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15-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleathquakes View Post
if people saw the manner of criticism as racist, then they're dismissing the criticism altogether by whipping out the race card. That's what I saw.
How, though? I guess I don't equate those two things. Most people were not taking an issue with the collection being called tacky, or ugly, or ill-conceived, or boring, or overrated (except as a matter of opinion, i.e., "I don't think this collection is ugly"). It was the use of a certain word or two in relation to this particular collection, but not other tacky collections from -- coincidence! -- white designers, that got hackles up. There are many, many ways to say that something sucks, and the fact that people kept going back to one or two certain phrases was problematic. How is saying, "Yes, this is very ugly, but please find a way to describe the immense ugliness of this collection without using that offensive word," dismissing criticism altogether?

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Originally Posted by honeycombchild View Post
Look how happy she is to be wearing it.
lol. I actually think that dress works on her, but her expression is just killing it. And not in the good way.

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15-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleathquakes View Post
I think he approached it very wisely - he was actually humble. he didn't just throw it out there and used his celebrity status.

You mean he paid his way to show in Paris? His afterparty speech really blew me away, he just name dropped, swore a bit and in my view claimed he was great. I'm sorry but that kind of arrogance cannot be viewed as humble. His approach was to go all out. He hired top models, got top guests, in a top location. He didn't start small and work his way up, he went all out and I think that's what shot him down. It looks like a terrible collection (WTF is with that bag that looks like a hiking fur version of Victoria's Secret wings?!). With all the money he splashed around for this you'd expect better. It seems as if he almost thought his money would be a substitute for designing talent, "And I took out motherf—ing loans to get the best models, to get the best designers, to get the best venue. I gave you everything that I had".

If this is his dream, he went about it in a way that might be suited for the music industry, but not so for fashion. The fashion world has a tolerance for designers with egos and personality, but they're only quirky instead of arrogant when they've shown they have talent and can produce something quality.

This isn't a good first collection in my opinion. I would want to see a designer's own unique vision walking down the runway. That would possibly make any tailoring faults acceptable. But here there wasn't really a vision, just clothing based around others' work, badly fitting and out of place in Paris. I think that is what makes this collection a failure to me... plus I find it quite ugly .

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15-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheepmunk View Post
How is saying, "Yes, this is very ugly, but please find a way to describe the immense ugliness of this collection without using that offensive word," dismissing criticism altogether?
because now we're focusing only on what you we deem offensive about the criticism, which has nothing to do with the criticism itself and it becomes a topic of race, not fashion. It is accusatory in nature and paints the other person not as a fellow thinker but as a racist whose opinions shouldn't be valued.

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15-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleathquakes View Post
because now we're focusing only on what you we deem offensive about the criticism, which has nothing to do with the criticism itself and it becomes a topic of race, not fashion. It is accusatory in nature and paints the other person not as a fellow thinker but as a racist whose opinions shouldn't be valued.
Thanks for explaining. I guess this is one of those agree-to-disagree topics, because I don't think pointing out problematic language does what you said. I'm not ever going to reach a point in any discussion where I can accept that there is something wrong with saying, "Hey, I acknowledge your viewpoint, but can you find another way to express it, preferably one that is not offensive and/or insulting to a particular group?"

I mean, if that's wrong, what is one supposed to do when one sees someone using racist language*, then? Just ignore it? That seems worse.

* BTW, saying that someone is using -ist (racist, misogynist, whatever) language is not at all the same thing as calling someone that -ist. People come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences, and some people have never encountered certain language, so when they see it used on the internet without comment, for example, they think it's fine when it's really not. I know that I've said plenty of stupid and offensive things because I didn't know better, and I appreciated it when people pointed out what I was unconsciously or unknowingly doing. I certainly didn't think they were trying to call me racist by telling me that certain words were offensive.


Last edited by cheepmunk; 15-10-2011 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Sometimes I like to take English out back in the alley and hit in the face with a 2x4.
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17-10-2011
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Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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17-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amour_amour363 View Post
You mean he paid his way to show in Paris? His afterparty speech really blew me away, he just name dropped, swore a bit and in my view claimed he was great. I'm sorry but that kind of arrogance cannot be viewed as humble.
Oh God no, I was just talking about the fashion show itself and how he could've done so much more with it in terms of being over-the-top simply because he can. the after party - yeah that's typical Kanya

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14-01-2012
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However could Mr. West top the hype, the heat and the drama of his controversial debut offering on the Paris Fashion Week schedule last season? Well for starters he could go into seclusion giving himself time to refine his intended aesthetic , then pull in the talents of a rising star designer known for his sleek, body conscious cuts. And then to cinch the whole thing tight , he could enlist the services of that no-nonsense mega-chic French stylist known for her super-modern aesthetic. And the Hiss Squad does mean Miss Marie Amelie Sauve. TI suspects those fittings are certainly going to be pulled together with four pins!
via http://theimagist.com/node/6400 (more gossip in the comments)

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14-01-2012
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Originally Posted by Salvatore View Post
Excuse me ? When did this happen ?
exactly my thought

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14-01-2012
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What young designer are they referencing?...Joseph Altuzarra...obvi. @ the Carine mention, but we currently have a deep pool of up and comers who play with the body-con thing...?

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