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13-10-2012
  196
Fat Karl
 
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Wow. I have to say I'm really impressed - more so than any other H&M collaboration...I'm going to have to do my best to get in line and pick up some stuff. Both the mens and the women's collections look really nice. Hope the quality doesn't disappoint too much!

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13-10-2012
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The best collaboration to date!

Been an avid collector for collabo since Matthew Williamson then Lanvin, Versace & Marni I have to say this one is the best one yet!

For a Margiela fan this is like an express affordable way of owning compilation of Margiela Greatest Hits (I don't think there's an problem with that)

To quote the monsieur himself in an interview he did with Suzy Menkes in 1994 after his first full-fledge RTW show:

"Authenticity is more and more important - instead of imitating originals, I decided to make complete reproductions," Read more here

So in all honesty eventho the great master has left the house since 2009 but I think this great H&M collab project is still in the truest essence of the house. Exactly what Martin Margiela would do if he is still in charge of the atelier.

Just my 2 cents.

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13-10-2012
  198
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everyone who is going to purchase the collection in nyc should form a little group.

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13-10-2012
  199
Stitch:the Hand
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street_a_Licious View Post
call me mean, but i'd love it when naysayers would eat their words
because you can gauge an official opinion in this capacity from mere images?

listen,aesthetically it looks great but i would have to see this up close and in a different context to get a real sense of how dynamic it really is. we have to remember this is professionally styled and professionally photographed really well but then we saw those earlier images some of the pieces looked really cheap....and cheesy. so to say that from your position is not only arrogant but its condescending.

i will say one thing though,adding to vetements comments earlier,perhaps in a certain way this will enlighten some of the newer MMM fans(those that weren't before he,patrick scallon and jenny mierens departed,that is)and show what this label was about originally. if it does that then,imo,MMM has done something really positive.

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13-10-2012
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Scott, I totally agree with what you said, and I am pretty sure the quality will not come close to actual, original pieces, especially since some of them are the artisanal line, using old, vintage materials that have a history by themselves, I don't think h&m will go through the effort of collecting usable football towels and remade them into a tailored jackets, for instance. And my previous posting here regarding educating newer audience who has never heard of Margiela, I really meant misleading them into thinking that this is what the design team at Margiela is capable of creating. To me, this is what Renzo Rosso wants to do at best, to dupe (judging from some comments I read here, he has succeeded at doing that) and somehow make people pay attention again to Margiela, and that Margiela the brand now, is the same as what it was before. The Margiela brand now is either a rehash of the creations of the man himself, using the same ideas over and over again, but never the same brilliance.

Martin Margiela created and reproduced from things or garments that were never really meant to be in 'fashion', like the staple sneakers from the Austrian military in 1943, ( yes, the shoes actually had a label stating the source of inspiration), or a coat from an American factory that was previously the uniform used there. What h&m is now doing, is to copy Margiela's ideas and trying to tell people these are Margiela's original ideas and what the brand is, when the man himself didn't even meant for people to think so in the first place.
So this 'reproduction' by h&m is very different from Margiela's idea of reproduction.

Of course, this collaboration is indeed a best of collection showcasing original and old Margiela, like the mirror scarf that drew inspiration from mirror balls at discos or the coat that was combined from two different old coats to make into one, or the old Levi's jeans cut and sewn from inside out etc. but no matter what, the spirit will never be the same.

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13-10-2012
  201
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Come to think about it, i wouldn't have felt so offended if h&m had just created the collaboration from the Margiela-the-brand, design team now, but there probably wasn't many brilliant prices anyway, that is why they had to dig into the archives and copy wholesale the designs. And the sleek marketing everything, really turns me off, but like I have said before, nothing new or unexpected about this, since it now is owned by the diesel group, use well known models at runway, produce a fragrance, and have shops at the middle of a busy shopping areas in Tokyo, London, Paris...none of which is what the obscure, low key Margiela before stood for, what he wanted people to do then, is just to focus on the clothes, the inspiration, the life and history.

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13-10-2012
  202
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scott, i agree with you. the photos may look good but the actual material and factory construction may look shoddy up close. the effect may be closer to a bad art student's project than a MMM original.

the royal blue ladies sweater seems like it might be a prime example of that.

the leather jacket for women seems like the best thing, but i'm not counting on getting it as i dont think the store in boston will carry it. and i'm not going to pay 3x the cost of it on ebay.

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14-10-2012
  203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetements View Post
Scott, I totally agree with what you said, and I am pretty sure the quality will not come close to actual, original pieces, especially since some of them are the artisanal line, using old, vintage materials that have a history by themselves, I don't think h&m will go through the effort of collecting usable football towels and remade them into a tailored jackets, for instance. And my previous posting here regarding educating newer audience who has never heard of Margiela, I really meant misleading them into thinking that this is what the design team at Margiela is capable of creating. To me, this is what Renzo Rosso wants to do at best, to dupe (judging from some comments I read here, he has succeeded at doing that) and somehow make people pay attention again to Margiela, and that Margiela the brand now, is the same as what it was before. The Margiela brand now is either a rehash of the creations of the man himself, using the same ideas over and over again, but never the same brilliance.

Martin Margiela created and reproduced from things or garments that were never really meant to be in 'fashion', like the staple sneakers from the Austrian military in 1943, ( yes, the shoes actually had a label stating the source of inspiration), or a coat from an American factory that was previously the uniform used there. What h&m is now doing, is to copy Margiela's ideas and trying to tell people these are Margiela's original ideas and what the brand is, when the man himself didn't even meant for people to think so in the first place.
So this 'reproduction' by h&m is very different from Margiela's idea of reproduction.

Of course, this collaboration is indeed a best of collection showcasing original and old Margiela, like the mirror scarf that drew inspiration from mirror balls at discos or the coat that was combined from two different old coats to make into one, or the old Levi's jeans cut and sewn from inside out etc. but no matter what, the spirit will never be the same.
But aren't your expectations misdirected and unreasonable?

This is a collaboration...with H&M. By definition, the collection reflects both brands. I get that the "quality will not come close" but did anyone expect it to? Partnering with H&M would be pointless if it was. The H&M aspect is that it's a lower price point and a wider audience. It's unfair to say H&M is "misleading" when it's being clearly marketed as a collaboration. Sure, there's compromises (eg. production, quality) and consequently you should adjust your judgment accordingly. If not, then maybe this collection is not for you.

For me, the fact that despite partnering with a mass company, this collection being more similar than it is different from the real thing is impressive.

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Last edited by emailme.; 14-10-2012 at 01:06 AM.
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14-10-2012
  204
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^ Agree. If you want MMM you can pay 600$ for a sweater.

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Last edited by GIVENCHYlover; 14-10-2012 at 02:43 AM.
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14-10-2012
  205
Stitch:the Hand
 
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agreed. what you see a lot of time is most certainly not what you get. lucy-or all those cheap copy cats margiela inspired for years whilst still designing.

also,to add to my comment,this is also shot with pro models. in my opinion the best and most interesting light for margiela is how it always translated to the way real people dressed. personality and body-type. even margiela's own models were realistic....often scouted straight from the streets of paris,brussels and antwerp. with that all in mind,if me not being totally convinced deems me or anybody else a mere "naysayer" so be it. frankly,when it comes to the integrity of a certain creative spirit and someone other that person comes along a messes with that then i freely admit and certainly don't apologize for any such cynicism. i don't like for wool to be pulled over my face.


Last edited by Scott; 14-10-2012 at 02:44 AM.
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14-10-2012
  206
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From the pictures, on an aesthetic level, I'm actually impressed. I didn't think that H&M had it in them to take it this far. However, the real assessment is made on the day it lands in the shops.

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14-10-2012
  207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emailme. View Post
But aren't your expectations misdirected and unreasonable?

This is a collaboration...with H&M. By definition, the collection reflects both brands. I get that the "quality will not come close" but did anyone expect it to? Partnering with H&M would be pointless if it was. The H&M aspect is that it's a lower price point and a wider audience. It's unfair to say H&M is "misleading" when it's being clearly marketed as a collaboration. Sure, there's compromises (eg. production, quality) and consequently you should adjust your judgment accordingly. If not, then maybe this collection is not for you.

For me, the fact that despite partnering with a mass company, this collection being more similar than it is different from the real thing is impressive.
You are totally missing the point, what I cannot stand is more the new owners of Margiela now, than h&m, for blatantly selling the archives in this manner. From a business point of view, the man himself can't have any complaints since he would have expected this to happen when he sold the brand.

In fact, I think if someone were to go into a thrift shop, get two different trench coats, cut them into half vertically and sold them back into one garment would have probably achieved a closer and better effect, and even likely to be even cheaper. If you have been an avid fan of Martin Margiela's works, you would know what I mean. So why think h&m is necessarily cheap? You really think nine of your money are marketing dollars?

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14-10-2012
  208
scenester
 
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Since Margiela left collections were really, really bad. Esp this last few seasons, so I must say that THIS is better than all those collections, I just hope it'll look good in person.

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14-10-2012
  209
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i'm definitely gonna get the shirt with the bow tie and the mirror scarf. shoot. i was hoping that i wouldn't need to line up.

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14-10-2012
  210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetements View Post
You are totally missing the point, what I cannot stand is more the new owners of Margiela now, than h&m, for blatantly selling the archives in this manner. From a business point of view, the man himself can't have any complaints since he would have expected this to happen when he sold the brand.

In fact, I think if someone were to go into a thrift shop, get two different trench coats, cut them into half vertically and sold them back into one garment would have probably achieved a closer and better effect, and even likely to be even cheaper. If you have been an avid fan of Martin Margiela's works, you would know what I mean. So why think h&m is necessarily cheap? You really think nine of your money are marketing dollars?
What I would like is a fair critique. There is a continuous discussion about the changes in the business of Margiela. Regardless of your opinion on the changes, it's a separate discussion and consequently, is not a valid point as to why you think this collection is bad. You can say the quality is not good but it's unfair to say the quality is bad because it's not the same as the real thing. It never said it was going to be nor should you expect it to be. If that's the case, then this collection is fundamentally not intended for people like you.

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Last edited by emailme.; 14-10-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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