[fashionista-ta]

I think Marc's particular talent is exactly capturing the zeitgeist each season ... and that is nothing to sneeze at.

But Chloe, you make a most interesting point about how really, the zeitgeist creeps into everything.

I have an old Southern Living cookbook a relative gave me, and based on all the pictured employees, it would be completely possible to date the book.

I came across an old Talbots catalog from the 80s not that long ago. At the time, the clothes seemed completely classic, boring, 'straight.' In fact they scream the decade in which they were created.

But to catch the wave each season, tie a bow around it & present it, that's a talent.

Last season really surprised me ... I was really struck by the cutting skill that clearly went into those very 'simple' clothes.

I think Marc is underestimated, but that's an advantage too. I've known people who cultivate being underestimated. Perhaps he is one of them. I don't do that, but on the rare occasion I get the advantage these days, I play it for all it's worth

[mikeijames]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fashionista-ta I think Marc's particular talent is exactly capturing the zeitgeist each season ... and that is nothing to sneeze at. But Chloe, you make a most interesting point about how really, the zeitgeist creeps into everything. I have an old Southern Living cookbook a relative gave me, and based on all the pictured employees, it would be completely possible to date the book. I came across an old Talbots catalog from the 80s not that long ago. At the time, the clothes seemed completely classic, boring, 'straight.' In fact they scream the decade in which they were created. But to catch the wave each season, tie a bow around it & present it, that's a talent. Last season really surprised me ... I was really struck by the cutting skill that clearly went into those very 'simple' clothes. I think Marc is underestimated, but that's an advantage too. I've known people who cultivate being underestimated. Perhaps he is one of them. I don't do that, but on the rare occasion I get the advantage these days, I play it for all it's worth

i cannot agree more.

[coldlunch]

I'm eating sugar-free dark cherry jello while watching the MJ collection in youtube. and all I can say is the collection is SWEET & DELICIOUS....SIMPLY IRRESISTABOW

what made my panty drop are:

the smaller sized shoulder bags. they are as fresh as freshly baked muffins

teh color: cherries and berries and cream and caramel, this is my favorite color schema that MJ uses. it reminded me of Spring 2002 which is one of my favorite MJ collezione.

the whole collection pretty much covered everything a real woman needs in her wardrobe

whoever thinks this collection is ugly, in my opinion, is a lesbiang or a tranny hot mess

[Melisande]

coldlunch lol! you are irresistabow

ta-ta nice to see you here, hope you're well!


I don't think Marc is talentless at all
I just tend to have very specific personal expectations for what it means to be an artist or designer in any field...terribly pompous!

[LabelWhore4]

Inspiration aside, this is just a truly ugly collection. Everything was just too literal and the fabrics look horrid. Marc is only a good stylist.....

[Escale Cherie II]

Actually, I really like this. 10% are some really unflattering stuff, but it’s strong, feminine and just a bit quirky, which is how I like Marc.

[chloehandbags]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uemarasan ^Yes, I seem to have misread your previous point about movies. Now that you've explained it further, it's much clearer now. Good insight about these specific types of films (historical, period, and genre). I'm reminded of how the costumes (and set design) in 2001 are obviously not really of the future but Cardin's idea of the future, which ironically came to be inseparable from 60s fashion. Looking back and looking forward are equally answerable to the present that they are coming from.

Thank you.

I think you make a very good point about futurism being just as affected by the time it was created and in fact, it is actually even more so, isn't it?

As there isn't even a pre-existing era's style to try to copy, of course!

Quote:

In a way, yes, I can see how that applies to what Marc Jacobs is trying to do when he quotes these particular eras. What bothers me is his wholesale subscription. Barely any irony or reconsideration or rediscovery. What speaks of our times or even his personal vision (as I don't mind what is hermitic)? Fabric, color, pattern? Nothing particularly striking or unique. His propositions are the same propositions that designers in the 70s made, and the redundancy of this kind of fashion is what turns me off. I see fossils, ossified concepts, not living, breathing ideas. Actually, you could make the case that Marc Jacobs is simply practicing academic exercises when he makes these "tributes" (as per Zazie), albeit very commercially successful ones. Same with any designer that blindly references the past.

Yes, I do see what you mean but, to me, this is still very Marc and still very much of the current time - it's just that (as I say) it's not so easy to see that now; especially as there aren't many super-obvious 'modern' flourishes to (artificially) differentiate it.

In a few years' time, though, I think it will be far more obvious to us all that this collection was produced now and that it was produced by Marc in 2010 and not by Yves (et al) in the 1970s.

What I'm saying is that, although the Yves inspiration will still be apparent to us, it will look far less dominant than it does now - just as YSL's 1930s and 1940s Bérard influences (which looked VERY obvious to people, at the time) became less obvious with time and it was far easier for people to differentiate the two and to see what, in his collections, was directly from Bérard (and other designers of the pre-war and wartime era) and his time and what was purely from Yves and his.

Quote:

Some might be able to argue that this collection is representative of the cycle of ideas and styles that is occupying fashion right now, and this therefore makes it timely and relevant. However, I have a personal distaste for that particular characteristic of the industry these days. In that respect, I feel fashion is defacing itself, recycling itself into oblivion.

It's not these days, though - it has always been...

If you have a copy of The Beautiful Fall (and if you don't, I would highly recommend it, BTW!), turn to page 29 - there you will find a paragraph describing how André Levasseur suggested to Yves Saint Laurent that he should tone down his Bérard references in regards to some costumes he'd designed and how YSL didn't agree at all!

...and thank God he didn't, because I don't think many people would suggest, now, that YSL should have done anything different than he did, would they(?) and yet, at the time, they did.

I think we should remember that feeling forced to water down (or to, otherwise, tinker-with) a vision, to try to please others, can be at least as destructive to creativity as being too derivative can be.

[chloehandbags]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zazie Does innovation= awkwardness?

No, TRUE innovation is not awkward, at all - but faux-innovation can be.

Quote:

That's a strange strawman, especially when I raised the example of YSL's "Le Smoking"

If you had been around at the time 'Le Smoking' was produced, I highly doubt you would have thought of it as 'innovative', though, Zazie.

That's, basically, the point I'm trying to make.

[disco54]

After seeing the boring london collections save for Roksanda and Pringle of Scotland , I love this collection even more now !

[chloehandbags]

^ I know, me too!

[Uemarasan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chloehandbags It's not these days, though - it has always been... If you have a copy of The Beautiful Fall (and if you don't, I would highly recommend it, BTW!), turn to page 29 - there you will find a paragraph describing how André Levasseur suggested to Yves Saint Laurent that he should tone down his Bérard references in regards to some costumes he'd designed and how YSL didn't agree at all! ...and thank God he didn't, because I don't think many people would suggest, now, that YSL should have done anything different than he did, would they(?) and yet, at the time, they did. I think we should remember that feeling forced to water down (or to, otherwise, tinker-with) a vision, to try to please others, can be at least as destructive to creativity as being too derivative can be.

Yes, I see where you are coming, and let me thank you first for the interesting discussion If I may clarify, when I mention fashion recycling itself into oblivion, I mean that compared with the referencing of the past, these days it is done in such a scale and timeframe that seems as if fashion is collapsing unto itself, mirrors of mirrors that lead nowhere, done as a matter of whimsy and trendiness and lack of vision and courage to press forward and address the issues of our time. This is in fact very different from what Saint Laurent had done: he took the past, put it in the context of the present to pave the way for the future. The best example is the Le Smoking. Here he took what was traditionally a man's garment, a symbol of power and authority and chauvinism, neutralized it to suit the rise of feminism and the further empowerment of women in his time, and thus ensured a new kind of dress code for women of the future, a new symbol for women. Any worthwhile creative enterprise is a product of the past and the present and the future.

I really don't have more to add beyond that, but I will let you in on something: I really don't think much of Yves Saint Laurent. I respect what he has accomplished, but I personally believe more in the vision of Pierre Cardin, in the same way that Schiaparelli is more important to me than Chanel

[GivenchyHomme]

Blouse,Skirt,and Shoes
US Vogue January 2010
Daria Werbowy by Peter Lindbergh
Styled by Grace Coddington
community.livejournal.com/noirfacade

[gius]

colours are beautiful, esp in the video. i like these lengths.. Horizontally, wide-leg maybe but flared pants, i wonder if they'll ever make their return lol, i remember many a complaint by female friends about them back in the 2000s. literally no store that didn't stock only them. i was often envied for my straight-legs in those days.