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04-10-2012
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Not sure how long this thread can continue considering that the discussion has veered away from the actual collection, but I hardly sympathize with Cathy Horyn and find what Slimane said about her to be quite right. What Slimane is responding to is not just Horyn's negative review but her bias, which he perceives to be deep-rooted and consistent. And Horyn herself is at fault for feuding such a perception--mere weeks ago she wrote about the artistic rivalry between Simons and Slimane, which many TFSers dismissed as manufactured to sell newspapers. Well, she's delivered her verdict now, though who'd win is a foregone conclusion given her well-documented and obvious bias towards Simons. This is how a writer creates bad drama. As an observer, I do think she enjoys the power she has and is guilty of abusing it to promote her favorites.

And her review of the actual collection is unprofessionally written. A writer who devotes half of her piece to explain or vent why she was banned reeks of self-aggrandizement. And I strongly feel that she downplayed why her criticism provoked Slimane, which has the effect of making him look irrational. That she did not use catty language did not make her better, in my opinion. She knows full well that if she does that in the capacity of a journalist she'd be fired immediately and hence loses her only outlet to be heard. So she got crafty. The final line in her review about how YSL's competitors are having a terrific season proves my point. I get the impression that she likes grading and ranking designers more than writing about their work.

Meanwhile, I do find Slimane's reaction to be catty but kind of delicious. I find more and more that the public expects public figures to exhibit no negative emotions when under personal attack, which is unnatural. I disagree that his expression of anger should damage his standing in the industry, which hails Naomi Campbell as one of the greatest personalities afterall.


Last edited by LibertyRose; 04-10-2012 at 09:16 PM.
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04-10-2012
  422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
What makes you think the PR team didn't write that hot mess? I suspect Hedi has extended his 'streetcasting' beyond models to PR now ... this goes so far beyond unprofessional that it's hard to even characterize it. Hedi & co. make Oscar look like an eminence grise ...
i hadn't looked at it this way. I guess my work experience with big companies doesn't go as far as having a guy work under a huge company being given all this freedom, even in terms of pr. It would make sense he picked his own pr team. Still, it makes look PPR as an amateur start-up. it's so embarassing.

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05-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyRose View Post
Not sure how long this thread can continue considering that the discussion has veered away from the actual collection, but I hardly sympathize with Cathy Horyn and find what Slimane said about her to be quite right. What Slimane is responding to is not just Horyn's negative review but her bias, which he perceives to be deep-rooted and consistent. And Horyn herself is at fault for feuding such a perception--mere weeks ago she wrote about the artistic rivalry between Simons and Slimane, which many TFSers dismissed as manufactured to sell newspapers. Well, she's delivered her verdict now, though who'd win is a foregone conclusion given her well-documented and obvious bias towards Simons. This is how a writer creates bad drama. As an observer, I do think she enjoys the power she has and is guilty of abusing it to promote her favorites.

And her review of the actual collection is unprofessionally written. A writer who devotes half of her piece to explain or vent why she was banned reeks of self-aggrandizement. And I strongly feel that she downplayed why her criticism provoked Slimane, which has the effect of making him look irrational. That she did not use catty language did not make her better, in my opinion. She knows full well that if she does that in the capacity of a journalist she'd be fired immediately and hence loses her only outlet to be heard. So she got crafty. The final line in her review about how YSL's competitors are having a terrific season proves my point. I get the impression that she likes grading and ranking designers more than writing about their work.

Meanwhile, I do find Slimane's reaction to be catty but kind of delicious. I find more and more that the public expects public figures to exhibit no negative emotions when under personal attack, which is unnatural. I disagree that his expression of anger should damage his standing in the industry, which hails Naomi Campbell as one of the greatest personalities afterall.
in the actual review of the collection there was only one sentence written about her not being invited.
the piece you're referring to is an article on her blog and i think should be approached very differently, she even used to put cake recipes on it.

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05-10-2012
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interesting perspective LibertyRose, i guess there are always two sides of a story in this type of situation... I was surprised by Hedi's reaction as it isn't his style but I guess it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's also interesting the Twitter phenomena has brought a lot of drama & controversy lately, just recently France's First Lady Valerie Trierweiler (which incidentally sat front row next to PB at the show) was caught up in a massive scandal when she tweeted against the President's ex-wife. I'm sure there are a million other examples around the world.. Twitter seems to really be a PR nightmare, even though it gives people unfiltered freedom of expression...for better or for worst.. anyways yes this is slightly off-topic yet the community seems more interested in this feud then the actual collection...wonder if that means anything..

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05-10-2012
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^ Probably that the collection isn't that interesting. But really, in all the time I've been following fashion, this is the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen a designer do in a professional context, so it's naturally going to garner attention.
um...i think what galliano did makes this look like kindergarden play, professional context or not... truth is people love a good drama to gossip about.. especially in fashion. like i said though this type of "pr failure" happens everyday thanks to twitter/blogosphere.. as far as the "claim" to who invented what... i think it's fair to say hedi can definitely be considered having a major role in the development of the skinny movement, as i said elsewhere you'd be amazed the number of parisian high street labels that popped up over night completely jacking his whole DH aesthetic (kooples,sandro,aprill77..). it also seems obvious the two protagonists have a long-winded feud history... zzz

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05-10-2012
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as someone who is studying in the field marketing (think promotions and public relations) this is seriously what we have been taught not to do. a public relations team is to make friends, not enemies. the way the team has handled this new Saint Laurent is just astonishing.

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05-10-2012
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Quote:
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um...i think what galliano did makes this look like kindergarden play, professional context or not... truth is people love a good drama to gossip about.. especially in fashion. like i said though this type of "pr failure" happens everyday thanks to twitter/blogosphere.. as far as the "claim" to who invented what... i think it's fair to say hedi can definitely be considered having a major role in the development of the skinny movement, as i said elsewhere you'd be amazed the number of parisian high street labels that popped up over night completely jacking his whole DH aesthetic (kooples,sandro,aprill77..). it also seems obvious the two protagonists have a long-winded feud history... zzz
Well, of course the Galliano incident was the reason I specified professional context. Duh, right? That was officially a crime ... this is only a crime against common sense.

He may not believe he owes anything to Raf ... but believing you invented something and actually having done so are two different things.

The difference between the usual Twitter idiocy / "PR failure" and this is that IMO this was a PR initiative. That's what truly makes it a massive fail for me. And I don't see how this doesn't color the collection and the label. Is it just me who cares who's standing behind the clothes? I think about all of that when I'm making a buying decision. Right now it would take a lot to get me to buy YSL (or whatever the hell it's called).

Whoever advanced the theory that Pierre's soul child is being given enough rope to hang himself just might be a genius ...

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06-10-2012
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90% of the new collection online is sold out or join the waiting list...I'm sure he will last longer than 2-3 seasons...it's all about the money.

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06-10-2012
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Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
Well, of course the Galliano incident was the reason I specified professional context. Duh, right? That was officially a crime ... this is only a crime against common sense. [...]
The difference between the usual Twitter idiocy / "PR failure" and this is that IMO this was a PR initiative.
I'm not so sure.. which is why even though the gravity isn't of the same magnitude i put this in the same box as the Galliano incident. He posted that comment on Twitter, not in a magazine interview, not at a press conference, not on YSL's site, not even on his blog... the style it's written in is very opposed to his usual calm, lucid and professional public demeaner, which is why i'm pretty sure it's just a spontaneous twitter goof...might even get deleted who knows.. there is simply no way any PR team in their right mind would come up with such an absurd tactic..

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Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
He may not believe he owes anything to Raf ... but believing you invented something and actually having done so are two different things.
is there actually a quote of him saying this? because it seems to me cathy horyn is kind of leading us into thinking so to reinforce her own biased agenda..

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06-10-2012
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^ I certainly wouldn't argue that the PR team is in their right mind, but they all appear to me to be of one mind there at the moment, and this is of a piece with their other PR actions and communications. Who knows ... what seems certain is there are some huge egos in the house right now.

My understanding is they had a private conversation about this, in which case there wouldn't be quotes. I think recent actions indicate between the two of them who has the upper hand in terms of rationality ...

My view is that the world is like one giant lab, we are all connected, and two creatives who are working on the same thing (i.e., fashion) aren't truly doing so independently. So I think Cathy is right, even if Hedi had never seen or heard of Raf's work.

It will be interesting to me, if this collection represents the best the designer can do, whether it will remain commercially viable for many years. I guess there's a huge and diverse archive, and perhaps different parts of it can be retread ad infinitum.

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06-10-2012
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i don't care much for speculation but if you look at Hedi's history at DH (7 years) i find he is one of the most consistent designers out there, he was the one who called it quits at the height of his glory... for sure we haven't seen the full potential yet. as far as commercial success i'd almost guarantee it, most of the current collection put up on pre-order less then a week ago is practically sold out including uber-expensive items, his followers are amongst the biggest (and richest) celebs so i wouldn't worry too much about that.. balmain are probably pretty nervous though..

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06-10-2012
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hedi just deleted the tweets

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06-10-2012
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^ i knew they wouldn't last

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06-10-2012
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too bad for him and the pr team, the internet doesn't forget. what's done is done!

on the other issues re: his stay at the house, i don't think he's going anywhere for a near future. the hype will live long, and his collections (given they're not all the same, but only time will tell) will sell like crazy. I hate what he delivered here but i'm looking forward to see his next move, desining-wise.

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06-10-2012
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Seriously...to get all petulant over who first started designing skinny suits?? It's not like it's inventing the Theory of Relativity....

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