How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Front Row / Designers and Collections
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
11-01-2004
  31
kit
tfs star
 
kit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stalybridge , Gr.Manchester , North UK .
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,521
HI ALL

For all you Jil Sander fans out there , take a look at this article .


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/st...1118763,00.html


I think it says it all !!!


Regards KIT

  Reply With Quote
 
11-01-2004
  32
Naturellement pulpeuse
 
PrinceOfCats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The 'other' bit of the south of France
Gender: femme
Posts: 10,171
That's weird, Kit! I was just about to post the same article but then I couldn't be bothered...

I always thought Giorgio Armani did it better than Jil though...

__________________
-Jamais fille chaste n'a lu de romans
  Reply With Quote
11-01-2004
  33
kit
tfs star
 
kit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stalybridge , Gr.Manchester , North UK .
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally posted by PrinceOfCats@Jan 11th, 2004 - 1:15 pm
That's weird, Kit! I was just about to post the same article but then I couldn't be bothered...

I always thought Giorgio Armani did it better than Jil though...
Hi again Prince of Cats

I like JIL'S minimalism , the quality and genius that Giorgio Armani also possesses.

I know Rita Britton , as an ex-pupil of mine worked with her as a buyer for Pollyanna ( check out the shop's website which proves it's not ALL grim , fashionwise , up north !!! ) .

Regards KIT

  Reply With Quote
11-01-2004
  34
V.I.P.
 
Spacemiu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Gender: homme
Posts: 9,447
I love jill, gald shes back!

__________________
Oceans of angels, oceans of stars
  Reply With Quote
11-01-2004
  35
arndom
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,580
http://modaonline.it
has pictures from Jil, Versace and CN autumn 04 shows.

  Reply With Quote
09-03-2004
  36
kit
tfs star
 
kit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stalybridge , Gr.Manchester , North UK .
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,521
Jil Sander
There's a headline on WGSN about a new Jil Sander clsh , this time with ' Massardi ' .

I don't have access to this site for full news .

Does ANYONE have any info ?

Thanks in advance .

KIT

  Reply With Quote
09-03-2004
  37
V.I.P.
 
faust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York City
Posts: 10,312
Quote:
Originally posted by kit@Mar 9th, 2004 - 9:12 am
There's a headline on WGSN about a new Jil Sander clsh , this time with ' Massardi ' .

I don't have access to this site for full news .

Does ANYONE have any info ?

Thanks in advance .

KIT
tick, tack, tick, tack...

  Reply With Quote
09-03-2004
  38
etre soi-meme
 
Lena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
Gender: femme
Posts: 23,965
i read the article but it doesnt say much, its apparently taken from NYPost but i could not trace the original article there either. i'm quite useless

so the wgsn says that
Quote:
"Jil had a new personality clash with Roberto Massardi
who seems to be general manager of her company and a trusted lieutenant of Prada's Bertelli.
She often ignores him on meetings and the problem appears to be Sander's belief she does not have the creative freedom she was promised to lure her back"
truth is that Sander's comeback collection (which i saw and is wonderful) is not going as well as it was expected.. personally i have the idea that Prada is somehow 'copying' some of Sander's own ideas and incorporate them into their 'own' Prada collections

(i noted this while browsing both their ss04 collections.. some of Prada's 'pronto' >not in the fashion show< lines were very much in Sander's spirit)

edited: i cant even type, save posting big shot opinions

  Reply With Quote
09-03-2004
  39
kit
tfs star
 
kit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stalybridge , Gr.Manchester , North UK .
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally posted by Lena@Mar 9th, 2004 - 11:04 am
i read the article but it doesnt say much, its apparently taken from NYPost but i could not trace the original article there either. i'm quite useless

so the wgsn says that
Quote:
"Jil had a new personality clash with Roberto Massardi
who seems to be general manager of her company and a trusted lieutenant of Prada's Bertelli.
She often ignores him on meetings and the problem appears to be Sander's belief she does not have the creative freedom she was promised to lure her back"
truth is that Sander's comeback collection (which i saw and is wonderful) is not going as well as it was expected.. perosnally i have the idea that Prada is somehow 'copying' some of Sander's own ideas and incorporate them into their 'own' Prada collections

(i noted this while browsing both their ss04 collections.. some of Prada's 'pronto' >not in the fashion show< lines were very much in Sander's spirit)
Many many thanks , LENA

It all hangs together , unfortunately .

I DO hope that she will NOT flounce off again , as many of my female friends have welcomed her back with open arms .

KIT

  Reply With Quote
09-03-2004
  40
front row
 
nikos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 352
does someone have a nypost account? and could do a little copy and paste? i'm dying to know...

the link to the the original article

  Reply With Quote
09-03-2004
  41
front row
 
Orochian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 432
And I thought these things have been clearly negotiated through before Jil Sander returned to her own house. What exactly would be the point to make up and start over if the very same dispute that caused her to leave in the first place, was still there?

This may be slightly off-topic, but this seemingly endless stream of conflicts between Sander and her bosses at Prada makes me wonder what's the situation like over at Helmut Lang. We haven't heard of the slightest ounce of unpleasantness or clashing there, have we?

Lang doesn't seem like someone who'd settle for creative restrictions and the downgrading of quality for the sake of profits - complaints that Sander have lodged against Prada. So is Lang just exceptionally easy-going, or is Sander particularly hard to please? Or is it something else?

It's sad when you think about how much Helmut Lang has flourished and expanded over the past few years, while Jil Sander kind of stagnated under the (uninspired) direction of Milan Vukmirovic. I hope they work out their differences for good.

  Reply With Quote
09-03-2004
  42
front row
 
nikos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 352
helmut has hardly flourished financially under prada. he is in deep red, too. it's just that sander is a public company and has to give out financial results.

jil is very dogmatic. just enter the store and see the manically orchestrated positioning of each salesperson in the boutique... these retail temples she had built are another factor. a 10,000 sq foot store in paris, a 12,000 sq foot morgue in london, an 18,000 sq foot townhouse on 57th st in ny (rent=$750 per sq feet/month). not a single one of these palaces are profitable... vuitton may compensate by making money elsewhere, sander cannot.

she is a quality fanatic. everybody knows. helmut ain't. he has no prob with his crappy shirts being produced in morocco, ready for disposal the moment they arrive in stores.

i love sander. it's such a great label but i don't see a lot of room for growth. it's a $200 million company that makes more than 90% of money through clothes as opposed to prada's 25%. her clientele is what it always was - architects, bankers, lawyers - not buying into "must-have" items. and it's too cool a label to rival gucci and their friends in their domaine. not that i want it to...

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2004
  43
slightly dizzy
 
tott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,261
Just a little something which might add to the conflict, or may even be the reason behind it: cultural differences in the workplace. Especially when it comes to employees/managerial culture and quality issues...

I'm from Sweden and moved to Italy almost 1,5 years ago. I've only worked for one company here, so this might not be true for all Italian companies... Judging by what I hear, I think it's fairly representative.

A few of the things I've learnt is that there is practically no dialogue between managers/employees. Managers manage and employees are supposed to simply do their bidding. Italian wages are low, and there's a surplus of well-educated workers which leads to a fire-and-hire mentality among employers; if people do not "behave" you just replace them with another one who does. Everyone is replaceable, everyone. Italian workers keep silent and complain bitterly amongst themselves.

Which leads to skills/quality issues. Italian companies in general do not strive for perfection, neither in quality nor execution. There's a "good enough" approach to many, many things. Things don't have to be "the best", simply "good enough". Italian workers don't really get rewarded or recognized for any superior skills and performance, so they simply don't give a damn. There aren't that many dedicated workers on the market.

I've clashed with my bosses on many occassions and issues, and they would've fired me ten times over if I wasn't a bit hard to replace... But I think I'm adjusting and learning how to do my job despite the obstacles.

When it comes to Jil, she probably has a more Northern mentality than her Italian bosses, and since she expects quality she might have to fight this "good enough" approach too. I don't envy her position.

__________________
What a strange power there is in clothing. Isaac Bashevis Singer
  Reply With Quote
10-03-2004
  44
etre soi-meme
 
Lena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
Gender: femme
Posts: 23,965
having experienced the "Italian situation" myself,
i agree with tott's points, i couldnt say this better myself...
Helmut Lang has been directing his company in the most clever way possible.
hence, he avoids banging his head on the wall...

Orochian, if you have a close look at both designers work,
you will easily understand where the conflict (and the lack of it) stands.
The main difference between the two lines, is 'quality' of fabrics.
*Lang works on good quality 'basic' materials while giving his efford
mainly on forms and lines that are also not too hard to manufacture.
*Jil Sander is a 'fabrics' maniac. She needs special treatments, new technologies and the best qualities out there.
More, she needs 'engineering' new Sanders fabrics, and works from there.
Plus her designs are so based on details.
She's a purist that doesnt find it easy to compromise on fabrics prices
or constraction quality.

Sander's intitial problem with Prada Group was her fabrics
(she was choosing the very best=expensive for her collections)
I suspect that this problem is still there...

Helmut does not face this problem, he always uses the same basic materials
which is ok, it doesnt bother the HL 'younger' clients, still makes
all his collections looking a bit the same and stay quite reasonable in prices.
At least he has no conflicts and can persuade Prada Group to spend more
opening new shops HL boutiques etc etc.

Prada Group has a weakness with using expensive fabrics/materials.
Their 'philosophy' is that nice things can be done out of not so expensive
materials.. and of course they are right, but some designers need more
than basic in order to materialise their vision

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2004
  45
V.I.P.
 
faust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York City
Posts: 10,312
Quote:
Originally posted by Lena@Mar 10th, 2004 - 3:34 am
having experienced the "Italian situation" myself,
i agree with tott's points, i couldnt say this better myself...
Helmut Lang has been directing his company in the most clever way possible.
hence, he avoids banging his head on the wall...

Orochian, if you have a close look at both designers work,
you will easily understand where the conflict (and the lack of it) stands.
The main difference between the two lines, is 'quality' of fabrics.
*Lang works on good quality 'basic' materials while giving his efford
mainly on forms and lines that are also not too hard to manufacture.
*Jil Sander is a 'fabrics' maniac. She needs special treatments, new technologies and the best qualities out there.
More, she needs 'engineering' new Sanders fabrics, and works from there.
Plus her designs are so based on details.
She's a purist that doesnt find it easy to compromise on fabrics prices
or constraction quality.

Sander's intitial problem with Prada Group was her fabrics
(she was choosing the very best=expensive for her collections)
I suspect that this problem is still there...

Helmut does not face this problem, he always uses the same basic materials
which is ok, it doesnt bother the HL 'younger' clients, still makes
all his collections looking a bit the same and stay quite reasonable in prices.
At least he has no conflicts and can persuade Prada Group to spend more
opening new shops HL boutiques etc etc.

Prada Group has a weakness with using expensive fabrics/materials.
Their 'philosophy' is that nice things can be done out of not so expensive
materials.. and of course they are right, but some designers need more
than basic in order to materialise their vision
Exactly! Prada's own line's quality is far from excellent, which is one of the reasons I never held her in high regard. Another is her bland designs, but that's a whole different issue. I don't like Sander's style either, but I can definitely appreciate the fabrics she uses - just touching the cashmere of her sweaters makes me all mellow and cozy

  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
jil, sander
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 AM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. ©2014 All rights reserved.