How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Front Row / Designers and Collections
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
23-05-2004
  1
Mannikin
 
ignitioned32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,702
In your opinion should Haute Couture still exist? With designers from YSL to Oscar de la Renta at Pierre Balmain to Emanuel Ungaro stopping to show couture and designers like Yamamoto showing superb high-end ready-to-wear that can be called couture, should it really exist?

There are also other problems involved. Most women who buy couture don't have the time anymore for 3 fittings.

Is couture an outdated institution?

  Reply With Quote
 
23-05-2004
  2
backstage pass
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 569
IMO, the answer is yes...I personally look at couture as an escape from reality..I like the craft and what it is all about, minus the big shows (which I enjoy) there are really amazing works of art to be marveled at...

Quote:
There are also other problems involved. Most women who buy couture don't have the time anymore for 3 fittings.
I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic with this, but I will asume you are, so...

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  3
Mannikin
 
ignitioned32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,702
Quote:
Originally posted by ebowleg@May 23rd, 2004 - 9:16 am
IMO, the answer is yes...I personally look at couture as an escape from reality..I like the craft and what it is all about, minus the big shows (which I enjoy) there are really amazing works of art to be marveled at...
I appreciate your reply ebowleg , but I did not think you got my point. Sure you enjoy it, as I do, but should it still exist when you have designers like Yohji Yamamoto being able to do couture-like clothes and I wasn't being sarcastic. Emanuel Ungaro said it himself.

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  4
trendsetter
 
marc jacobs addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York, New York
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,278
in my opinion yes.

to me, couture is about imagination and artistic expression through their clothes. ready-to-wear is more like designing for consumers. you're bound to be a little more 'safe', for lack of a better word, because you know the buyers will be wearing them, and the clothes are directed more to the masses.

but couture, couture is different. its about having an image or idea in your head, and transcribing it into design, and clothes, and... fashion. its more personal, each piece specific to the buyer. i love couture, i hope it stays around and makes a comeback.

__________________
"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one,
Maybe one day you'll join us
And the world will live as one..."
-John Lennon
  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  5
Mannikin
 
ignitioned32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,702
Quote:
Originally posted by marc jacobs addict@May 23rd, 2004 - 9:21 am
to me, couture is about imagination and artistic expression through their clothes. ready-to-wear is more like designing for consumers. you're bound to be a little more 'safe', for lack of a better word, because you know the buyers will be wearing them, and the clothes are directed more to the masses.
Yamamoto and Kawakubo aren't like that. They both have imagination and esp. artistic expression through their clothes which are almost couture quality.

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  6
Mannikin
 
ignitioned32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,702
Quote:
Originally posted by marc jacobs addict@May 23rd, 2004 - 9:21 am
but couture, couture is different. its about having an image or idea in your head, and transcribing it into design, and clothes, and... fashion. its more personal, each piece specific to the buyer. i love couture, i hope it stays around and makes a comeback.
But should it still when some RTW designers can do the same thing w/o the hassles?

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  7
Mannikin
 
ignitioned32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,702
Quote:
Originally posted by Pierre Berge
ďIím sure others will follow. Iíve always said that the couture would die with Yves Saint Laurent. Now itís a domino effect. The couture has lost its raison díÍtre. Couture isnít art. Itís not meant to be hung in a closet like a painting. The women who wore couture no longer exist, the art de vivre that spawned couture has died.

ďIf houses such as Chanel and Dior one day get proof that they can sell as many bags and fragrances without a couture show, theyíll stop couture, too.Ē
Thought I'd add.

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  8
trendsetter
 
marc jacobs addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York, New York
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,278
ohhhhhh. i just read your post above ignitioned, sorry. i misinterpreted the question too.


hmm. okay, well, i'm still bias to couture. but even with designers like Yohji Yamamoto making collections that can be considered couture, i still think there should be seperate couture collections. yes, his designs are like couture, but that's just him. and obviously there are others like him whose designs lean to the couture side, but then there are designers like Chanel, Dior, Ungaro.. etc. who for the last couple of seasons have done both ready-to-wear and couture, and to take out the latter of the two, would leave only ready-to-wear. this is really just a lot of rambling, i apologize. bascially, i want the couture collection to stick around. yes, designers like Yohji Yamamoto will design their collections like couture. but, for instance, Chanel didnt, and doesnt. if they stop making their couture collections, then there is only their ready-to-wear, and the field of couture is dwindled down even more, until eventually there are only designers who design their rtw like couture.


rambling again. sorry. couture collections should stay because its just another diversifying factor that makes fashion the multi-faceted industry that it is. the more couture, the better, in my opinion.

__________________
"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one,
Maybe one day you'll join us
And the world will live as one..."
-John Lennon
  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  9
backstage pass
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 569
Quote:
But should it still when some RTW designers can do the same thing w/o the hassles?
I think so, there are many couture designers who are soley based out of Paris, and have no desire to do RTW, couture like or not...(This is a little off topic but )...And wouldn't designing couture like clothing still almost be like designing couture? Look at Ralph Rucci, his RTW line is made and priced like couture and still really only appeals to a select clientelle (with lots of $) just the couture...

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  10
V.I.P.
 
brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Gender: homme
Posts: 14,046
i really don't want haute couture to go anywhere

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  11
Mannikin
 
ignitioned32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,702
But say why diversify when there's no difference? Also what do you say to Berge's comments on couture?


PS I'll give my opinion later.

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  12
Mannikin
 
ignitioned32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,702
PS Among alot of fashion circles this has been long debated esp. after the departure of Saint Laurent. So if anyone can post articles please do.

  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  13
trendsetter
 
marc jacobs addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York, New York
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,278
Quote:
Originally posted by ignitioned32+May 23rd, 2004 - 9:30 am--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ignitioned32 @ May 23rd, 2004 - 9:30 am)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pierre Berge
ďIím sure others will follow. Iíve always said that the couture would die with Yves Saint Laurent. Now itís a domino effect. The couture has lost its raison díÍtre. Couture isnít art. Itís not meant to be hung in a closet like a painting. The women who wore couture no longer exist, the art de vivre that spawned couture has died.

ďIf houses such as Chanel and Dior one day get proof that they can sell as many bags and fragrances without a couture show, theyíll stop couture, too.Ē
Thought I'd add. [/b][/quote]
interesting. didnt see that one before.

obviously he is right, or right in some aspects. more and more people just arent buying couture, so the designers will soon enough stop designing them, and the latter quote about Chanel and Dior, in my opinion, is right as well. they're companies, their main goal is to make a profit. if they can do that and cut out the cost of couture, i'm sure they'd do it.

but nonetheless, I STILL WANT MY COUTURE!

from a marketing point, i can understand why a design house would stop it. it costs a lot of money, and time. the clientele who buy couture is rapidly diminishing. other couture houses are stopping, follow the trend.

however, even though i do not have the money to buy couture despite however hard i may wish for a vintage ysl dress to appear at my doorstep, i still like to know its around. i like that couture is personal. i like thats its intricate. i still want it around. no doubt about it. but i am beginning to understand why the exec's of companies want to cut it out, which is a shame.

__________________
"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one,
Maybe one day you'll join us
And the world will live as one..."
-John Lennon
  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  14
trendsetter
 
marc jacobs addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York, New York
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,278
found an article online from april 2002. i didnt have time to read the whole thing because i have to go. so if someone could read it an summarize it, because its long, that would be fabulous!

Quote:
Crazy Couture

Is haute couture dead?

That was the question widely asked when the contemporary world's greatest fashion designer, Yves Saint Laurent, announced his retirement in January.

They asked the same question in 1957 when his mentor, Christian Dior, died. Whether prompted by a slump in oil prices, the rise of grunge or a highprofile, zone-out such as Saint Laurent's, they've been asking it ever since.

The fact is that the most elite arm of the fashion industry has survived all the social changes of the past century, although on a much smaller scale with only some 2000 clients when once there were 15,000. But the signs are that it will continue to survive. It may even be growing.

Most "designer fashion'' is ready-towear, expensive, famous-label clothes that you buy off the peg in nominated shops. Yves Saint Laurent Rive Gauche is ready-to-wear; you can buy it at the Rive Gauche boutique in David Jones.

Yves Saint Laurent Haute Couture, on the other hand, is entirely made-to-measure clothing, every stitch done by hand and requiring three to six fittings, after introduction (good luck), at the Paris salons permitted to use the haute-couture designation.

Any up-market dressmaker from Brisbane to Birmingham can style themselves a "couturier''. But, to the French, who take such things very seriously, the term "haute couture'' is as specific as the word "champagne'' (as Australian winemakers know all too well). The appellation is protected by law and applies only to houses that belong to the Chambre Syndicale de la Couture Parisienne, a body with stringent membership conditions, which was created in 1868 by the first great couturier, Charles Frederick Worth.

"The couture'', as the fashionisti call it, has its own elegant fashion weeks each January and July in Paris, quite separate from the razzamatazz readytowear collections each March and October, although some of the big names (Chanel, Dior, Givenchy, Lacroix) appear on both schedules.

Haute-couture shows are the public face of an elite, rarefied world of the very rich, who can afford $100,000 and up (way up) for suits and evening dresses, and the very famous.

Extravagant outfits that make it on to the evening news have the same role to play in fashion as concept cars and motor show specials do in the automotive industry. They will never be made and worn in real life; they were never meant to be. The fashion houses make them because they can. Just like the Ferrari workshop, the haute couture is a laboratory of creativity for the whole fashion food chain, a training ground and, increasingly, a showcase for young talent in the new wave of ``cool couture'', as well as an international billboard for the global luxury brands to sell their dream.

However, YSL's decision to stand down is a neat illustration of the shift of emphasis now taking place in high fashion. The first designer to treat haute couture and ready-to-wear as equally important, Yves Saint Laurent invented the idea of the upscale ready-to-wear boutique in the late 1960s, when he opened his first walk-in Rive Gauche store on the racier, younger Left Bank of the Seine.

The location itself was a statement of its difference from haute couture (which is by appointment only).That boutique was the young designer's brilliant response to the Mary Quant level of British fashion, which was seriously threatening the old order with its fast-paced, high-trend clothes sold in funky environments. All the other great couture houses swiftly followed suit, creating ready-to-wear high fashion as we now know it.

Saint Laurent's three-stage retirement began in 1999 when he and his business partner sold the ready-to-wear, cosmetics and perfume side of the business to the Italian Gucci group, where it is now designed by Tom Ford.

Saint Laurent carried on designing the couture collections. Ford's ready-to-wear collections are big news in the fashion world, but when Saint Laurent announced his complete retirement - the second stage - and showed his final haute couture collection in January, it was an event worthy of comment in news media around the world.

Last month, it was announced that the business would close forever - the final stage.

So, when the exquisite, handmade suits and evening dresses from January's collection are delivered to Saint Laurent's couture clients in time for the northern summer's social seasons at Chantilly, Glyndebourne and Palm Beach (Florida), they will be the last ones ever to bear the label. Fin.

Far from signalling that haute couture is on the way out, however, it could well be the last flourish of Saint Laurent, fashion visionary. For instead of selling his priceless name, which could be devalued in the hands of a lesser designer, Saint Laurent and his business partners have sold the nuts and bolts of the couture atelier to the French fashion firm SLPB Prestige Services.

Under this arrangement, the YSL Haute Couture name will go but the services, staff and expertise of the atelier will remain intact, operating as a consultancy to fashion houses wishing to open or develop a haute couture atelier, alongside their ready-to-wear operations.

One way to interpret this move is that YSL is taking the longer view - that the highest level of the fashion arts may be poised for a revival, in which case his team's rare skills will be in high demand.

As great names like his disappear from the haute couture schedules, a batch of new ones appears.

One of these is Jean Paul Gaultier, who, in 1997, started a couture atelier alongside his already successful ready-to-wear labels. Didier Grumbach, president of the body that governs Paris fashion, had decided that the only way to keep it alive was to attract exciting new names to it. Gaultier has certainly lived up to his expectations, producing some of the most beautiful and relevant couture of recent seasons.

Far from being irrelevant to most of the shopping public, it seems that haute couture has several new roles to play in the broader fashion system, not only confirming and promoting the luxury status of brands but also fostering new talent.

Another increasingly important role is the opportunity couture provides for well-heeled consumers to find unique clothing in a mass-produced, globally marketed world. It's the same impulse - the search for something different - that has created the current vogue for vintage clothes, particularly old couture pieces.

By going to one of the younger, new, ``cool'' couturiers, who make dresses for $6000, as opposed to the six figures charged by the big names, the cashed-up fashion victim can find virtually the same values of quality and uniqueness that appeal in vintage couture, but which actually fit and don't smell funny.

The sheer price of designer clothing these days is another reason why the lower rungs of couture are beginning to attract a new following. Take these examples, which are in stores now. An embroidered coat from Louis Vuitton will cost you nearly $45,000; a ``chainmail and patchwork'' top by the label of the moment, Balenciaga, $10,000; bikini bottoms by SportMax, $1800; a sequined T-shirt from Dior, $1500.

Please note, these are all ready-to-wear prices. Not a single stitch or tuck has been specially fitted and adjusted for the customer and there is no guarantee that five other women won't turn up at the same party wearing the same piece, which is another service the haute couture salons provide, keeping precise notes on clients' records of who else in their particular social milieu has ordered what.

Of course, this all raises the question: why has ready-to-wear become so expensive? There are two reasons: to maintain the luxury mystique and to beat off the relentless chain-store copyists.

These days, hot new trends are in the stores just a few weeks after the fashion shows, sometimes even before they are in the shops of the designers who came up with them.

Which is why the pret-a-porter collections appear to have become more reliant on such complex elements as elaborate embroidery or exquisite fabrics, creating a new rung on the fashion ladder, described as ``demi-couture'', with the prices to match.

This demi-couture ready-to-wear is helping to keep the luxury brand mystique in place, but at $45,000 for an off-the-peg coat, those who can afford it are starting to ask themselves: why not have the real thing?

So perhaps we can finally answer the question: is couture dead? Au contraire, it's being reborn.

__________________
"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one,
Maybe one day you'll join us
And the world will live as one..."
-John Lennon
  Reply With Quote
23-05-2004
  15
etre soi-meme
 
Lena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
Gender: femme
Posts: 23,965
i like couture but i have to agree, it does look a bit old-fashioned and dated, it also seems that less women are buying it or have anywhere to wear their couture at.

should the couture week be canceled?
NO. I think it should transform into something fresh, dedicated to one off piece collections by rising fashion stars and the few Couture Houses that insist -and can invest in - taking out Couture Collections.

My fave Couture designer of late is -by far- Ralf Rucci. He's a great master of style, i think he's been terribly underestimated, maybe because he's American Its a shame, he's brilliant with details and workmanship, but most just look out for the fireworks in Couture, unfortunately -and mainly due to Galliano- workmanship and style seem to come in second place and this LEADS couture's 'death'. Some people mix Spectacle and Workmanship, sad.

As for Yohji, he never really did couture, he just decided to switch his normal RTW collection presentation earlier than all the other fashon Houses, thats all, dont get misleaded by him entering Couture Week scedule with PAP collections

  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
couture, debate, decade, exist, long
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:34 PM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. ©2014 All rights reserved.