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03-10-2012
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army of lovers
 
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This collection didn't deliver on the hype. Those suits he's known for didn't look fresh and the rest is just YSL that an in house team could have designed.

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03-10-2012
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Oppose the black summer of 13?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatherAnne View Post
Thank you! I was just coming here to say the same thing. He wouldn't be the first designer to end up in a looney bin, but perhaps the craziest.
Is he still (t)wittering on? I'm beginning to think his meds are off. Or something. So, yeah, rock and roll. Egos. I don't know enough about Yves to be sure that Berge let him have his head with controversy but I think perhaps he did - ie the nude advertising shots in the mid 70's? It's like an update of use of controversial publicity for publicities sake. And observe ie how we're rolling on this thread. It's in the houses PR DNA? On the update: The sort of stuff that never hurts Kate Moss, that just fuels the cool rock and roll legend.

But wait. Three things.

1) For Kate, it is kinda different to the egomaniacal bullying of a respected, and respectable, lady critic. Kate's transgression in 2005 hurt nobody and was kinda funny, harmless really. And we sort of like Kate.

2) Hedi can say with justification that we critics might not know him as a person. And ok, no such thing a bad publicity. But dude, you are spreading an aura. And it's black. Black I tell you. Just like your collection.

3 Therein, potentially, lies the downside risk. Yes there is a hell of a lot of black around for SS13. But it's a strange proposal isn't it? Don't we in fact, in hot weather, want to feel a sunnier vibe? Give off a lighter more positive aura? Couldn't the proposal for a black summer fall wholly flat on it's face - if too many people with some influence, who are feeling disrespected, just ignore black and promote absolutely anything else.

It is of note with this thought that I believe, generally, those hands which are fed by the PPR machine in advertising revenue - ie Conde Nast etc are not in the anti-Hedi camp. At least not openly. More it's the NewYorkTimes, The Times, The Telegraph (more mutedly) and online presences. And these publications are not running visuals - eds or glossy page ads so are freer to speak as they find. But. They are not going to, much, control the visual landscape of the season's feel in imagery. It will, moreso, be what those mainstream publications put out, Conde Nast etc.

PPR (and Hedi) know this. They think they can fuel controversy in the short term then blow the season their way with influence over eds etc, the whole scopic landscape of the season - through that business pull - their advertising budgets. It's all just **** waving in the end. Business. Boys and their toys. How are the March issues going to feel with the weight of 50 odd
pages of high power ads. Pulled visually in some part at least by PPR. Will Hedi be shooting the YSL campaigns. I guess he will - they've given him total control seemingly. Loose Cannon. But cannon nevertheless. Seems he just can't stop the bullets(****) flying out. Ok takes one to know one

But girls - and boys - who now find Hedi and/or the whole manipulation of da industry by big business unpalateable. It's simple. Just reject the 'black summer of 13' proposal. In all it's forms. Whatever you like, any vibe - sunny sweet sexy but still rocks, minimal sexy, spiritual, whatever - just not black. You can start by filterng that through your top tens, into what trends might be identified, what editorials and campaigns you find to be derigeur for the season, how you street style yourself, everything. If you like? If that's the way you're feeling? Anti-blacksummer. Just an idea


Last edited by MulletProof; 03-10-2012 at 07:43 PM. Reason: tfs guidelines.
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03-10-2012
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to be honest,hedi seems threatened by raf simons. raf's talent...his range,his versatility as a designer. otherwise why would he have taken what cathy said so personally? raf never did that when hedi was getting all the attention never mind the ignorant credit. and trust me,there was never a moment when raf simons wasn't faced with hedi slimane comparisons in those years. maybe with this penultimate debut at YSL,in that,he's fearful people will begin to see how much of a one-trick pony he really is. i certainly saw nothing in this debut that would stand it apart from anything he did at dior homme only that it was actually on women.

anyway,i was over him long before this instance. big ball of overrated hype. and this twitter rant has diminished any lingering respect i had for him.


Last edited by Scott; 03-10-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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03-10-2012
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This all is so sad and so pathetic. Why bother with a dead house? In less than three days (give or take a few months for the name change) Slimane has destroyed and probably alienated a lot of customers and a lot of peoples who hold control in this industry...YSL went from chic to bleak, real fast...

All I know is that I REALLY miss Stefano Pilati and somewhere out there, you know he is having a good laugh. Maybe Stefano can send an open letter to Slimane on how to work YSL...

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This tango pains me, especially since I didn't think the collection was all that bad.

I think we all know about the depths of infamy an artist's temperament can reach. YSL's relationship with the press and addiction to applause is also well noted. Nonetheless, I felt Slimane's response, especially as he is representing a house built on appreciating and nourishing a woman's choice (even responsibility) to be strong and outspoken was damn near misogynistic. How could this man possibly love women, and I mean with a capital W? The aesthetic he paraded was one of weakness, of girls who looked like little boys, of extremeness masquerading as sophistication, which is fine, no surprise there.

But to single out a journalist, to disqualify her based on her appearance, to suggest that she lacks the impartialness a newspaper requires which wouldn't matter since a newspaper lacks the style gravitas needed to even review a fashion show, all simply because she refused to drink the Kool-Aid based on what she was forced to review online because she wasn't invited ...

This is not Yves. This is not the house that he built. Where is the love, where is the generosity of spirit, the insight and forward thinking manner, the almost insane dedication to craft, to joie de vivre, to energy? If Mr. Slimane thinks that Yves Saint Laurent was all about some sheer kaftans, a hat, one black model and ranting to the press then he's not only unfit to run one of the most historic houses in the history of fashion, he's unfit to design anything. You can't play the game if you haven't done your homework, if you don't understand that signing a contract doesn't make you a master, especially when it isn't even your house to begin with.

Ms. Horyn is more than qualified to express her opinions about womenswear and I'm surprised that anyone would else would be surprised that she would favor modernity, comfort, individuality, authenticity since these are the marks of great design in general and of the house Yves built in particular. Whether one is designing cars or toothbrushes, criticism is involved, is part of the process. To now call that bullying is downright worrying.

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03-10-2012
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After reading all these reviews and seeing what has happened this past few days concerning the house of YSL, I am very sad but not surprised.

Here's my theory on the situation at YSL. It is only a theory so please don't believe it as absolute fact. ( I have played a little bit of fashion detective/investigator/conspiracy theorist here )

When Tom Ford was at the helm, we all know how Berge and Saint Laurent felt about him. I could definitely understand their perception towards his collections because while it was clear that Tom Ford had talent, it seemed he cared more about himself than what the brand represented. But, initially, Ford and Berge were on good terms. Things started changing once YSL started doing better financially (well according to Tom Ford in that famous interview). Hmm, weird.

When Pilati took over, Berge attended his first collection and praised it immensely (despite it being butchered by almost everyone)[style.com's video on the collection contains Berge's comments]. Berge kept attending Pilati's shows till S/S 2008, the collection inspired by celestial bodies and planets (the collection that made me fall in love with Pilati's work and fashion in general). Berge liked that collection so much that he lent out the Foundation Pierre Berge/Yves Saint Laurent headquarters to Pilati so that he could shoot Kate Moss for the Manifesto campaign (I really miss that medium of marketing!). After F/W 2008, we all know that Mr Saint Laurent sadly died. Pilati attended the funeral and everything was still fine with Berge at the time. Once YSL got back into the black in late 2008 early 09 (after over 10 years of losses), Berge started his tantrums with Pilati by stating that he didn't want the YSL brand to exist any more and excluded Pilati from being invited to view the Foundation Pierre Berge/Yves Saint Laurent exhibition at the Petit palais privately (I heard he invited other designers - not sure how true though). From what I know, Pilati attended as a guest. I found this very strange. Not long after wards, the rumours started. This obviously made it hard for Pilati to concentrate and he delivered two not so great collections (S/S 2010 and F/W 2010). Despite this, Catherine Deneuve, Loulou de la Falaise and even Betty Catroux kept showing their support to him by attending his shows.

So my conspiracy theory is this: could Pierre Berge have initially liked Pilati only to warm himself up to François-Henri Pinault and get him to eventually boot Pilati out so that he could be replaced by his protégée, Slimane? because, I don't understand how you would all of a sudden, hate someone for no justifiable reason. From F/W 2007, Pilati had a more austere approach to YSL which was his own interpretation of the brands codes. So it wasn't as if Pilati did any collection during that period that swayed away completely from YSL's legacy. More interesting is why all this hate started developing when the brand started making money again. It makes more sense now that Mr Berge is in full support of the name change (I cannot understand why anyone would support a fix on something that is not broken; except you actually want it broken). If Pilati had done it, or worse still, Ford, neither of them would have gotten away with it, at least from Pierre Berge. So for Mr Berge to state that "This house is in safe hands at last, after being so roughly handled for more than 10 years by Tom Ford and Stefano Pilati. Saved at last by someone who has an immense talent", it just shows how ungrateful a man he is especially to Pilati and this is supposed to be a house built on love.

Pilati might not have gotten everything right but YSL is a very difficult house to design for. When Pilati was at his worst, he still delivered something interesting whether it was through the materials, the cut or its weirdness. It was frequently complained that his work was austere, tough and too elegant but Mr Saint Laurent glorified women and was all about colour. I disagree a lot with this. My reason is; YSL did everything. From tuxedo's to very pretty stuff (I remember seeing a video of Helmut Newton being upset that YSL was making too much pretty stuff during the early 90s). In reality, I think it is hard to put a definite aesthetic to the YSL brand. One thing I know is that YSL stood strongly for elegance and the empowerment of women. So I also find it strange that Berge loves this collection so much when it reminds me more of Tom Ford's work for YSL and Gucci (and Rachel Zoe) than even Mr Saint Laurent himself.

At the end of the day, while it is too early too judge, I feel more damage has been done to the brand than any good. Alienating the current customers by making clothes that are for only really young people (aren't there too many brands to cater for this?) who have so much money to spend makes me feel really bad. I have tried to like Hedi. I have really tried, but all this is too much to take in if you love this brand and what it stands for. The house seems cursed to me. When things began to go very well, they have already began the process of destroying it.

Conspiracy theory and thoughts over

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03-10-2012
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^^^ I wouldn't take issue with your flow at all there Ogepma. Excellent exposition. Being respectful here, to the legend (albeit slightly tainted - the insider trading of 1992) that is Berge, it was a very true partnership, him and Yves, - Seniors, cough, can tend to get a bit, well, wissened (sp) and prone to flights of fancy. As you say he fell in and out of love with Pilati. The House is, as I was eluding to, marked by dramas. So there's every possibility he could fall out of love with Slimane. Rather quickly. Like it seems many have. I'm assuming Berge still has some sort of leverage - in the politics of the house? It would seem that way. Like a sort of (perhaps only romantic) casting couch type of way. Not quite sure how that works in with the Pinaults and their beancounting. What one does have to give Berge in the history of the House is that in the heyday especially he did play a neat business foil to Yves creativity etc. An effective team nobody can deny. But always drama. I saw a v.good documentary a while back. But now - in fact more of a spent force than appears?

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03-10-2012
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The new pieces online are way overpriced...

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The whole situation is very amusing for a very boring season...Hedi is acting like a little kid...

But who knows, its seems designers really can't take it anymore...look at other designers, Oscar de la Renta open letter to Cathy, Christopher Deancarn (sp?) depression and no show for his last collection, Tom Ford who now refuses to show openly and no personal pictures allowed, Alaia presents collections when he wants. I think we will see a lot more designers responding back to critics in the future. Of course I'm not defending Hedi but something is going on...


Last edited by lemeray; 03-10-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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04-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemeray View Post
The whole situation is very amusing for a very boring season...Hedi is acting like a little kid...

But who knows, its seems designers really can't take it anymore...look at other designers, Oscar de la Renta open letter to Cathy, Christopher Deancarn (sp?) depression and no show for his last collection, Tom Ford who now refuses to show openly and no personal pictures allowed, Alaia presents collections when he wants. I think we will see a lot more designers responding back to critics in the future. Of course I'm not defending Hedi but something is going on...
Ok some of this is rehearsed elsewhere but, drawing strands, indulge me. Here goes...

Notice anything - genderwise? - Oh you forgot, I have to say, John (Galliano) and Lee ([Alexander]McQueen). In the recent pantheon of fashion 'can't take it / anymore' have to add those two. Though in that I bear no mallice at all - especially to family and friends/colleagues of Lee.

So, yes, all men. The fashion godesses, or to become - Miuccia, Rei, Phoebe, Vivienne, , I've forgotten some - please feel free to add. They sail on. Handle their dramas. not crumble. The strong independent woman feminism has been rightly delivering.

But pity we poor men. We are wrecks. I will make a distinction between seemingly two classes of male designer crisis. With Christophe (Decarnin), Lee (McQueen) and John (Galliano) the trigger seemed to be loss of a mentor or partner. Downhill trajectories set in after respectively - Emmanuelle Alt jumped ship; Isabella Blow passed away; Stephen Jones passed away. In many ways the last is the saddest - I think Naomi would vouch for that - it's her I picked it up from in her commentary on the sublimely beautiful, I think it was SS09 collection - The Coney Island inspired. With the, I think it was that season, the Fairground ride set.aNYWAY...

With Hedi and Tom I see a different class of, well here it's weakness. It's on the one hand oversensitivity to criticism. Poor lambs. But that's bound up too with cultivating a fawning cult of worship around their egos. They prefer, in actual fact, to remain in a closed elite of fawners. They struggle with the white heat of democratic critique as is now the reality of live-streaming/blogging/netdemocracy fashion. They both present plenty see-through offerings in their womenswear but, I think, the root of it might be a fear that people can see through them. Lucky lookers whole stole a march with charm and, along with Marc Jacobs, hypnotised a broker and banged a buck.

Before I get too off track - back to the thrust - men? Independent fashion femmes sailing to glory, the guys, some of them - on one critical list or another. Feminism has helped women be strong - and rightly so. But look down on the floor a second at us poor men. We seem all over the place - psychological and emotional wrecks to a man. Well, sorry not all men - Pilati, Ghesquiere, Owens, Pugh, etc all seem ok - but of the crisis ridden list - can we think of a woman to add.? The crisis now is men. We don't want to weaken women, but we do need, it seems, to strengthen men?

btw - i don'tshare that it's a boring season designwise. I think, I've yet to call out boring on any season. Fashion is alive and kicking. It's visual and it's sexy. So it's now.


Last edited by Tentacl Ventricl; 04-10-2012 at 12:13 AM.
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04-10-2012
  401
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I looked at new YSL bags and accessories, which are giant profit sources for a Fashion label. To be honest, they are quite disappointing comparing with the past items. If they can't sell bags well, it is not far to see that child gets fired again, no need to say couture.

Hiring a kid and giving him full control is the biggest mistake that Pinault has ever made. LVMH is notorious, but the CEO is smarter on picking people.

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04-10-2012
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well it's quite obvious this is a major change in artistic direction. ysl's former customer base is going to feel alienated and turn elsewhere...hedi followers that wouldn't be caught dead wearing pilati's work are going to flock towards it.. it's kind of the same at dior with the galliano/raf transition which is even more extreme. it's a delicate decision for these houses in that the mainstream opinion is initially going to turn their backs at this less "accessible" offering, and the customer demographics are also at 180 degrees polar opposites. i'm personally very content with the choices made, these houses needed a shake-up and to me hedi & raf have already proven in the past at dior & jil to be up to the task.. now we'll have to see if they withold the obvious increased pressure of this rivalry. i'm very very surprised of hedi's reaction, not at all his style..all i can assume is living outside the fashion bubble in LA might have unshielded him from such internet/media scrutiny.. he's human after all (daft punk fans will understand )


Last edited by Izreal; 04-10-2012 at 05:30 AM.
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04-10-2012
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^ it's a first look, half the items aren't presented or even made yet, there will be a much wider range offered in january... what is for sure is that the old pilati style isn't coming back, that's what usually happens when a different aesthetic designer comes in, if you are disappointed, go buy now what is currently in store and follow pilati's next move. don't worry about YSL profits, hedi followers which include the biggest music & hollywood trendsetters will flock like sheep to this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemeray View Post
The new pieces online are way overpriced...
oh cmon we are talking high-end luxury here, it doesn't rhyme with affordable... please go take a look at balmain prices if you think this is overpriced!!!

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04-10-2012
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Of course I know they are going to be expensive and I am will to pay, but the previous prices were lower with a lot more detail going on with the design etc

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04-10-2012
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well unfortunately in life..things tend to always move upwards in price, rarely the opposite! as far as "more detail going on with the design" once again this is an aesthetic concern, hedi is notorious for his minimalism approach which some may confuse with "simple" but really it means "less is more" conceptually, also i wouldn't be surprised if the quality is actually superior to what was offered previously, especially in the jewelry where i've noticed a lot of noble materials employed where fashion brands usually cheap out in this department..

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