Raf Simons Mens S/S 02

[nqth]

Bravo, Softgrey and cerfas!!!

It's such a real life to get beyond all the difficulties and constrains, to create new things, to change the world. Get over it? No thank you.

[metal-on-metal]

Originally Posted by cerfas

After the attacks on 9/11, I felt that not enough artists were immediately responding to what had happened--I was disappointed by that. Wish I had seen coverage of this show then. Fashion can be a very powerful medium to convey a message. another person who I think does it well (although he is sometimes not as good at it as Raf is) is Miguel Adrover, one of my favorite designers.

Yes, except Raf did it BEFORE 9/11. This collection was shown in July of 2001, over two months prior to September 11th. That's part of what makes this collection so amazing. It's really eerily prescient. I think Raf is so in tune with the European youth culture that he felt this growing wave of militantism before it really struck. Belgium and The Low Countries have extremely problematic race relations. And marginalized youths are really taking things into their own hands. I think this show was really a manifestation of that and a prediction of things to come.

[PrinceOfCats]

The collection is actually quite attractive to the untrained eye as well though. You don't need to be some hardcore Belgo-junkie to appreciate attractive design...

[metal-on-metal]

Originally Posted by fashion whore

i don't know why people all over the world seem to love Raf Simons. Isn't the minimalistic, plain, black versus white stuff a little overdone? Come on, all these Belgian designers seem to be depressed or something. Personally, i prefer more classical designers or slutty designers, cause at the moment, the way things are going in the world, with all that fuss about islam terrorism, i need a dose of Paris Hilton in my life. Forget worries, let's get decadent, now's the time to live people !!! Get some luxury while you still can, get over all that typically Belgian realism, with an exception for Van Noten (because he's still very classical and has a very oldish style).

"All the fuss" about terrorism? It's a VERY real thing, not something that's blown up and "fussed" about. The rest of your post is so preposterous and ridiculous that I don't even know how to respond to it.

[PrinceOfCats]

Originally Posted by fashion whore

i don't know why people all over the world seem to love Raf Simons. Isn't the minimalistic, plain, black versus white stuff a little overdone? Come on, all these Belgian designers seem to be depressed or something. Personally, i prefer more classical designers or slutty designers, cause at the moment, the way things are going in the world, with all that fuss about islam terrorism, i need a dose of Paris Hilton in my life. Or otherwise, i think i'll have to return to the nineteenth with my wardrobe to find some stability on a political terrain. I chose for the first one. Forget worries, let's get decadent, now's the time to live people !!! Get some luxury while you still can, get over all that typically Belgian realism, with an exception for Van Noten (because he's still very classical and has a very oldish style).

Whoah, didn't notice this post before. Are you expecting the apocalypse or something?

[metal-on-metal]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCats

Whoah, didn't notice this post before. Are you expecting the apocalypse or something?

I don't know what he's expecting, Prince. But the whole 'millenium mania' look could not be more out of sync with the times. There's a reason why brands like Versace are bankrupt. People want sensitive clothing. Clothing that looks and feels special and personal. That's where people like Raf come in and that's why his profile keeps rising and rising. Quite simple. I won't even touch the ignorant comment about Islam and terrorism.

[cerfas]

Oh wow, thanks for the extra info metal-on-metal. That's quite freaky that it was done beforehand!

Princeofcats...hahhaha...

[cerfas]

I'd really like to hear more from fashion_whore---where is s/he?

[PrinceOfCats]

Originally Posted by metal-on-metal

I don't know what he's expecting, Prince. But the whole 'millenium mania' look could not be more out of sync with the times. There's a reason why brands like Versace are bankrupt. People want sensitive clothing. Clothing that looks and feels special and personal. That's where people like Raf come in and that's why his profile keeps rising and rising. Quite simple. I won't even touch the ignorant comment about Islam and terrorism.

Sounds on the money, M-O-M. All this artisanal stuff seems to be having a real take-off because people want something more personal.

[cerfas]

Metal-on-metal...you're quite right.
This is something quite small, but even in many sects of youth culture...there is a popularization of :
-hand made goods (sites like www.wilkdesigns.com, www.cactuspony.com, www.pinkthread.com, www.day-lab.com, are everywhere, selling beautiful personal hand made stuff)
-organic / socially conscious products including clothing (not to mention second hand)
-and i sense an overall aesthetic appeal of old things--bikes, record players, etc....
This is not a concrete point, more of a note of an undercurrent...I'm not really sure what i'm trying to say here. And this is not really about the high-end fashion consumer as most kids don't have a ton of money. ..

[softgrey]

as long as we are making intelligent comments...
no fighting ...
i don't think we need a response from fashion whore to discuss this point of view...
he is certainly not the only one who feels this way...and we shouldn't attack him for his point of view...

and moda junkie...
you should feel free to express your opinion in a thoughtful manner as well...
don't let one person's bad mood get to you...
welcome to the spot!!..

and for everyone..
never dismiss anyone out of hand just because they have a different point of view...
it can be very dangerous...
learning about how and why other people see things the way they do is incredibly valuable...
it is the key to world peace...

[travolta]

Metal-on-metal...you're quite right.
This is something quite small, but even in many sects of youth culture...there is a popularization of :
-hand made goods (sites like www.wilkdesigns.com, www.cactuspony.com, www.pinkthread.com, www.day-lab.com, are everywhere, selling beautiful personal hand made stuff)
-organic / socially conscious products including clothing (not to mention second hand)
-and i sense an overall aesthetic appeal of old things--bikes, record players, etc....
This is not a concrete point, more of a note of an undercurrent...I'm not really sure what i'm trying to say here. And this is not really about the high-end fashion consumer as most kids don't have a ton of money. ..

this is a huge trend in branding/ strategy companies right now. the comme store is an example of this: personalized, intimate experiences. i think it will go beyond simply being nostalgic, and we'll see a lot more socially conscious/ organic products, and people will except a higher level of specificity and authenticity.

[cerfas]

One-of-a-kind is definitely a key word, too
Even in high end fashion--if something is one of a kind--!!!
You're right, I think it will go beyond being nostalgic--but on the topic of nostalgia--I think you can also see this trend in the increased importance of vintage clothing. Obviously people interested in fashion were for the most part aware of the importance and value of vintage, but it became a really popular even trendy thing. Youare less likely to see someone else wearing the exact same vintage piece you own and that's a big part of the appeal.

[faust]

Softie, I don't know what kind of a response were you expecting to such a dumb comment. Maybe a more Buddhist way would be to simply ignore it.. and I guess you are right. But I never said I was Buddhist, I just said that I think it's the most compelling and sense-making philosophy of life, and I am striving towards it. I guess I failed in this thread. You know I am all for constructive critisim, or at least to critisism in an intelligent manner (as you said yourself in the post above).

PoC and MoM, love your comments

[fashion whore]

Originally Posted by softgrey

wow...fashion whore...thanks for your post...
while i can't think of too many things in the world i am disgusted by as much as a spoiled little rich girl with fake hair and a fake tan prancing around in public with no underwear ..it's interesting to hear from the perspective of someone who actually likes that sort of thing....
because for the life of me...i haven't been able to see the appeal ...

i guess it's the ostrich syndrome...
let's all bury our heads in the sand and pretend everything is fine...
let's all dance around and ignore the people getting blown up because it's not happening to us...

i have never understood how to ignore reality ..
without doing some sort of mind-altering drugs, that is...
but maybe drugs is a big part of that culture...
total denial...

i mean...here is poor little raf simons with barely any funding...
trying so hard to make some sort of statement...
(even if the clothes are kind of boring)...

and there is paris hillton...with ALL OF THAT MONEY..!!!
who could REALLY make some sort of difference with all of that at her disposal...
and yet this is how she chooses to live her life...
prancing around and partying in LA LA land...

sheesh!!...
no wonder so many people around the world hate america......
they must think we're all like that...

Now, if there's one reason why people hate america, it definitely won't be because of Paris. On this side of the ocean, no one cares about her, really they don't. I think it's a bit childish to say "she could change something in the world with all that money at her disposal", so what about bill gates then? Or other rich people? And what could she change?

Don't start about idealistic things such as resolving world food problems and stuff, just think about it for five minutes how it would go, and i hope you'll realise that it's just impossible.

I think, the main problem with for example the shortage of food in developing countries is not the fact that there is no will and money in the rich countries to ship it, it's just that the food will get into the wrong hands. Those countries and their regimes are all soooooo corrupt.

My mom had tenants once, a Nigerian family, and that is where i got these ideas from. They told us about whole packages of powder milk that was being delivered by the UN or what's it called again, and the guys that worked in the harbour took it for their own and sold it to the people who really needed it. As a result tons of that stuff was left over and had gone rotten because it stayed in the harbour for too long. They said things like that happen all the time over there.

Look at Africa, i refuse to get to carried away with seeing another war started over there. You give them money and they buy weapons to kill eachother. First of all, their way of thinking and life perception, and especially that extremism concerning religion should change. And those are things that will have to grow, you can't force it with money.

In Europe there have been a lot of wars, on a grand scale, and we learned from it, but that also took time, centuries, and a lot of lives. We've bombarded the Africans with a new way of living and culture when we started the colonies, and i think that is the biggest mistake ever made in the history of mankind. You can't get them "civilised" (as we see civilised from our perspective) from one year on the other. They should have let them live the way they did, i think things were much better over there before. Eventually they would have learned from the past and things would have gotten more civilised.

And what i think is even more stupid is that people all over the world stagger when America invaded Iraq. Like, hellow, they are shutting down a regime that has done things that are too horrible to tell. It's just because people were scared of Saddam, scared that something might happen to effect them. And the first ones to protest were the Americans, and the first ones to chear when Saddam was gone where the Iraqi. So ironic..

So now, let's get real. Raf Simons can never change the world, and Paris Hilton even less because Raf has at least succeeded in touching you guys over here, where Paris did not, so... We don't bury our heads in the sand, we've just come to a point where everything seems to have been done to change things, and we start to realise that we can't change a hell of a lot while even huge projects seem to be like carrying water to the sea.

Fashion in the first place is nothing else than making clothes. It is never going to have an effect on politics or anything major. And i think Raf realises that as well. All he can do is try to sell clothes by taking chances and changing the subjects of his collections into something that is hot for the moment, or that people haven't quite forgotten or have been very upset about. Au fond, all he's doing is taking a hot topic, trying to do something with it in his (appearantly) everything but creative mind, hoping that idealists all over the world will make their own interpretation of it, and survive for another season by selling the clothes to those idealists that hope to become a billboard for the idealistic ideas they cherish in their minds.

In that respect, people that are absolutely anti-Paris are actually doing the same as her. Only they still believe in things Paris perhaps has never even thought of, and other people (like me) have put all ideologies aside and take life as it comes and try to make the most of it.