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01-04-2013
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Good read!
http://fashionista.com/2013/04/raf-s...toric-designs/

 
 
01-04-2013
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^ Here are the looks Humor Chic singles out:



humorchic.blogspot.com

 
01-04-2013
  333
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I don't think there's anything wrong with this. Designer such as Raf Simons, Phoebe Philo or Miuccia Prada have a very strong vision and if they 'steal' from someone, they always put the piece into a new context and they actually remake it from a scratch.

It's not that they stole the whole idea for the collection or they copied the styling etc. They simply took something and remade it to be relevant again. I think we should be actually greatful for that, because fashion today is not about coming up with new clothes, it's about coming up with fresh ideas.

 
01-04-2013
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Weren't those looks singled out in this thread? He must be reading it...

 
02-04-2013
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I have to say that Dior/Edith head is the most strenuous link.

Fabric, cut, style, its all very different, it literally has flowers on the skirt....wow.

 
07-04-2013
  336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaisinBoy View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with this. Designer such as Raf Simons, Phoebe Philo or Miuccia Prada have a very strong vision and if they 'steal' from someone, they always put the piece into a new context and they actually remake it from a scratch.

It's not that they stole the whole idea for the collection or they copied the styling etc. They simply took something and remade it to be relevant again. I think we should be actually greatful for that, because fashion today is not about coming up with new clothes, it's about coming up with fresh ideas.
"Stealing" is stealing, whether it was done throughout an entire collection, or a single look. I don't understand the notion of giving certain designers a pass because they are considered to be visionaries. It makes me cringe how people are quick to defend Phoebe Philo (whom I personally love) but want to crucify Alexander Wang for a Balenciaga silhouette in his collection.

The argument that fashion is mean to be recycled is a week one. If these pieces were in fact apart of the inspiration, than giving credit would be appropriate, but there wasn't any of that with any of these shows.

At the end of the day, how does what they have done differ from what Zara, Topshop, and H&M will inevitably do with those designs? It doesn't make it any better because it is a major brand.

 
07-04-2013
  337
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^ I completely agree with you.

 
07-04-2013
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I think cynically we call it stealing, but as with anything, fashion repeats itself. Cycles occur, things ebb and flow, and you're likely to see that blast from the past from time to time. You see it with models, you see it with trends, so it's not surprising you would see it in the fashion designs themselves. While I find it humorous, I don't necessarily think certain designers steal for the sake of stealing, but rather, just having that moment of great minds thinking alike. However, certain designers do get pegged because there is a pattern that they've established over the course of their careers where it's extremely questionable whether they're ignorant of works from other designers and just happen to come up with the exact idea at a different period in time, or whether they're really copying.

 
07-04-2013
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A few designs do not make a collection. I think that's the problem with concentrating on single, individual designs and not considering the overall vision of a collection. And with the thousands of designs and ideas produced each year, it is perfectly natural that there will be repetitions.

Besides, who said that originality was the only virtue of design? Repurposing something to suit your own vision or aesthetic is a valid exercise. In any field. For instance, that Geoffrey Beene coat just had its sleeves tied. What Phoebe Philo did was use those sleeves as a decorative element, to fit in with her collection of clothes that embrace and enfold its wearers in softness.

The accusation of "copying is copying, stealing is stealing" lacks the nuance that is necessary to understanding the creative process. It's like comparing a single line that two poems share, and saying that one is already copying the other. What happened to comprehending allusion, reference, pastiche, parody, satire? It's an inadequate argument and risks not seeing the forest for the trees.

 
07-04-2013
  340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uemarasan View Post
A few designs do not make a collection. I think that's the problem with concentrating on single, individual designs and not considering the overall vision of a collection. And with the thousands of designs and ideas produced each year, it is perfectly natural that there will be repetitions.

Besides, who said that originality was the only virtue of design? Repurposing something to suit your own vision or aesthetic is a valid exercise. In any field. For instance, that Geoffrey Beene coat just had its sleeves tied. What Phoebe Philo did was use those sleeves as a decorative element, to fit in with her collection of clothes that embrace and enfold its wearers in softness.

The accusation of "copying is copying, stealing is stealing" lacks the nuance that is necessary to understanding the creative process. It's like comparing a single line that two poems share, and saying that one is already copying the other. What happened to comprehending allusion, reference, pastiche, parody, satire? It's an inadequate argument and risks not seeing the forest for the trees.
I am not talking about a basic tuxedo jacket that hundreds of designers create each season, rather a piece that is so unique and identifiable as being completely original.

At the end of the day, I fail to see the difference in these designers copying someone else's work and a fake Prada bag marked with a Pravda logo on Canal St. Same shape, similar fabric, different name on the tag.

I never said that the reason behind putting the look in any of these collections didn't carry any weight, however, it is quite matter of fact: the outfits in that post are almost identical. There are know two ways around that. I can appreciate the thought that goes into say, the Celine coat being "based" off the GBeene "to fit in with her collection of clothes that embrace and enfold its wearers in softness", but in the end, none of these looks were a completely original thought, and my point is just that - the design was copied. I'm not accusing the designers of lacking in skill, just calling it like it is. The outfits "look-alike."

 
07-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleathquakes View Post
I think cynically we call it stealing, but as with anything, fashion repeats itself. Cycles occur, things ebb and flow, and you're likely to see that blast from the past from time to time. You see it with models, you see it with trends, so it's not surprising you would see it in the fashion designs themselves. While I find it humorous, I don't necessarily think certain designers steal for the sake of stealing, but rather, just having that moment of great minds thinking alike. However, certain designers do get pegged because there is a pattern that they've established over the course of their careers where it's extremely questionable whether they're ignorant of works from other designers and just happen to come up with the exact idea at a different period in time, or whether they're really copying.
I see your point on this, especially about certain designers who consistently reference other designers' work in their collections. It makes sense that history will repeat itself in fashion, for sure, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that the looks are very similar, even in terms of cut, fabrication, color, or print.

 
07-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostInNJ View Post
I never said that the reason behind putting the look in any of these collections didn't carry any weight, however, it is quite matter of fact: the outfits in that post are almost identical. There are know two ways around that. I can appreciate the thought that goes into say, the Celine coat being "based" off the GBeene "to fit in with her collection of clothes that embrace and enfold its wearers in softness", but in the end, none of these looks were a completely original thought, and my point is just that - the design was copied. I'm not accusing the designers of lacking in skill, just calling it like it is. The outfits "look-alike."
Of course, clearly the outfits look alike. But I don't necessarily see how lack of originality is a bad thing in these cases, since the look-alikes make sense (and acquire new meanings) in the context of the collections.

 
07-04-2013
  343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uemarasan View Post
A few designs do not make a collection. I think that's the problem with concentrating on single, individual designs and not considering the overall vision of a collection. And with the thousands of designs and ideas produced each year, it is perfectly natural that there will be repetitions.

Besides, who said that originality was the only virtue of design? Repurposing something to suit your own vision or aesthetic is a valid exercise. In any field. For instance, that Geoffrey Beene coat just had its sleeves tied. What Phoebe Philo did was use those sleeves as a decorative element, to fit in with her collection of clothes that embrace and enfold its wearers in softness.

The accusation of "copying is copying, stealing is stealing" lacks the nuance that is necessary to understanding the creative process. It's like comparing a single line that two poems share, and saying that one is already copying the other. What happened to comprehending allusion, reference, pastiche, parody, satire? It's an inadequate argument and risks not seeing the forest for the trees.
Completely agree with you.

I see it like this: these designers in question (Prada, Raf and Phoebe) are very much like musicians. Think of some of the greatest songs in our cultural vocabulary - you'll start to notice that a good majority of them are covers or use heavy sampling from other songs/musicians. Does that make them a lesser artist? Not at all. Songs like Madonna's "Hung Up," although blatantly sampling ABBA's "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme" is a totally different song to me - both equally as catchy and fun to listen to. I like both and don't think that by sampling the song, Madonna is "lazy." This is true for most other artists (in reality, 99% of hip-hop/rap music is made up of layers upon layers of direct sampling from other artists of the genre all the way to classical composers.)

For a designer to take an outfit from the past or from another designer and incorporate it into their vision - even if it is a direct copy - is far less bothersome to me than a designer who may not copy seam-for-seam, but who has no original ideas of their own. It's the difference between a song that samples another song as a means to arrive at a new composition, and a song that sounds exactly like another (think Lady Gaga's "Born This Way" vs. Madonna's "Express Yourself.")

So, yes - in conclusion - that Celine coat may be a pretty obvious replication of the Geoffrey Beene one, or that Prada may be rather similar to the Courreges coat, but because they've been incorporated into a vision that makes that original piece mean something different I find it entirely non-offensive. So, like Littleathquakes so eloquently stated, designers that tend to not get the "free pass" are ones that consistently lack any personal point of view and instead are constantly reworking entire ideas of previous designers with little interpretation. Where Altuzarra or Alexander Wang could be accused of being Ghesquiere-lite on many an occasion, when else can we point the finger at Philo and say she's been spending too much time in the Beene archives?

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Last edited by dior_couture1245; 07-04-2013 at 12:59 PM.
 
07-04-2013
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^Yes, thank you for further articulating what we've both been arguing And excellent example with music sampling!

And for all we know, these pieces could be tributes, and no one says tributes have to be properly acknowledged or cited, unless you're writing an academic paper. It happens in films all the time, for instance. Like here: http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/ozus-cinephilia

The difference between this sort of borrowing and a fake Prada bag is a matter of time between the creation of the objects, and the fact that the fake Prada bag seeks to profit from pretending to be a Prada bag, the designer (or counterfeiter) behind the copy being erased by a pretense to authenticity. With the Prada and Courreges outfits, Miuccia Prada and Andre Courreges both take responsibility for their designs, with authenticity not being the perceived problem but originality.


Last edited by Uemarasan; 07-04-2013 at 01:19 PM.
 
08-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostInNJ View Post
I see your point on this, especially about certain designers who consistently reference other designers' work in their collections. It makes sense that history will repeat itself in fashion, for sure, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that the looks are very similar, even in terms of cut, fabrication, color, or print.
Yes. I don't see anything wrong with posting comparison pics - this is the Outfit look alike thread, after all. I know some people do and always chime in about who actually did what first from 3,000 B.C. which I don't care for. I see the humor in the thread and enjoy it.

 
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