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20-12-2003
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I'll give you that one...LOL (see the picture below)
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20-12-2003
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DEF NOT!!!!!

why should the "fashion house" die off just because the designer died...
i agree that almost 100% of the NEW designers never get the exact same thing/feeling/ce-petit-je-ne-sais-quoi back. but what would we do without them.
im thinking of CHANEL. i really think KARL is doing an excellent job to keep up with COCO herself.
as for the other houses, such as VERSACE : now thats real sad cause its not even a complete stranger who is designing but the MASTER'S own sister .. i mean she should have respected his style a bit more

anyway, i partially agree but only because i think the "new and young/ up and coming" designers should be given a chance to open their own emporium and maybe one day become the new DIOR ??!! who knows, would be nice

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20-12-2003
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Quote:
as for the other houses, such as VERSACE : now thats real sad cause its not even a complete stranger who is designing but the MASTER'S own sister .. i mean she should have respected his style a bit more
Leyla m.- what do you mean she should have respected Gianni more? She still creates sexy clothes with tons of prints, color and excess just like he did. No, she is not Gianni, but we cannot expect her to be. She is bringing something new to the house, more feminity that Gianni himself could not. Look at what Nicholas Ghesquier (i know i spelled it wrong) is doing at Balenciaga. It looks nothing like what Cristobal did, yet he gets rave reviews.
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20-12-2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by PrinceOfCats@Dec 20th, 2003 - 12:43 pm
If another designer, based on merit, gains the position then the house may live. But, as in the case of Versace, if the nearest relative takes the position then it's quite possible that aforesaid relative is not competent enough to live up to the name of the label.
I agree, if there's someone good enough then the House should by all means continue to make clothes
but if there isn't it seems like an insult to the previous designer and to the house itself to produce mediocre clothes
mcqueen is right in that regard. I think he did givenchy because it was a great opportunity, and I do think he was very good

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20-12-2003
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It was rather amusing when he said that the Marquis Hubert de Givenchy's contribution to fashion was irrelevant and then produced a terrible collection himself. (although I think he's a great guy in general)

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20-12-2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by ebowleg@Dec 21st, 2003 - 12:08 am
Quote:
as for the other houses, such as VERSACE* : now thats real sad cause its not even a complete stranger who is designing but the MASTER'S own sister* .. i mean she should have respected his style a bit more
Leyla m.- what do you mean she should have respected Gianni more? She still creates sexy clothes with tons of prints, color and excess just like he did. No, she is not Gianni, but we cannot expect her to be. She is bringing something new to the house, more feminity that Gianni himself could not. Look at what Nicholas Ghesquier (i know i spelled it wrong) is doing at Balenciaga. It looks nothing like what Cristobal did, yet he gets rave reviews.
i agree with you about the prints and sexiness...
but i find that donatella has brought a lot of trashiness too.
i never liked versace in the first place (talking of those medusa print shirts, etc) but at the time of GIANNI it was cool. donatella makes the label just look cheap

just my opinion

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20-12-2003
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Well McQueen has a good point. I mean, as Lena said, who can do Dior like M. Dior or Givenchy like Hubert? I mean look at YSL, Tom just keeps borrowing from the archives.. it's like better off dead right? The house is not being re-invented. Though if a designer can re-invent the house and make it right for today (or the time where he is designing) maybe it can work. Like Nicolas G. at Balenciaga. At least he never borrows from the archives, re-invents the house and makes it right for today but still in the spirit of the house.

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20-12-2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lena@Dec 20th, 2003 - 4:34 pm
worst thing regarding revamping old houses is that this makes it extremelly hard for new designers to succesfully launch new labels>> new original signature styles.
Yes I so agree with this, Lena!

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20-12-2003
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I can partly agree with you ighnitioned32, but I see it like this. YSL was never dead (the brand, not Yves himself) therefore it didn't need to be reinvented. Gucci for example was fading into time until Tom came in and revived a dying house. What Tom does at YSL is updates the items that made YSL what it was, but in his sexual, perverse way. I don't see many things there that YSL himself would ever send down the runway. As for Nicolas G. at Balenciaga, he doesn't borrow from archives, he borrows from other people. Case in point, he knocked off a design from a little known asian designer for a few print tops for the S/S 02 collection.

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20-12-2003
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First, Nicolas did not borrow from the "little known Asian designer" Wong. Before even Wong did those types of design the late Dutch designer Koos Van Der Accker did those and Nicolas said that himslef. Plus that was just one collection look at Fall 2001 or Sprign 2003.

Secondly that sexual perversiveness Tom does at YSL, is that true to M. Saint Laurent?

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20-12-2003
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You said it sister!

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20-12-2003
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it's all about marketing in my opinion.
if the house is gone when its designer dies, no further money would be made.
and if the new designers just go ahead and open their own houses, it's very likely that their labels wouldn't be recognized and be those "big names" until a long time after, and during this time, I don't think they can make good money.
sometimes fashion is just not only about fashion...

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20-12-2003
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I agree with the young designer aspects. I feel if it were that way,we would be allowed to see what they really feel strongly and passionately about in their works instead of being dictated and edited in a conglomerate fashion house. Having your own label has its freedom that none rarely get from designing certain houses at an early stage.

However,I think once you've got something going and then decide design for a House like McQueen did,perhaps that would be ok. But no pleasure is greater than putting your own blood,sweat and tears out there under your own name with no one having to prove to but yourself and your clients.

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21-12-2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissPurple@Dec 21st, 2003 - 7:08 am
it's all about marketing in my opinion.
if the house is gone when its designer dies, no further money would be made.
and if the new designers just go ahead and open their own houses, it's very likely that their labels wouldn't be recognized and be those "big names" until a long time after, and during this time, I don't think they can make good money.
sometimes fashion is just not only about fashion...
thats exactly why this is happening.. shareholders are just offering their investment a 'lifting' by bringing in 'new blood' for a transfusion, still this can only work up to one point, because in the long run i belive houses 'lose' their touch through the 'takes' of new designers on the brand's name.

who remembers what gucci style was like before tom ford? gucci is not 'gucci' since tom, it has become Tom's style, Tom Ford's Gucci ...
and now we should be prepared for someone else's take on the gucci style, this eventually dilutes the initial artistic direction of the label

as for McQueen, he has my respect but his take on Givenchy was so ...not Givenchy, as Nicolas G. work is so NOT in the spirit of the house of Balenciaga.

btw, the 'replacement' phenomenon first came around after the death of Dior, it was only because there were so many people investing at Dior that they could not possibly lose their money once ChristianD. passed away.
Still, Dior was never Dior again.. the house never reached its old glory.

and yes, fashion is absolutely not all about style and creative expression
this is a HUGE global business developing from shareholder's boards,
not from designer's ateliers.

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21-12-2003
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quoting lena:

Quote:
and yes, fashion is absolutely not all about style and creative expression
this is a HUGE global business developing from shareholder's boards,
not from designer's ateliers.
AMEN!

* * *

business should really be emphasized at fashion schools. in fact, it should be made mandatory. there'll be far less cases of "wasted talent" just because young graduates lack the necessary tools and know-how to start/sustain their fledgling ateliers. then of course it helps A LOT to know people.

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