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08-10-2012
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^ Who was it who said, All true Parisians live in Los Angeles? Oh wait, no one said that

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09-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advo View Post
I can see on the website that he kept the Muse and ChYc lines. Which are Pilati designs. And frankly, I find the new ChYc bags hilarious considering how prominent the Y still is. I wouldn't think that fit in with Slimane's aesthetics so I have a hard time believing they are "adjusted" to fit in with his vision.
The reason you still see Pilati designs for sale on the site is because we currently are in FW12: a collection designed by Pilati. YSL is in transition right now but you can be sure slowly but surely they are phasing out the Pilati line/stock..

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Originally Posted by advo View Post
One last comment before I leave.

I'm sure you didn't mean to, but this could be read as discriminatory. Tom Ford is American, Philo is British, Galliano is British and there are so many other examples that prove your statement wrong.
pulling the race card huh? this is so silly, I never talked about nations, i mentioned cities...in a fashion context... i just find that Hedi has a lot more in common with Yves Saint Laurent, then Pilati.. and this can be traced by his Parisian studies & career path that landed him at YSL in 1996, and then at Dior for 7 years: this Parisian experience/pedigree simply places him as more logical choice then someone whose background is with Armani. There is nothing discriminatory in this statement, I love Milan btw, my partner lives there..


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Originally Posted by mistress_f View Post
Also, Hedi is a french man whose obsessions include british indie kids (some of the looks in this collection screamed pete doherty in 2007) and seemingly los angeles it girls (see all the rachel zoe comment in here and elsewhere). It's not like he makes his being french a strong point in his aesthetic.
i disagree...but perhaps you're idea of being french is edith piaf, wine & cheese and beret hats? regardless again what i mentioned was paris not france.. hedi is obsessed with music & youth, paris is a great crossroad for both, he could often being seen at night in the local bar/club scene. this is of course where the "it" factor comes in, as many know Paris is also one of the central nerves of the fashionista & celebrity system... YSL had a similar lifestyle in the 70's/80's, always being spotted at the it places with his crew of bohemian socialites.. yet behind superficial appearances was a real political revolutionary engagement.. again Hedi studied Sciences-Politique and worked for Le Monde.. Yves & Pierre were obsessed with contemporary art, Hedi did les Beaux-Arts and is a photographer since age 11...so many parallels really that all fit in the "Rive Gauche" aesthetic and attitude... I'm sorry none of you seem to see it...

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Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
^ Who was it who said, All true Parisians live in Los Angeles? Oh wait, no one said that
the reason hedi exiled himself to LA was to escape the pressure of the Paris fashion scene & remain somewhat independent from corporate (the same reasons that made him leave paris & fashion in the first place 5 years ago). it's perhaps sad symbolically but is apparently a necessary step as he is more fragile then one thinks, especially in view of the recent events..


Last edited by Izreal; 09-10-2012 at 04:41 AM.
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09-10-2012
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Saint Laurent is apparently for the moment still keeping quite a hand full of Pilati-era accessories' and footwear lines as a side sell to Slimane's latest offerings, so no, there is no complete cut with the past. This should on the other hand allow Slimane to take things a step slower-paced at developing his own leather goods range - He hasn't had that much of a commercial cash cow at Dior Homme in that regard and I do not see those first leather goods as being close contenders for a new 'hit' handbag as the Célines or even something as niche as The Row's very successful ultra-upscale bags range. Perhaps he'll need to hire somebody specifically for the handbags, surely for a house as big as Saint Laurent, you cannot neglect such potentially profitable product categories.

Concerning the denim, I also do wonder whether the latest Saint Laurent jeans will keep up the same popularity as when Dior Homme was at the peak of it's success - What I can see so far are relatively basic washes and not too many recognizable 'trademarks' such as Dior's easily identifiable darted back pockets and custom hardware, besides the fact that the jeans have not been given a particularly strong focus on the runway, unlike at Dior Homme, where there have always been a few key denim styles to be seen on the runway.

Also, I do not want to necessarily de-mystify the matter, but Japanese Selvedge denim is more of a prestige and preference in style than an actual quality upgrade - Those fabrics are woven on vintage looms and the characteristics are irregularities that modern industry looms do not produce. A.P.C's classical raw denim line makes use of Japanese selvedge denim since day one, Slimane apparently wore their 'New Standards' at the very beginning of his tenure at Dior, so it wouldn't surprise me if the cut of his Dior denim's was loosely based around those.


Last edited by tricotineacetat; 09-10-2012 at 05:13 AM.
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09-10-2012
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a-ha...now we're talking... selvage denim is a type of denim which forms a clean natural edge that does not unravel. Selvage is desirable because the edge cannot fray like denim made on a projectile loom that has separate wefts, which leave an open edge that must be stitched. it really is superior to "Regular" denim, and really shows it's properties with age/fade. As you know Hedi is a fan of denim, and of course it's known he indeed was inspired by APC's raw NS.

Concerning the new line of denim at SL, i actually think denim is going to be taken even more seriously then at DH. There are already 2 lines dedicated to this: Saint Laurent Skinny & Saint Laurent Selvage. Concerning the simplified design, I am personally enchanted, as a denim afficionado and purist, I cannot stand back-pocket designs and other ornaments (other than on vintage Levis for accuracy & historical reasons), and pre-washed/distressed jeans is actually sacrilegious in the raw denim community. I've even sold most of my DH pairs as I found the darts have become tacky and the brand association ruined by KvA.. I have moved over to Balmain's straight leg model for my lux denim needs, and otherwise obscure Japanese brands. The element i will probably miss the most is the front hook closing that i though brought a certain rafinement to the other wise casual nature of denim, but i am eager to discover the new fit...


Last edited by Izreal; 09-10-2012 at 05:42 AM.
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09-10-2012
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I can't say any of my Dior (non selvedge) raw denims have kept up worse than the A.P.C's I've also worn for a long time. The difference in actual quality/performance is not as crass as between goodyear-welted and glued shoes or a fully-canvassed, sartorial jacket next to a fused one - I am also highly doubting that the majority of Saint Laurent's target audience will base their buying decisions on those very principles, let alone their women's customers, to whom selling raw denim is probably as exotic as a blazer constructed like a men's jacket.

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09-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricotineacetat View Post
All of the 'flou' part in the collection needs a bit further development, I don't think he got it exactly right at this part, most of the efforts to try a more classically 'feminine' hand so far seem like a show-statement only - I am highly doubting that long bias-cut caftan robes and red carpet dresses are key to a lot of women's needs, he will eventually need to come up with a more convincing formula than ruffles and poet sleeves galore or the ultra-spare, overpriced tunic dresses with shoulder pads that the YSL website presently offers - those pieces show his apprentice-status as a dressmaker, naturally so as he has so far never tried his hand on 'proper' womenswear (similar to Raf Simons' earliest attempts at Jil Sander).
I've thoroughly enjoyed your comments in this thread, including the ones after this comment but I chose this one to respond to...

I agree, once separated out and the "Rachel Zoe" sensibility removed it indeed smacks of Slimane's touch, which, I love for the new YSL.

As far as tailoring goes, it is exciting to see the craftsmanship go up a notch, the new look of Saint Laurent is also a new approach in RTW, as you mentioned. I do expect however, as seasons pass, he'll start considering how to move on from the traditional jacket, expand on its vocabulary, and offer women the same solutions in a more modern, less fussy, way. And this is when I think we'll see Slimane really shine.

And yes, the Flou is problematic. I guess none of us can be surprised, though you wonder why they don't just hire a talented dress designer to come in and work out the kinks.

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09-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricotineacetat View Post
I can't say any of my Dior (non selvedge) raw denims have kept up worse than the A.P.C's I've also worn for a long time. The difference in actual quality/performance is not as crass as between goodyear-welted and glued shoes or a fully-canvassed, sartorial jacket next to a fused one
..and your examples maybe considered crass compared to quality/performance differences in between a nissan and a porsche engine... this is all relative to each one of course, but in the denim world raw selvage denim is highly regarded as the most authentic and finest quality of construction. wether you consider this an important detail or not is another story.. but i think it brings us closer to the level of artisanship which i find is often lacking in high-fashion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tricotineacetat View Post
I am also highly doubting that the majority of Saint Laurent's target audience will base their buying decisions on those very principles, let alone their women's customers, to whom selling raw denim is probably as exotic as a blazer constructed like a men's jacket.
does it really matter? why even go selvage then, the process is a lot more expensive? i think hedi sets a certain standard for himself first and foremost. a lot of the beauty in the dior homme garments i found were sometimes hidden details, things you wouldn't even notice when purchasing an item let alone seeing a picture of it. of course if your idea of luxury is a big fat gold Y logo, well all this might fly way over your head, but those that know will acknowledge the effort and hopefully salute the philosophy behind it.. as for your comment on women and raw denim i find this view a bit passé, i see women in raw denim everyday even if the skinny models usually contain elastane.. i do think the 2 new lines are more geared towards men (if you look at the campaign) but hedi's made it no secret he believes in a kind of unisex exchangeable wardrobe, a lot of the online items are even the same exact in both men/women section...

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09-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
^ Who was it who said, All true Parisians live in Los Angeles? Oh wait, no one said that
But no one has said that many Parisians happen to really enjoy visiting Los Angeles. It's like an American version of Paris - the geography is similarly wide-spread, the people are more laid back, etc... All Parisians certainly don't take to Los Angeles but personally, I know quite a few different people who visit annually.

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09-10-2012
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Basically what Slimane did, isn't different from what Kate Moss or Alexa Chung did for Topshop or Mulberry. Except that he's not selling us his wardrobe but his friends wardrobe.

Joking. Of course, I just don't get it because my idea of luxury is a logo

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09-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izreal View Post
..and your examples maybe considered crass compared to quality/performance differences in between a nissan and a porsche engine... this is all relative to each one of course, but in the denim world raw selvage denim is highly regarded as the most authentic and finest quality of construction. wether you consider this an important detail or not is another story.. but i think it brings us closer to the level of artisanship which i find is often lacking in high-fashion..



does it really matter? why even go selvage then, the process is a lot more expensive? i think hedi sets a certain standard for himself first and foremost. a lot of the beauty in the dior homme garments i found were sometimes hidden details, things you wouldn't even notice when purchasing an item let alone seeing a picture of it. of course if your idea of luxury is a big fat gold Y logo, well all this might fly way over your head, but those that know will acknowledge the effort and hopefully salute the philosophy behind it.. as for your comment on women and raw denim i find this view a bit passé, i see women in raw denim everyday even if the skinny models usually contain elastane.. i do think the 2 new lines are more geared towards men (if you look at the campaign) but hedi's made it no secret he believes in a kind of unisex exchangeable wardrobe, a lot of the online items are even the same exact in both men/women section...
I won't respond to this further in detail as we've already gone through the matter of garment construction way further than in most other threads here on TFS, regardless of, and as far as I am concerned, that has been the undercurrent in my last few messages, is that what Slimane is doing is perfectly fine and indeed speaking to a very particular type of connaisseur for fine craftsmanship, but that ultimately is a niche clientele, just as people like Helmut Lang have always catered to a very specific, non-mainstream type of customer.

Monsieur Deneve made it pretty clear that he and Pinault are looking to grow the house of Saint Laurent bigger, aiming at the size of Dior or Chanel - In order to make that work, it will be important that it delivers easily understandable, desirable products for a larger audience than the few elitists that care for their jackets to be fully canvassed in construction or their jeans to be made of selvedge denim - It will need to be somewhat faster, more accessible fashion. All of the upgrade in quality is very commendable and adds to the integrity of the house as a leading french luxury goods player, but the major profits are being turned elsewhere.

Slimane will have to find a difficult balance between keeping his edge up that has for a long time defined the cult around his oeuvre, while at the same time opening to a mainstream clientele that he had so far never reached for with his work at Dior.

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09-10-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterlein View Post
I've thoroughly enjoyed your comments in this thread, including the ones after this comment but I chose this one to respond to...

I agree, once separated out and the "Rachel Zoe" sensibility removed it indeed smacks of Slimane's touch, which, I love for the new YSL.

As far as tailoring goes, it is exciting to see the craftsmanship go up a notch, the new look of Saint Laurent is also a new approach in RTW, as you mentioned. I do expect however, as seasons pass, he'll start considering how to move on from the traditional jacket, expand on its vocabulary, and offer women the same solutions in a more modern, less fussy, way. And this is when I think we'll see Slimane really shine.

And yes, the Flou is problematic. I guess none of us can be surprised, though you wonder why they don't just hire a talented dress designer to come in and work out the kinks.
I'm pleased to hear your appreciation, just as I enjoyed reading your contributions (among others) in the latest Jil Sander collection thread - If only I had more time to participate in these discussions, I would gladly have contributed in there as well, though I found you all summed it up so nicely that I thought there was no more to add.

Anyhow, back to Saint Laurent; I agree with you that it will be necessary for Slimane to branch out of his comfort zone of familiar technique and silhouettes - A lot of the 'couture' pieces in this collection are also heavily relying on ornamentation and while they are undeniably finished with the exquisite perfection associated with Hedi Slimane's work, you are left hungry for him to expand his technical capabilities, now that he isn't limited to only designing menswear (where a somewhat conservative keeping with traditional codes of garment making is still paramount).

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09-10-2012
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I hear craftmanship, quality, perfection, Helmut Lang mentions (the horror) and all I see from those latest pics is things I find in Topshop every once in a while.
I hope Slimane steps up his game, both in womenswear and menswear because whatever he's doing here might prove to be profitable (to a very specific type of customer no less), but there will be a whole lotta whining going on.


Last edited by Morphe; 09-10-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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09-10-2012
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Love you Suzy, with class she said this collection is crap, good!

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09-10-2012
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Lady Gaga wearing Saint Laurent harpersbazaar


Last edited by lemeray; 09-10-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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justjared

Sorry, not sure if I am allowed to post pictures of 'celebrities' but it's interesting to see how the new collection will be translated on people...


Last edited by lemeray; 09-10-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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