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04-11-2011
  46
scenester
 
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About reporting or not reporting the abuse, i think that kind of serial rapist like G.Marie they feel who is going to report and who is not. They obviously choose the girls who are weakened by family problems (like Carre whose father was an alcooholic), plus they put them in a situation that makes them even weaker like putting them on a drug addiction, (it's harder for a woman to report a rape when she takes drug), it's very psychological. we all come from different background, with different support system, some are stronger than others, and some girls or women will never report because they're just too "destroyed".

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04-11-2011
  47
clever ain't wise
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine04 View Post
Although Roman Polanksi was convicted of his crimes, he is a good example of someone who was able to use his power and influence to, so far, get out of actually serving time. He has a good number of those in Hollywood supporting him and big names going as far as signing a petition demanding he be released from Swiss custody. And now he has a movie coming out with Kate Winslet and Jodie Foster.

It's that same power and influence that protects men in the fashion industry from being held accountable for their actions. Jean Luc Brunel, John Casablancas, Claude Haddad, Terry Richardson, Gerald Marie and I'm sure countless others.

The fashion industry's response to these issues seems to be to brush it under the rug or to approach it with an almost fatalistic attitude. Small steps have been taken but much more needs to be done to protect models, in particular those who are underage.
I do think that Polanski was helped by the fact that he was not an American citizen. Also, he gets more sympathy because of the bestial Manson murder of his wife and child....

That said, realistically, if a celebrity of his stature is found to have coerced a thirteen yo girl, chances are he's done the same with countless others.

I find the behaviour of Gerald Marie and John Casablancas and their ilk to be quite reprehensible. But perhaps not as reprehensible as that of the people who capitalize on this and look the other way.

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04-11-2011
  48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedur View Post


Since reading this thread I have studied up on rape statistics and read the advice given on many rape crisis center websites. The majority of them encourage women to report the rape (in their time) and one of the main reasons they give is the fact that they will be helping others escape the same fate.

I knew my opinion was common sense but it was nice to see it backed up by the professionals.
I'm sorry, but you are the one that seems to misunderstand completely the advice given to rape victims, and in any way or form your opinion would be backed up by professionals, as an encouragement to report rape, and no one in this thread in a million years is implying that rape should not be reported, is to mention the fact by doing so, even if the person is willing to disregard the fact that a horrific crime has been committed against herself, they may want to do so because they do not want anyone to go through the same thing. It's totally different to implying to rape victim as some sort o duty towards us all, to report the rapist.
And well you saw it for yourself, rape convictions are appalling and the experience of rape victims in court in even more harrowing.

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04-11-2011
  49
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If being misinterpreted on a fashion forum is distressing, imagine the ordeal of having to stand up and defend ourselves in a court of law, where our entire character will be eviscerated by people who are professionally trained to find the tiniest flaw in what we say or do.

The process of law is not a kindly system, and it's very important to have no illusions about the entire institution and what happens when you're within it. If you've been abused, you've already been let down by people in authority, and when you enter the legal process, you're now at the mercy of another set of authorities for whom you're just another number, another sad case, another source of cash, perhaps a challenge in court to see if a certain argument will work this time.

Turning to the law doesn't ensure anything will be made better, the outcome is frequently not fair, by the standards of what we emotionally feel would be fair, because what's most important in court is to follow procedure - and instead of providing a clean and solid result that cuts crime in the future, the sentences handed down are often derisory, allowing the perpetrator to walk free after a short while, and offend again. And if you lose the case - which most women do - you've now been through another level of hell with more scars to show for it.

And that's not factoring in a multitude of other elements such as witness intimidation, people you thought you could count on failing to give you support, and having to live in your own community or working environment after you've stood up and publically accused someone of a crime.

The more you believe in the law as some abstract source of restorative justice, the more the actual process will psychologically rip you apart once you're part of it. You won't get to make yourself clear, you won't get to restate your case, you won't get the final word.

In an ideal world, everyone would be able to report such crimes with some hope of a productive outcome. Given the reality, I understand why people don't. The legal system itself needs to be altered - and without that change, an increase in people reporting such crimes would be an increase in the number of women funnelled into a situation that's designed to let them down.

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04-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa View Post
I do think that Polanski was helped by the fact that he was not an American citizen. Also, he gets more sympathy because of the bestial Manson murder of his wife and child....
True, and i do think Polanski is a terrible example of a system that "worked", I think the treatment of his victim is appalling and totally discouraging. . She said it herself that she wants to move on once and for all, even if that meant excusing Polanski, it must be extremely distressing still in 2011, decades after the crime, all the details of what happened to her as a kid, still dragged over and over again in the cover of newspapers. And then having all this high cultural players backing up someone that for all effects and purposes admitted in court to wrongdoing. The rape became the defining moment in her life, her name associate with it forever, it should not never happen like this.

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04-11-2011
  51
V.I.P.
 
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Quote:
It's that same power and influence that protects men in the fashion industry from being held accountable for their actions. Jean Luc Brunel, John Casablancas, Claude Haddad, Terry Richardson, Gerald Marie and I'm sure countless others.
I cannot understand how people look the other way. It is very sad. To be more enamoured with money and power, than to be empathetic towards young girls/women who are compromised and even raped by these men is just twisted.

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04-11-2011
  52
you set the scene
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes View Post
i do think Polanski is a terrible example of a system that "worked", I think the treatment of his victim is appalling and totally discouraging.
Very true. Justice is about much more than getting a guilty verdict or plea! What punishment did Polanski ever have for his crime? He just left the country and lived overseas enjoying his fortune, making movies and hobnobbing with famous people... if anything he is more like a beacon to other *******s that they can do whatever they want and escape all negative consequences.

Also, yes, crisis centers and law enforcement encourage rape victims to report what has happened to them, as do virtually all of us here I'm sure. But it's a not-so-fine line between encouraging them to report the crime (often for their OWN empowerment by the way, to put the whole thing to rest within their own lives), and stating it as if it's mandatory. It's against the law to rape someone, not to decide that you won't testify against your rapist or report the crime. Saying that a victim MUST report rape because others could be hurt in the future clearly implies that they are complicit in those future crimes. If that isn't blaming the victim, I don't know what is.

Oh, and one more thing. Even if a victim testifies and a rapist is put in jail, it is extremely likely that it will be for however many years rather than an entire life sentence (I'd be surprised if the average sentence is more than ten years). That person will be out on the street eventually and it is hardly rare for a rapist to leave prison and continue the practice. My point being: The victim can do everything 'right' and still a rapist can continue on to hurt more and more victims. Where should the blame go then?

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07-11-2011
  53
unspecified
 
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The point that Carré is making, is an issue that has been brought before with no solutions yet: the dark un-regularized side of modeling. Being raped in any level, at any age is terrible, and in this industry, underage models are taught to not make a big deal out of it, because it's normal within that context. It is shocking that this man even with evidence hasn't been jailed yet. Let's hope more women are encoureged to do like she bravely did.

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08-11-2011
  54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes View Post
True, and i do think Polanski is a terrible example of a system that "worked"
Unfortunately for you, I never brought up Polanski as an example of a system that "worked". Anyone with even the slightest bit of reading comprehension would be able to see that after I brought up the idea of the importance of reporting rape crimes (something most of you suddenly seem to agree with...hmmm) there was a barrage of posts explaining why women shouldn't report rape. One theme was that specific to Carre, the reason she was right in not reporting her rape was because her attacker was in a position of power and so she would never be believed. That was the only reason I thought it was interesting to bring up Polanski. He was a man in a position of power over his victim and yet his victim was still believed and he was still found guilty. The fact that he fled the country had nothing to do with the justice system. Did you really not get the point? Yikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cestmagique View Post
Very true. Justice is about much more than getting a guilty verdict or plea!
Again, astonishing that you didn't at all get the point about Polanski. Maybe you should read the thread again.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cestmagique View Post
Also, yes, crisis centers and law enforcement encourage rape victims to report what has happened to them, as do virtually all of us here I'm sure.
Uh, no you don't. See the posts after my first one that give all the reasons a woman shouldn't report a rape. As if all of us aren't aware of those reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cestmagique View Post
But it's a not-so-fine line between encouraging them to report the crime (often for their OWN empowerment by the way, to put the whole thing to rest within their own lives), and stating it as if it's mandatory. It's against the law to rape someone, not to decide that you won't testify against your rapist or report the crime. Saying that a victim MUST report rape because others could be hurt in the future clearly implies that they are complicit in those future crimes. If that isn't blaming the victim, I don't know what is.
As long as you're accusing me of blaming the victim, why don't you go ahead and blame the professionals as well. I'm sure your accusatory emails to them will be forthcoming shortly. Here's just a scant few examples of those who stated pretty much the same as I did.

rainn.org (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network)

Quote:
Should I Report My Attack to the Police?

We hope you will decide to report your attack to the police. While there's no way to change what happened to you, you can seek justice while helping to stop it from happening to someone else.

Reporting to the police is the key to preventing sexual assault: every time we lock up a rapist, we're preventing him or her from committing another attack. It's the most effective tool that exists to prevent future rapes. In the end, though, whether or not to report is your decision to make.
Aftersilence.org

Quote:
Survivors of rape may have a hard time deciding whether or not to report their sexual assault to the police. Rape prevention and counseling experts strongly advise victims to report the rape to the authorities so that their assailants can be brought to justice. While there is no way to undue the rape, reporting it to the police will help to stop the perpetrator from harming other victims in the future. Additionally, rape victims can feel a sense of closure when the rapist is brought to justice and convicted accordingly.
Newbeginningsnh.org

Quote:
What are some reasons for making a police report?

To regain your sense of personal power and control: Many victims say that after a sexual assault, they are left with a feeling of powerlessness. Often, survivors begin to feel better when they find ways to regain their sense of personal power and control. Making a police report is one way to do something about what happened to you. Taking action can give you a sense of empowerment.

To document the crime that was committed against you: By making a police report, you will be creating a formal, legal record of the crime that was committed against you. Even if you are unsure at the moment whether or not you want to participate in the prosecution of your assailant, the police report will be useful if you later decide that you want to do so.

To preserve evidence of the assault: If you make a police report within 72 hours after the assault, the police will assist you in getting a specialized medical examination. During the examination, a doctor or nurse will gather physical evidence and document the findings in a medical record. Like a police report, a medical record may provide valuable evidence if your case is brought to a court trial.

To protect others from being raped: Most rapists are repeat offenders. They commit a large number of crimes, and they hurt many people. Your report may help the police arrest and prosecute a sex offender, which in turn may help prevent others from being sexually assaulted.
Justicewomen.com

Quote:
Rape is a serious violent crime. Yet many rape victims have a very difficult time deciding whether or not to report the rape to police. In fact, in the United States less than one out of six rape victims report the rape to police. And very few of these victims report the rape right away.

This is tragic because the criminal justice system has more power to help rape victims than any other institution. The criminal justice system, and only the criminal justice system, has the power and authority to do a criminal investigation of your rape, and to arrest, convict, punish, and remove the rapist from society. The criminal justice system is the only system that can intervene with force when your safety is threatened. The criminal justice system is also the only system that can put the criminal investigation findings and testimony on the public record. That record of truth finding is essential for justice. And justice is essential to your healing and to the healing of the community. Justice is also essential to stopping future rapes.

As a rape victim you have a right to have these immense criminal justice system powers work for you. But many rape victims still despair of obtaining justice, and for good reason. It is true that police, prosecutors, and judges have a terrible record of dealing with the crime of rape.

The most common abuse of criminal justice officials against rape victims is that these officials frequently try to dump rape cases. It is well documented in many sources that widespread dumping of rape cases goes on today in law enforcement agencies around the country.

But there is hope. And here's why we think you should seriously consider reporting your rape to police. There are more and more criminal justice officials who treat your safety and sexual assault seriously. Training and investigative techniques on rape have greatly improved. And even if you run into trouble with one official or another, there are other officials who are willing to help. But most importantly, there are many, many things you and your support persons can do to get a positive and just response from police, prosecutors, and judges.

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08-11-2011
  55
you set the scene
 
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^Why anyone would bother talking to you at this point is beyond me; you're rude as hell.

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08-11-2011
  56
trendsetter
 
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And you're obsessed with what you said and somehow you don't want others to elaborate your points. Really annoying, no one said anything opposed to your opinion, really. Calm down.

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08-11-2011
  57
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I guess when the posts aren’t a response to what you wrote, and the comments aren’t directed at you, it’s easy to miss the nuance of what is being said. So, to re-cap…

Accusing me of blaming rape victims for their own rape and future rapes:

Quote:
Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer to believe it's the abuser's fault that such terrible things happen, rather than it being the victim's fault that it happened to her, or that she was to blame for it happening to someone else.
Again, accusing me of blaming the victim as opposed to the rapist:

Quote:
Instead of trying to shift any sort of blame to the woman that was raped for crimes she has didn't commit that may happy next, I think your energies would be put to much better use being angry at justice system women do not trust to report such horrific crimes.
Accused of being heartless:


Quote:
And in the case of Carre is even more glaring, she would not have a chance in hell against her rapist, he would simply crush her, i cannot understand how anyone has the heart to criticise her decision.

Even though this was my original post:


Quote:
I don't necessarily mean this about Carre because she was just 17 at the time and no doubt scared and confused, but, it's so important for women to report these crimes when they happen.
Called “cruel beyond belief” for suggesting part of a parent’s job is to keep their child safe, which would obviously include not letting her live alone with a man they clearly couldn’t have known that well:

Quote:
I think it's cruel beyond belief to suggest that the parents are the ones responsible for these things happening to their daughters and sons
Once again, accusing me of blaming the victim:

Quote:
Saying that a victim MUST report rape because others could be hurt in the future clearly implies that they are complicit in those future crimes. If that isn't blaming the victim, I don't know what is.
There’s more but I’ll stop there.

Even though many of you seem to think that my opinion, by its’ very nature, is blaming the victim for future crimes, I feel quite confident I’m not doing that especially since organizations like RAINN say, “Reporting to the police is the key to preventing sexual assault…It's the most effective tool that exists to prevent future rapes.”

That’s pretty much the gist of what I’ve been trying to say here.


Sorry that I got bent out of shape because I felt my words were consistently misunderstood. There are few things (if any) in this world that are as horrific as rape and no one wants to be made out as a heartless person who blames the victims, especially when that’s definitely not how I feel.

Let’s hope this is the end of it….

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09-11-2011
  58
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This is a sensitive topic, about which we are all passionate. I think all of us can agree that we don't want this to ever happen to anyone. Full stop.

Reporting the crime, writing / talking about it bravely afterwards, moving on, trying to heal: these are all good steps. Each victim will deal with issues and take steps as needed, and/or as she feels capable.

Thanks goodness Carre has spoken out, even if it is later.

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09-11-2011
  59
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I found this gang rape survivor AMA (Ask Me Anything) on reddit today and it breaks my heart to pieces.

Quote:
I went to the police 3 weeks later and was told I did not have a case, and that I shouldn't have had so much to drink.
Someone's reply:
Quote:
I feel your pain. I was raped as well by someone I knew, and I was actually charged by the police with the crime of public nudity, because I was raped in a schoolyard when I reported the rape. I never told my father because I know he would kill the boy who did it. I only told my mother because she was getting an attorney for the counter-claim against the city for charging me with a crime I "admitted to" while reporting that I was raped. Unfortunately, the city only dropped the charges but they never actually tried to charge my rapist with a crime.
The fact that there are people in our society so vile against a victim is extremely depressing, disheartening and shameful.

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