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02-01-2013
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I am sorry to say but slim skinny blazers and drainpipe trousers are not classic, Hedi basically took Teenage Teddy Boy/Rockabilly fashion and culture from the 60s shrunk them down even more and made it new for a new generation. Hedi is quite talented but his biggest problem is his total fixation on certain looks and images and his lack of flexibility in his designs and taking constructive criticism.

Honestly looking again at his ad campaigns for YSL men's and the "skinny" it looks geared towards 15 or 16 year old teenage rockers or hobos of Venice Beach in Los Angeles. I don't see the YSL man in this at all, unless he is a perpetual 16 year old boy for life.


Last edited by disco54; 02-01-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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03-01-2013
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Originally Posted by Zazie View Post
What I find puzzling is Slimane limiting himself while others, some of whom I mentioned, are pushing boundaries. CdG, for example, is worn by all sorts, *, young and old, some collections are thin and pared down, others blown out of proportion, no one ever questions if she's "stuck", because she isn't, yet she has her own recognizable style, her signature. Ditto Martin Margiela, Helmut Lang, Jil Sander, NG for Balenciaga. I can also think of many other superstar designers who got into a rut and burn out. Hope Slimane's not one of them.
well Margiela left fashion couple years ago, Mr.Lang almost a decade ago, Jil has returned after a long hiatus (but exiling Raf Simons in the process), Nicolas Ghesquiere just left Balenciaga, and i guess you could add Christophe Decarnin to the list.. there is an obvious pattern here especially since all these designers have something in common, a certain minimalistic vision that seems more in touch with fine arts then the mass appeal credo of the financial conglomerates that run these respective houses. it simply can't be easy to stick to a specific vision in this day and age where repetition is seen as failure and we are constantly trying to re-invent the wheel for fast fashion appeal. It certainly is risky for Hedi to stick so closely to his past formula, but on the other hand i respect the integrity of sticking to what you know best no matter how non innovative you might be percieved. I don't see it necessarily as repetition but rather as being consistent or cohesive. Again that does not mean you cannot evolve but I will give the benefit of the doubt here knowing what i believe is a strong potential.. i'm definitely anticipating the next act..


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Originally Posted by disco54 View Post
I am sorry to say but slim skinny blazers and drainpipe trousers are not classic, Hedi basically took Teenage Teddy Boy/Rockabilly fashion and culture from the 60s shrunk them down even more and made it new for a new generation. Hedi is quite talented but his biggest problem is his total fixation on certain looks and images and his lack of flexibility in his designs and taking constructive criticism.

Honestly looking again at his ad campaigns for YSL men's and the "skinny" it looks geared towards 15 or 16 year old teenage rockers or hobos of Venice Beach in Los Angeles. I don't see the YSL man in this at all, unless he is a perpetual 16 year old boy for life.
Hedi certainly has an unhealthy obsession with youth, but hey that is what inspires him. as far as era/culture influences, his work at dior homme proved it goes way beyond 60s teddy boy & rockabilly. AW05 was pure Rolling Stones 70's. SS06 was 80's mod/skin with MJ/Bowie influences. etc etc.. there is always a strong link with music & youth culture movements, yet revisited indeed in streamlined "shrunken" versions with a luxurious sophistication.. I will however say that the main difference with Dior Homme is that YSL already has a strong identity & archive (and i mean pre-Ford/Pilati) and since Saint Laurent is supposedly a re-boot to the spirit of early YSL it's going to be interesting to see if he can successfully apply his vision while retaining the codes of that era. i think it's within this context that his presentations should be judged..

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03-01-2013
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Originally Posted by Izreal View Post
well Margiela left fashion couple years ago, Mr.Lang almost a decade ago, Jil has returned after a long hiatus (but exiling Raf Simons in the process), Nicolas Ghesquiere just left Balenciaga, and i guess you could add Christophe Decarnin to the list.. there is an obvious pattern here especially since all these designers have something in common, a certain minimalistic vision that seems more in touch with fine arts then the mass appeal credo of the financial conglomerates that run these respective houses. it simply can't be easy to stick to a specific vision in this day and age where repetition is seen as failure and we are constantly trying to re-invent the wheel for fast fashion appeal. It certainly is risky for Hedi to stick so closely to his past formula, but on the other hand i respect the integrity of sticking to what you know best no matter how non innovative you might be percieved. I don't see it necessarily as repetition but rather as being consistent or cohesive. Again that does not mean you cannot evolve but I will give the benefit of the doubt here knowing what i believe is a strong potential.. i'm definitely anticipating the next act..
I thought we're discussing design relevance and setting fashion directions and conjuring vision, not how they made bad business decisions, got preyed on, sold out their companies to CEOs they can't stand and fought with, etc.

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03-01-2013
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unfortunately i don't think you can dissociate the business aspect of the fashion industry with the design direction, especially in this day and age. all these houses now belong to groups and that's just the way it is. designers are kind of puppets in their hands hence the musical chairs.. i am however glad hedi has landed back to where he originally started at the house of YSL, i must admit i share pierre berge's enthusiasm but also dismay towards the tom ford and pilati era. nothing personal but i just find the gucci/armani influence they brought a bad influence (dare i say bad taste) for the house of YSL. of course the hedi critics are going to bring up the whole misshapes club/street culture influence he brings which in surface sounds at odds with the high reputation and sophistication the name YSL brings to mind today, but as already mentioned, hedi's envisioned a reboot back to the early spirit of YSL which not many realize was all about sexual and cultural revolution. Yves & Pierre has some pretty strong social, intellectual and therefore political engagements that i think they find are present in Hedi's pedigree and therefore vision for the house..

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03-01-2013
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Hedi's designs have always been based on classic and timeless silhouettes. As you've mentioned Izreal, there is always a certain sophistication that is the underlying structure throughout the Hedi DNA-- and I'll add a certain refinement that's never contrived, so that when you see the pieces on their own, they take on a different life that's not limited to his ideal of what fashion should be. And I think that's Hedi's strength-- that despite his very severe and elitist presentation of what his vision of high fashion is, his designs are quite versatile-- when he was designing for Dior Homme, anyway. Here in Canada, there's Harry Rosen, which caters to the Wall Street types (Bay Street here in Toronto), so their selections are very conservative, and yet, they carried Dior Homme suits. And Wall Street is the furthest of what the ideal Dior Homme male is to Hedi, I would imagine.

I think he'll need some time before he finds his bearings when it comes to designing for women. Hedi's an intelligent, talented and skillful designer, and if he was able to cut such a strong identity in menswear-- which is always much more difficult to design than womenswear, than I do think he'll be able to contribute something special for womenswear, in time. And as you've mentioned Scott, women also wore Dior Homme, and in many instances, I find they look so much better in it than men. Maybe he should concentrate on evolving his menswear from 2005 first, then further evolve that to include womenswear, instead of plunging headfirst into the latter. He seems to be Pierre's Berge's golden child, so I would think he'll be afforded the luxury of time that some others may not be given to refine and progress his work.

However, if he's still doing the samo, samo 3 seasons in, then I'll relegate him next to Tom Ford.

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03-01-2013
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I would hardly categorize Hedi's silhouettes as classic and timeless lol, classic looks do not take on such extreme and severe lithe proportions. His suiting is a riff of what Teddy Boys in London use to wear, if thats a classic, then on the same token, a demob suit would merit that same honor.


Last edited by disco54; 03-01-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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03-01-2013
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well timeless & classic is a bit subjective anyways i guess...

*do not make personal attacks on members, keep discussions civil, please**


Last edited by MulletProof; 03-01-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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03-01-2013
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disco54: I never said Hedi's designs are classic-- I stated they are always based on classic forms. He's able to reinvent such classics as tuxedo suitings, redingotes, trench and frock coats with his distinct take, which appeals greatly to me for their restraint but never minimalist design and structure. The best designers are able to do that, whereas the weak ones are always copying others and simply making it trendy and accessible. If all Hedi did was change the colors or added embellishments to the classics untouched, he would only be a tailor at Savile Row. Hedi deconstructed the classics beautifully, to me anyway.

I'm curious to know what you would consider classics then? You keep referencing Teddy Boys/Rockabilly to Hedi's design references as if that's all he uses-- and that's simply not true. And even so, Teddy Boys and Rockabillies have endured since the 1950s on, so wouldn't that make them, by definition, a classic?

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04-01-2013
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@ mulletproof: fwiw my comment was not meant as a personal attack, like the person above i was just curious what disco54 considered to be timeless & classic, *do not make personal attacks on members, please. For information on moderated actions, please contact moderator**


Last edited by MulletProof; 04-01-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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04-01-2013
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unfortunately i don't think you can dissociate the business aspect of the fashion industry with the design direction, especially in this day and age...
Hmm...you do realize that having left a big brand, not just once, but *twice*, does place Heidi Slimane in the same category as those you mentioned, NG, Jil Sander, MM, etc.?

I think this opinion, that somehow design brilliance is blighted by unsuccessful tenure at big corporations, is somewhat fringe - most of us here, who still post threads about the design careers of MM, Helmut Lang, NG, Jil Sander (when she was in the wilderness), didn't let their quarrels with their respective CEOs affect our esteem for their status as fashion legends. Business, art and creativity mostly exist in separate universe, many great artists never sold their works profitably in their lifetime and the reverse is also true - commercially successful designers and brands do not always command the same awe and respect, some of the biggest fashions businesses out there come to mind, from high-street to high-end.

In the end, critics' opinions matter little when the concepts, ideas and looks catch on like a virus. However, other than staunch (verbal) support from bloggers and twitters, I haven't noticed the looks by Slimane coveted and copied by the fashion crowd and in the streets, even after it was worn by Lady Gaga, the ultimate uber-celebrity.

I'm super practical, I don't have personal biases about designers, I am only bothered by badly designed collections.

Here's hoping that Slimane shuts his critics up with his next collection!


Last edited by Zazie; 04-01-2013 at 08:56 AM.
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04-01-2013
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Hmm...you do realize that having left a big brand, not just once, but *twice*, does place Heidi Slimane in the same category as those you mentioned, NG, Jil Sander, MM, etc.?
yes definitely

Quote:
I think this opinion, that somehow design brilliance is blighted by unsuccessful tenure at big corporations, is somewhat fringe - most of us here, who still post threads about the design careers of MM, Helmut Lang, NG, Jil Sander (when she was in the wilderness), didn't let their quarrels with their respective CEOs affect our esteem for their status as fashion legends.
me neither, but i don't see how any of this proves my observations to be incorrect?

Quote:
Business, art and creativity mostly exist in separate universe, many great artists never sold their works profitably in their lifetime and the reverse is also true - commercially successful designers and brands do not always command the same awe and respect, some of the biggest fashions businesses out there come to mind, from high-street to high-end.
true although i'm not quite sure what your exact point is anymore tbh..


Quote:
In the end, critics' opinions matter little when the concepts, ideas and looks catch on like a virus. However, other than staunch (verbal) support from bloggers and twitters, I haven't noticed the looks by Slimane coveted and copied by the fashion crowd and in the streets, even after it was worn by Lady Gaga, the ultimate uber-celebrity.
well the actual runway looks aren't the easiest to emulate, and i'd like to think that's a good thing.. as for the rest of the collection, it isn't even in stores yet so perhaps a bit early to pass judgement on it's success? (i predict it will be a hit but let's wait until we're at least halfway in the new season..)

by the way i was passing by the grenelle store the other day and noticed it's in complete renovation with the new logo in place..

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04-01-2013
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Haha...maybe we misunderstood each other. Agreed, business has no business getting in the way of great art.

Would love to see some pics if HS had a hand in designing the look of the new Grenelle boutique

It's not to my taste but if stetson hats and pussy bows start sprouting in the streets, then it would seem HS had hit a home run.

Still, for all the so-called rivalry between RS at Dior and HS at YSL, the first big-name debut collection that moved me to tears was by Christophe Lemaire despite the lukewarm reviews. It never left me, and only when I visited Dubai's desert that it struck me - he has not only distilled the aristocratic DNA of Hermes, he had also brought to life a noble new creature that is entirely his, and I *long* to be *her*, with my seamless Mongolian cashmere coat, falcon, bow and arrows. He didn't manage to repeat that impact, unfortunately, for unknown reasons...

When we all wait with impatience a fashion show, we all hope to be entranced by it. I think deep inside we wish for the designer great success, an unforgettable collection that adds to fashion history, so hope to see Heidi Slimane deliver a coup de grace for all of us next Fall 2013/14.


Last edited by Zazie; 04-01-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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04-01-2013
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Would love to see some pics if HS had a hand in designing the look of the new Grenelle boutique
here is a pic i snapped outside:


a peak of what's to come inside:
http://www.ysl.fr/en_GB/stores

i still have a dream YSL will reacquire the St.Sulpice location (it breaks my heart and i've read hedi's too as to what it's become)

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04-01-2013
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here is a pic i snapped outside:

a peak of what's to come inside:
http://www.ysl.fr/en_GB/stores

i still have a dream YSL will reacquire the St.Sulpice location (it breaks my heart and i've read hedi's too as to what it's become)

Ooooh...black and white veined marble, gold and mirrors in strict reflecting, echoing geometry creating infinity....it's sleek as Tom Ford would only dream, beautiful work! Merci beaucoup for the head's up!

What I do like about HS is that for all the drama, he exhibits a deep desire to take YSL to a purer, higher place, so full marks for his commitment.

Yes, Rue St Sulpice is historic memory....but why did HS then move to LA? To me, it is inexplicable as a design move, even if Paris is too much baggage.

The LA touches, the hats, the bows, are very "Hollywood" type gestures, derivative meaning of the original, to me all obscured his YSL vision, they are an unattractive distraction, when purity lies in his heart, his desires, as reflected in the design of this boutique space.


Last edited by Zazie; 04-01-2013 at 11:06 AM.
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04-01-2013
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Yes, Rue St Sulpice is historic memory....but why did HS then move to LA? To me, it is inexplicable as a design move, even if Paris is too much baggage.
he moved to LA right after Dior to pursue photography, but i think you answered this question yourself earlier... to dissociate his artistic/creative work from the business & corporate side which would interfere with his daily work where he to be in the HQ.. i'm sure there are a bunch of other reasons, i don't see it as that big of a deal (he's regularly going back & forth really)

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