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29-11-2017
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^But I'm still super interested in what TheDudeOverTher has to say!

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04-12-2017
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Didn't know Avedon was that sassy (probably his gay side.) Calling Marella Agnelli an ostrich/giraffe when Vogue and VF praised her 'swan-necked elegance' at the time??

Quote:
Book claims Richard Avedon had ‘decade-long’ affair with Mike Nichols

By Ian Mohr
November 13, 2017 | 10:31pm

A new book on Richard Avedon claims that the iconic photographer carried on a “decade-long secret affair with director Mike Nichols,” we hear.

The two have only been reported as great friends and collaborators.

The tome “Avedon: Something Personal” — by Avdeon’s former business partner Norma Stevens and writer Steven M. L. Aronson, out Nov. 21 — is being described as “part-memoir, part-biography” that “exposes the twice-married Avedon’s hidden love life.”

The book is also billed as including reminiscences on Avedon by Nichols himself as well as Calvin Klein, Claude Picasso, Brooke Shields, David Remnick, Twyla Tharp, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Bruce Weber, Cindy Crawford, Donatella Versace, Jann Wenner and Isabella Rossellini.

We hear that the explosive book from Spiegel & Grau has been kept completely under wraps so far, but that copies will float around a private launch party hosted by Barbara Tober at the Museum of Arts and Design on Wednesday, “first come, first grabbed.”

A source adds that the book includes Avedon’s private thoughts on celebrity subjects and colleagues, including Anna Wintour (“a very frosty concoction”), model Lauren Hutton (“wackadoodle”), socialite Marella Agnelli (“looked like an ostrich, a giraffe”) and photographer Weber in his “goddamn bandanna.”

The book also describes how Jackie Kennedy sued Avedon in the mid-1980s for using a Jackie look-alike in a Dior ad, but that he later turned her down flat when she asked the photographer to use a couple of photos in a book.

Nichols was married to four women, including Diane Sawyer from 1988 till his 2014 death. Avedon died in 2004. He was outed as bisexual in another tome, “Focus: The Secret, Sexy, Sometimes Sordid World of Fashion Photographers,” last year.

The Richard Avedon Foundation didn’t get back to us. Nichols’ former rep did not comment.
Source: Pagesix.com

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04-12-2017
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Not surprised at all. Every single time I've ever heard Mike Nichols speak, I thought he was gay. His marriage to Diane Sawyer has always intrigued me.

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10-01-2018
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Interesting that Anthony Vaccarello chose to post a photo of Catherine Deneuve with a heart immediately following her comments. His muse Anja always seems very involved in women's rights so I was a little surprised.

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10-01-2018
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^He did that? Does that mean he supports that vile petition?

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10-01-2018
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^^
Maybe he support her freedom of speech...which i can respect in some aspects.

I'm very disturbed by that petition.
First, we had the Karl controversy and i a way, i defended him because he was asked by the TV host and he is totally untitled to his opinion but i don't know why Deneuve felt the need to do a petition...Like if it was needed. I find this ridiculous, out of touch and so tragic.

She defended Roman Polanski so this doesn't come as a surprise for french people. I bet her image outside of France has changed now...

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10-01-2018
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So first Carla Bruni boldly claims sexual harassment doesn't exist in the fashion industry at all, now Catherine cosigned a petition against the #MeToo movement?? Interesting that they're both from France....

I always used to think women from Catherine's generation, the ones who were of age when 2nd wave feminism took hold and happened to have benefited from it, would have a more intrinsic understanding of the MeToo movement

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10-01-2018
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Many people forget that France is a Mediterranean country after all. Misogyny is still validated in countries like Spain, Italy, Portugal and, of course, France.

Plus, France is seeing a resurgence in "dark-age" social politics. Remember that they tried to ban short skirts that were considered "too short" a few years ago. I have female friends that are thinking of moving out of the country due to this change in mentality. While Portugal and even Spain are seeing a turn to the enlightenment and inclusive politics, France is doing a fast U-turn into the past.

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10-01-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn98 View Post
So first Carla Bruni boldly claims sexual harassment doesn't exist in the fashion industry at all, now Catherine cosigned a petition against the #MeToo movement?? Interesting that they're both from France....

I always used to think women from Catherine's generation, the ones who were of age when 2nd wave feminism took hold and happened to have benefited from it, would have a more intrinsic understanding of the MeToo movement
I know both movement are related but can we really say that Metoo is similar to "Balance ton porc"? which translate to "Swing or hurl your pig".
The interesting factor is that the majority of the women who signed the petition is a pre-68 generation who really didn't took part in the feminist discussions after 68.

I believe that we are facing a clear conflict of generation, of class and all.

To be honest, since the terrorists attacks, France has faced a clear identity crisis.
The saddest about it is that Catherine Deneuve is a privileged older white woman who has lived for the majority of her life in a bubble that is the most affluent area of Paris.

The fact that for her, a man who choose to get closer to a woman in the subway in order to have in moment of sexual tension, is not that much of a big deal says a lot! I don't think she has ever been in a subway! it's unbelievable!

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10-01-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola701 View Post
I know both movement are related but can we really say that Metoo is similar to "Balance ton porc"? which translate to "Swing or hurl your pig".
The interesting factor is that the majority of the women who signed the petition is a pre-68 generation who really didn't took part in the feminist discussions after 68.

I believe that we are facing a clear conflict of generation, of class and all.

To be honest, since the terrorists attacks, France has faced a clear identity crisis.
The saddest about it is that Catherine Deneuve is a privileged older white woman who has lived for the majority of her life in a bubble that is the most affluent area of Paris.

The fact that for her, a man who choose to get closer to a woman in the subway in order to have in moment of sexual tension, is not that much of a big deal says a lot! I don't think she has ever been in a subway! it's unbelievable!
Exactly. Ask her to catch the line 2 past Barbes/La Chapelle once a day then see if she still thinks it isn't a big deal.

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10-01-2018
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Is there a link to this petition? I find this rather stunning. In the US we do have a significant portion of white women whom I consider enablers (i.e., voting against women's interests, for predators, etc.), but I haven't heard of any women here coming out against #MeToo, and frankly I just find it stunning that anyone would

Another issue in France is the anti-hijab laws. As if denying a girl education because her parents are requiring her to wear hijab (or she wishes to) is really going to help anything! Sometimes the ignorance just leaves me with my mouth hanging open (not a good look btw). There's such a huge variety of reasons why a woman may be wearing hijab ... I wish people were more informed about this.

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11-01-2018
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The sad truth is that Catherine Deneuve and all the other women who took part in the anti #MeToo movement are in a way victims of the patriarchy as well and they cannot see why women of today want to break free from the norm. Women like Deneuve have grown up rich, beautiful and are used to the attention of men - sort of like a Stockholm syndrome - and they are afraid of changing the status quo out of fear that their position in society might change too. For the record, I am absolutely not defending their stance, but I am trying hard to understand where it comes from and how we can talk about it without shaming or attacking these women who are seemingly disconnected from everyday reality.

Regarding Anthony Vaccarello supporting Deneuve, I guess he has the right to do so. It doesn't sit well with me though that as a gay man he agrees with her views (?), considering the similar setbacks that most of the LGBTQ community has to face almost everyday.

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Last edited by dodencebt; 11-01-2018 at 04:35 AM.
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11-01-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodencebt View Post
The sad truth is that Catherine Deneuve and all the other women who took part in the anti #MeToo movement are in a way victims of the patriarchy as well and they cannot see why women of today want to break free from the norm. Women like Deneuve have grown up rich, beautiful and are used to the attention of men - sort of like a Stockholm syndrome - and they are afraid of changing the status quo out of fear that their position in society might change too. For the record, I am absolutely not defending their stance, but I am trying hard to understand where it comes from and how we can talk about it without shaming or attacking these women who are seemingly disconnected from everyday reality.
I was going to post something similar.

I used to work with one of the most famous 'feminist intellectuals' of my country, she's a bit younger than Deneuve though. What I found most stunning about working with her is how she, even though she is very aware of power structure etc. (and, for the record, would certainly not have signed a petition as stupid as that one), always defended flirting, teasing, and using your (female) body to your advantage. Which is obviously not forbidden, but I was shocked by how she failed to see these behaviors within a bigger picture of patriarchy.

But the longer I thought about it, the more I think she did see it, but maybe in a way that is difficult to understand for a younger generation. For her generation, the only way to get to the top, fight for your rights, live an independent female life, was to play the game of patriarchy in the first place - to then undermine and subvert it. (For granted, most of them, including her, were privileged to begin with certainly white, never poor etc.)

I feel that is what many women did back then, and their anxiety regarding the #MeToo might not be that different from the anxiety of White Men, an irrational feeling of life achievements and comfortable habits being taken away from them.


Last edited by sore; 11-01-2018 at 07:31 AM.
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11-01-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodencebt View Post
The sad truth is that Catherine Deneuve and all the other women who took part in the anti #MeToo movement are in a way victims of the patriarchy as well and they cannot see why women of today want to break free from the norm. Women like Deneuve have grown up rich, beautiful and are used to the attention of men - sort of like a Stockholm syndrome - and they are afraid of changing the status quo out of fear that their position in society might change too. For the record, I am absolutely not defending their stance, but I am trying hard to understand where it comes from and how we can talk about it without shaming or attacking these women who are seemingly disconnected from everyday reality.

Regarding Anthony Vaccarello supporting Deneuve, I guess he has the right to do so. It doesn't sit well with me though that as a gay man he agrees with her views (?), considering the similar setbacks that most of the LGBTQ community has to face almost everyday.
I agree with you that it's similar to Stockholm syndrome. However, #MeToo isn't really about someone standing too close on the subway. Perhaps those finer points can be argued, but some of the #MeToo women have been raped, or come far too close for comfort. This is quite serious ... so I'm not sure that shaming isn't appropriate for women and men who want to say all of that is OK.

One wants to believe all of these ridiculous attitudes will simply die out, but that's really not the case--I think you have to fight them.

It's been scientifically proven that men routinely overestimate women's sexual interest in them, and frequently misinterpret what they observe as sexual signals, or magnify something very minor. I'm sure this has some evolutionary value, which is unlikely to be PC. I also think it's true that a man can make an innocent gesture or comment that makes a woman uncomfortable (not the usual scenario, but quite possible). I hope the conversation begins to include topics like this ...

Also, part of the subtext here may be loss of sexual currency with age. I strongly believe that everyone, most especially girls, needs to be raised to develop multiple facets. If you're trading on your looks alone, you're in for quite a bit of disappointment as time goes by ... and you might end up signing petitions that make you look completely clueless

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11-01-2018
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Didn't know Avedon was so catty. Thanks for posting this "old" dirt!

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