How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Front Row / Designers and Collections
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
08-10-2012
  316
front row
 
Izreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 238
don't get me wrong i am not head over heels concerning the collection (no pun intended). but i do appreciate he is bringing a certain standard in construction. even something as basic as denim is now given the [japanese] selvage treatment, which for those that know denim is the absolute authentic most artisan way of constructing a pair of jeans. in a certain way all this is elevating the quality of YSL garments, and like you said possibly of womenswear in general..

  Reply With Quote
 
08-10-2012
  317
front row
 
thisismyname's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: USA
Gender: femme
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izreal View Post
don't get me wrong i am not head over heels concerning the collection (no pun intended). but i do appreciate he is bringing a certain standard in construction. even something as basic as denim is now given the [japanese] selvage treatment, which for those that know denim is the absolute authentic most artisan way of constructing a pair of jeans. in a certain way all this is elevating the quality of YSL garments, and like you said possibly of womenswear in general..
Although from the pictures, the clothes do appear to be well-made, this detail doesn't demonstrate to me any bit of "elevated" construction. J.Crew, for example, has been offering selvage denim for at least 3 years... If this is supposed to be luxury, I need something more than that. Something more than what is already on sale in malls.

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  318
fashion insider
 
advo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Gender: femme
Posts: 2,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by VogueDisciple93 View Post
The first bag (in post #308) reminds me of a Birkin...
And the other Celine Classic/Hermes Constance.

Maybe his RTW collection will sell but what about the accessories? Because it's always been my understanding that the designer houses makes much more money on the latter. Furthermore, it was my belief that YSL bags and accessories still sold very well. Now he's reconstructed or discontinued popular models. From a business POV, it makes zero sense to me.

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  319
front row
 
Izreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 238
I understand certain people are discontent and confused with the new direction (to put things mildly) but i'm not sure what you guys were expecting. This is Saint Laurent by Hedi Slimane, it's him doing his thing, like it or not it's being very consistent with his past aesthetic. Sure they'll lose past customers but will gain new ones, it's not that risky of a move as Hedi has a much bigger following then Pilati, every buyer knows this so don't worry sales should be fine, including accessories..

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismyname View Post
Although from the pictures, the clothes do appear to be well-made, this detail doesn't demonstrate to me any bit of "elevated" construction. J.Crew, for example, has been offering selvage denim for at least 3 years... If this is supposed to be luxury, I need something more than that. Something more than what is already on sale in malls.
I don't want to go too far off topic, but selvage denim is undisputedly superior to any regular denim, please do some research. now within selvage denim there are various qualities just like an h&m cashmere sweater won't be the same quality as a triple needle Hermes, still cashmere > polyester hope you understand the analogy. anyways what makes this luxury is not just the fabric & construction but also the cut & the design. i believe this collection ticks all the right boxes for the most part..

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  320
fashion insider
 
advo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Gender: femme
Posts: 2,235
^I'm not confused by his direction. I'm confused by PPR's decision to hire him. Yes, like you said new customers will replace those who left. But I thought the point was to increase the customer base? Therefore, they should try to keep some of the old customers for who's to say Hedi's new take will bring on more than they lose?

As for accessories. The new ones look like knocking off from other brands - that's not a good thing regardless of if that's just his aesthetics. The reconstructed ones are even weirder. Like a half job between not trying to offend old customers and yet "updating" them to suit his style. It's OK if people like it - say the updated version of Tod's bags - however if they don't, then it's going to be an issue. And my point is that the old models were selling very, very well. Hence the decision to discontinue and even reconstruct is completely bizarre. Phoebe came in and gave Celine an overhaul but its accessories were selling poorly!

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  321
front row
 
Izreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 238
You're confused they hired out of retirement one of the most successful and acclaimed designers in recent times? a man that was hired by Pierre at YSL in 1996? A man admired by Yves Saint Laurent himself? A man that completely re-invented Dior and made it a successful house for 7 years? I'm sorry I'm the one a bit confused here! As for the retirement of past items it's quite simple, Pilati & Slimane's aesthetic and direction are in total contradiction, it would be even more bizarre to have these two styles juxtaposed, a complete overhaul was the only way...for better or for worst depending on your point of view of course.. finally concerning the obvious cues from classic models. Hedi has always done this, at Dior Homme every season he'd take a classic and "Slimanify" it, look at it more like a tribute then a copy...

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  322
V.I.P.
 
agee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Georgia
Gender: femme
Posts: 6,113
It would not be a shock to me if this collection is deemed a best seller, after all Ralph Lauren is one of the, if not the, best selling designer labels. I do think that the collection as presented lacked coherence and seamlessness, and I think that it is fair to criticize it on that basis. To me if I were Slimane and the other powers that be, I would see it as that as an area to improve but I think that at the end of the day, a design house, especially in the short term, may find appealing to the buyers more heartening than appealing to professional and arm chair critics.

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  323
fashion insider
 
advo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Gender: femme
Posts: 2,235
OK, let's see if I can be more clear. I'm confused why they hired "one of the most successful and acclaimed designers in recent times" to overhaul a business that was doing just fine. Yes, the RTW needed a revival. But it's the least profitable area of the business! So reviving the RTW at the expanse of their cashcow - the accessories - is beyond crazy. Does that clear up your confusion?

Pilati & Slimane's aesthetic and direction are in total contradiction, it would be even more bizarre to have these two styles juxtaposed, a complete overhaul was the only way

Which explains even less the "reconstructed" models.

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  324
front row
 
Izreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 238
..it was perhaps doing fine on a economic standpoint but it doesn't mean it was the right choice for the house. hedi has the right pedigree for ysl, besides he's parisian and has worked under yves & at dior, it's a much more logical choice then pilati, a milanese formed at armani...especially now that dior has raf, ysl couldn't remain idle in the chess game.. also you don't seem to realize that perfume & accessories might be the "cashcow" but are worthless without strong runway impact


Last edited by Izreal; 08-10-2012 at 08:02 PM.
  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  325
fashion insider
 
advo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Gender: femme
Posts: 2,235
^In business, the only standpoint that matters is the economic. The measure for this collection is also whether or not it can sell - and more importantly, sell accessories.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but does his track record for "pedigree", "success" and "acclaim" not only cover menswear? So it might be a bit premature to assume just because he was successful at menswear, the same can be applied to womenswear. I think his aesthetics fit well with menswear. I also think his aesthetics could fit with womenswear, including YSL. I just didn't see it in this collection.

also you don't seem to realize that perfume & accessories might be the "cashcow" but are worthless without strong runway impact
That is a completely contradictory statement.


Last edited by advo; 08-10-2012 at 08:04 PM.
  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  326
front row
 
Izreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by advo View Post

Pilati & Slimane's aesthetic and direction are in total contradiction, it would be even more bizarre to have these two styles juxtaposed, a complete overhaul was the only way

Which explains even less the "reconstructed" models.
not at all, the "reconstructed models" are items hedi considers iconic, they're revisited with a twist. this has nothing to do with pilati's style & influences or whatever model you may redeem as successful..

Quote:
Originally Posted by advo View Post
also you don't seem to realize that perfume & accessories might be the "cashcow" but are worthless without strong runway impact
That is a completely contradictory statement.
it isn't...the runway impact creates the momentum, hype & desire that sells related items such as accessories and the ever affordable perfume..it's called trickle down effect..

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  327
fashion insider
 
advo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Gender: femme
Posts: 2,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izreal View Post
not at all, the "reconstructed models" are items hedi considers iconic, they're revisited with a twist. this has nothing to do with pilati's style & influences or whatever model you may redeem as successful..
I can see on the website that he kept the Muse and ChYc lines. Which are Pilati designs. And frankly, I find the new ChYc bags hilarious considering how prominent the Y still is. I wouldn't think that fit in with Slimane's aesthetics so I have a hard time believing they are "adjusted" to fit in with his vision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izreal View Post
it isn't...the runway impact creates the momentum, hype & desire that sells related items such as accessories and the ever affordable perfume..it's called trickle down effect..
It is a contradictory statement when you conceded that they are cashcows -- and considers Pilati's RTW vision for YSL weak. The accessories etc. were selling just fine without a "strong runway impact", hence they are certainly not "worthless".

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  328
fashion insider
 
advo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Gender: femme
Posts: 2,235
One last comment before I leave.

Quote:
besides he's parisian and has worked under yves & at dior, it's a much more logical choice then pilati, a milanese formed at armani...
I'm sure you didn't mean to, but this could be read as discriminatory. Tom Ford is American, Philo is British, Galliano is British and there are so many other examples that prove your statement wrong.

  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  329
Power to the 99%
 
fashionista-ta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hardly ever at Barney's
Gender: femme
Posts: 13,728
Wrt Pilati, I realize this is somewhat a matter of taste, and I was never his biggest fan (and really disliked the heavily structured look he started with), but I looked at just about everything available at retail this past summer as I was shopping for a wedding, and repeatedly Pilati's designs stood out as very strong in comparison with what else is out there.

Obviously the powers that be decided they wanted a change, but there is no question in my mind that as of 2012, Pilati is the stronger designer of womenswear, and that his final work for the house was quite good.

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out ...

I'm also interested to know whether the size range will accommodate all the women who wore Dior Homme.

__________________
There's a need for more individuality today, and my job is to cater to women, not dictate to them.
--Alber Elbaz
  Reply With Quote
08-10-2012
  330
Hell on Heels
 
mistress_f's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rome
Gender: femme
Posts: 5,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by advo View Post
One last comment before I leave.



I'm sure you didn't mean to, but this could be read as discriminatory. Tom Ford is American, Philo is British, Galliano is British and there are so many other examples that prove your statement wrong.
Also, Hedi is a french man whose obsessions include british indie kids (some of the looks in this collection screamed pete doherty in 2007) and seemingly los angeles it girls (see all the rachel zoe comment in here and elsewhere). It's not like he makes his being french a strong point in his aesthetic.

__________________
photographic | Website | blog
Instgrm
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
2013, laurent, paris, s or s, saint
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 AM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. 2014 All rights reserved.