Rei Kawakubo / Comme des Garcons for H&M Designer Collection

[Street_a_Licious]

Originally Posted by ms-nietzsche

Or innovative?
If you don't like Rei's stuff, don't buy it? Of course the masses aren't going to be wearing it, so if you're so insistent on following the norm, it's not exactly a problem.

i just asked why everyone was so excited about ill-fitting garments. and screw your "following the norm" comment. you are just following a different norm. different, yes, still a norm.

Originally Posted by Mutterlein

No, it really doesn't. Understand Japan's historical dress and history of body image. Corsets, restrictive underwear, the idea of forcing the body into whatever ideal is popular, this did not exist in Japan until they began to emulate Western culture in an effort to modernize. And sdespite this Japan still has a very different idea of anatomical aesthetics and how it relates to clothing.

So for you, what may be ill-fitted is normal elsewhere.

-1: i am SE-Asian.

-2: even in Japan's history, fit was important. while no restrictive, there was a big difference between, lets say, an ill fitting kimono and well fitting kimono. japanese samurai armor is a lot more comfortable than the european pendant. but not because the fit looked off. samurais don't look like they wear garments which don't fit them.

why do you think there was the obi? to give definition. people who could afford it had their clothes custom made. even back then there was no "one size fit all" style.

[mikka000]

[quote=Mutterlein;4813039]CDG is a funny label. It's built itself up so conceptually and is so highly regarded. People are very defensive of it and any criticism has to be airtight. But really, it's one of those brands that people pride themselves in knowing despite that they never actually wear any of the clothes. They will of course go out and get that promotional t-shirt or Odeur 53, or a bright green wallet. And they'll feel happy because they own some "comme".

this isn't just a CdG thing though, all labels have that. people say they love Dolce and Gabbana or Prada and all they have are some ****ty sunglasses. they dream of owning the good stuff. it's not really just a CdG thing.

I don't have much CdG but I admire Rei (and Junya). And Margiela too for their clothes and business style, interior design etc. I more admire them from afar if you know what I mean. Like an artwork I'll never possess. Rei collections of late haven't been jawdropping though. However, I didn't seem to mind the last H+ collection but while I was living in Tokyo 2 years ago, it seemed people already dressed like that. CdG seem to be branching out like all other brands and making cheaper lines and doing things like the H+M collaboration. How Rei's legacy of deconstruction and 'shock' in the 80s translates to these new ventures I don't know. Buying a PLAY polo with the heart logo on it is hardly 'innovation'.

[ms-nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Street_a_Licious

i just asked why everyone was so excited about ill-fitting garments. and screw your "following the norm" comment. you are just following a different norm. different, yes, still a norm.



-1: i am SE-Asian.

-2: even in Japan's history, fit was important. while no restrictive, there was a big difference between, lets say, an ill fitting kimono and well fitting kimono. japanese samurai armor is a lot more comfortable than the european pendant. but not because the fit looked off. samurais don't look like they wear garments which don't fit them.

why do you think there was the obi? to give definition. people who could afford it had their clothes custom made. even back then there was no "one size fit all" style.

That's exactly the point isn't it? You can't claim well-fitting is the norm, and that's why things should be well fitted when there are other norms out there.

The reason why I'm so excited about the ill-fitting garments is because I think fit isn't the only important factor in judging clothes. It's as simple as that.

[PrinceOfCats]

Which ill-fitting clothes? I don't see them.

[JuiceMajor]

getting hot in here...is there a moderator on duty?

[2Nova]

see now this i am excited about... sadly though the H&M near me does not carry their designer collections

i think the one in Syracuse does though... that's KINDA close?!

[Mutterlein]

Originally Posted by Street_a_Licious

i just asked why everyone was so excited about ill-fitting garments. and screw your "following the norm" comment. you are just following a different norm. different, yes, still a norm.



-1: i am SE-Asian.

-2: even in Japan's history, fit was important. while no restrictive, there was a big difference between, lets say, an ill fitting kimono and well fitting kimono. japanese samurai armor is a lot more comfortable than the european pendant. but not because the fit looked off. samurais don't look like they wear garments which don't fit them.

why do you think there was the obi? to give definition. people who could afford it had their clothes custom made. even back then there was no "one size fit all" style.

So that qualifies your opinion and not mine? I'm Asian too, but I wouldn't dare throw that out there to bolster my argument.

And, an obi is an extremely different different device than a corset or even a girdle. And I think it's a bit telling you don't understand this. Anyways, I think you made my point for me. A kimono is inherently different than antique western dress, they work off different proportions, different construction, and different mechanics. A flat piece of cloth that adds definition is a far cry from a corset that is molded to the body and reinforced with metal boning. Don't have to be Asian to understand this either.

[Street_a_Licious]

good god, i never talked about neither a girdle NOR a corset. it gives definition to the waist. but not in the girdle/corset way. i never even mentioned either one of them.

and no, fit ain't the only factor, quality of the fabric, the design, the look is also important. but a good fit is part of the whole equation.

[kiddokiddo]

*please keep the thread on topic. Any off topic comment or discussion will be deleted. Thank you

[softgrey]

i need to just step in here and let everyone know that we MUST refrain from any personal attacks...

to disagree and debate in an intelligent and thoughtful manner is encouraged completely....
but to insult anyone who does not agree with you is not acceptable ...
* and it does nothing to further your point of view either..

so please keep that in mind should you choose to respond to anything posted in this thread going forward...

thanks!


* i just want to make a point here...
some people seem to be confusing 'fitted' with what it means for something to fit well...
fitted clothing is clothing that is structured/constructed to fit closely to the body...
as opposed to
'tight' which will actually touch and squeeze the body..
and 'unstructured or deconstructed' which intentionally are not intended to follow the line of the body


so to say that clothing that is intentionally designed not to be 'fitted' does not fit well is simply incorrect...
the fit is as it is designed to be...
of course...some people will not like that look...
but that does not mean the clothing does not fit well...
it fits as it is intended to...and some people obviously love it

i don't love it all the time...
but she gets my attention and i keep watching...

[Mutterlein]

Originally Posted by Street_a_Licious

good god, i never talked about neither a girdle NOR a corset. it gives definition to the waist. but not in the girdle/corset way. i never even mentioned either one of them.

and no, fit ain't the only factor, quality of the fabric, the design, the look is also important. but a good fit is part of the whole equation.

My point with mentioning the use of the corset was to illustrate the entirely different historical and aesthetic conception of fit and body between eastern and western dress. You didn't agree and cited an obi as being a device that fits around the waist and adds definition. I think the two are apples and oranges. Good god, didn't think it was that difficult of a concept.

But to bring it back on topic. I think even Rei is aware of the corset and its place in western dress. If you look at the dress in the H&M collection, as another poster already highlighted, there's that faux corset appliqué which contrary to a real corset's purpose does not in fact fit the body only creating an illusion. It's a direct play on the dynamics between eastern/western dynamic of body conception and dress... which is no surprise as it's how CDG and other Japanese labels made their mark in the late 70's/early 80's in Paris.

[softgrey]

Originally Posted by Mutterlein

My point with mentioning the use of the corset was to illustrate the entirely different historical and aesthetic conception of fit and body between eastern and western dress. You didn't agree and cited an obi as being a device that fits around the waist and adds definition. I think the two are apples and oranges. Good god, didn't think it was that difficult of a concept.

But to bring it back on topic. I think even Rei is aware of the corset and its place in western dress. If you look at the dress in the H&M collection, as another poster already highlighted, there's that faux corset appliqué which contrary to a real corset's purpose does not in fact fit the body only creating an illusion. It's a direct play on the dynamics between eastern/western dynamic of body conception and dress... which is no surprise as it's how CDG and other Japanese labels made their mark in the late 70's/early 80's in Paris.

i think that was me who said that...
what i think that coat/dress is the perfect example of is the idea of 'androgyny'...

which is to ME, ' how CDG and other Japanese labels made their mark in the late 70's/early 80's in Paris.'


androgyny means to have qualities of both male and female...
as opposed to unisex...
so the coat is bigger than the dress because that is basically how it would be if you put a man's suit on and then a dress over it...
*can you tell that i tried on the original runway version...??!!??
...
it was GI.NORMOUS!!!...


and it was over $3000 as someone else said..
so if this H&M version is $300-400 that isn't so bad really....

[Mutterlein]

Originally Posted by softgrey

i think that was me who said that...
what i think that coat/dress is the perfect example of is the idea of 'androgyny'...

which is to ME, ' how CDG and other Japanese labels made their mark in the late 70's/early 80's in Paris.'

I think it was several different things, certainly androgyny was a big part of it.

Androgyny gets to the core of the fit issue with the coat. Like softgrey said, the fit was certainly considered and I'm sure the dress went through a fitting process during development and production, but is it fitted on the basis of what we expect for a woman? Nope, neither is a lot of Marni.

Should be interesting to see the dress in person, more interesting to see someone buy and wear it too.

[ms-nietzsche]

Originally Posted by softgrey

so the coat is bigger than the dress because that is basically how it would be if you put a man's suit on and then a dress over it...
*can you tell that i tried on the original runway version...??!!??
...
it was GI.NORMOUS!!!...


and it was over $3000 as someone else said..
so if this H&M version is $300-400 that isn't so bad really....

I never thought of it that way but I do like that idea

[sirellyomg]

im sorry, im sure that it has been posted when this collection is going to be released, but i am too lazy to look through this forum.

does anyone know when this collection will be in stores?