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17-01-2018
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#Resist
 
fashionista-ta's Avatar
 
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Sigh ... is this woman the Ann Coulter of France?

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23-01-2018
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Just saw this on Diet Prada's Instagram:


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23-01-2018
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^ Oh, gorl...

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23-01-2018
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Ugh. I mean...it's clearly a Kanye quote. And it wasn't even a post/interview, but a card to a friend that wasn't meant to become public. Also, it's been said here before, but I think Americans need to realize that not everybody's native language is English and that not everybody grew up in a society where race is such a huge issue.

I would personally not have used it and am all for sensitivity when it comes to language, but it's gotten to a point where I'm wondering if there aren't any real problems to be solved in these people's lives. This whole witch hunt mentality on social media really does bring out the worst in people. (Quite sure at least 50% of the people who are 'hurt' by this are in fact self-entitled white wannabe influencers.)

I don't want to defend her, it's obviously a dumb joke to make, but it's so dumb that it seems clear to me she didn't mean any harm at all. Somebody could have explained to her why it wasn't a good idea, in a friendly manner. But the self-entitlement of Instagram **** storms makes me so mad, not only because they don't help change our world, I think it's starting to even become counterproductive. It's replacing real action and real thought.

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23-01-2018
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Are you saying that people in other countries don't understand that that word is hateful? Genuinely curious. I just can't imagine that.

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23-01-2018
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Her response is one huge NOPE.
credit: ulyanasergeenko on instagram


“IDK about you guys but i like to use the n-word because i’m so cool, just like Kanye XD!! And sorry... only to those I offended. Hehe I don’t see color”


Last edited by Armani; 23-01-2018 at 11:37 AM.
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23-01-2018
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her apology is laughable

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23-01-2018
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^ I hadn't seen her response. She really doesn't sound like the quickest bunny in the forest. (Also, what does her half Armenian daughter have to do with it?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapenerd View Post
Are you saying that people in other countries don't understand that that word is hateful? Genuinely curious. I just can't imagine that.
I'm not from a former UdSSR country, so I can't speak for her obviously.
And just as a disclaimer, I think with a certain amount of mastery of the English language and general education, everybody should be able to understand it's a derogatory word.

What I'm saying is that many European countries, especially Eastern and Middle European countries, historically don't have a huge amount of black population. In fact, it is close to zero. I just googled the percentage of Blacks in Poland (just as a random example for an Eastern European country with historically little immigration).
This is from Wikipedia:

Quote:
There are also nationality groups of Americans (in 2002: 1,541 of whom 992 had Polish citizenship), Britons, Turks (232, including 74 Polish citizens), Hungarians (579, including 228 Polish citizens), French (2002: 1,633 including 1,068 Polish citizens), Italians (1,367 including 835 Polish citizens), Serbs, Croats, Bulgarians (1,112, including 404 Polish citizens), Romanians, Georgians, Africans, Palestinians (229 including 146 Polish citizens), other Arabs, Kurds, Bengali, Scandinavians, Chechens and Vietnamese, who constitute small ethnic communities within major cities such as Warsaw, Kraków, and Gdańsk. And various ethnic groups from the whole world like Zulus (92, including 52 Polish citizens), Kurds (91 including 62 Polish citizens), African-Americans (80, including 37 Polish citizens), Flemings (23, including 10 Polish citizens) etc.
The numbers refer to a census in 2002, they have likely gone up a bit, but still. We're talking about the absolute number of people. 80 African-Americans, 92 Zulus...
Here's another number for 2011:

Quote:
At the 2011 census, 1,44% of the 39 million inhabitants of Poland declared to be descendents of another single ancestry than Polish.That number includes 418,000 who declared to be Silesians as a national-ethnic identification (362,000 as single ethnicity and 391,000 a second ethnicity) and 17,000 Kashubians (16,000 as single ethnicity).
Even in countries with a higher population of POC like Germany, there are still extremely few in comparison to the US. Of course that doesn't give anybody the right to complete ignorance. But the whole discourse, the impact of the Black Lives Matter movement, also the problematic issues of racial profiling etc., are not NEARLY as present as in the US.

In Germany, there's a sweet that has long been called Negerkuss ("******'s kiss"). The pc word today is Schokokuss ("chocolate kiss"), for obvious reasons. Still there are many people, especially older ones and those on the conservative side of the political spectrum, who don't understand what's wrong with Negerkuss, and they will just continue to use it no matter what. And for some of them (not all, of course), I really believe they genuinely don't understand it.

The word itself is just as bad as in English, and that's what they are told. But it doesn't really come through to them, partly, I believe, because the cultural importance of the word is way different. Until fairly recently, Germany wasn't a country with lots of immigration from African countries. And similar to Poland today, you would have trouble finding a POC on the street. (By the way, even today growing up black in a rural German area will likely mean you're the only POC in your whole school.) What people connect(ed) with the word is a colonial past they don't have much understanding of, and also don't really care about. That's a HUGE difference to the situation in the US.

Once again, that doesn't mean all Middle and Eastern European people should be allowed to walk around yelling the n word. But I think it's important to understand why many of them use the word more naively than an American person probably would.

We had this whole discussion only a few weeks ago:
http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f63...293643-25.html
(the argument I was referring to starts from #374)


Last edited by sore; 23-01-2018 at 12:21 PM.
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23-01-2018
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poor woman... I actually think her response is genuine and it's for a global audience, not for US people only with "US US US" in mind. I live in LA.. it's always been interesting how determined people are to subject and judge other countries based on internal issues and they get easily outraged upon learning it's actually very different and some cultures are just sensitive about different things or simply are not composed of the same elements, let alone same sequence of events, what's admirable here is embarrassing elsewhere, same for "offensive" "insensitive". Not long ago someone at work was so upset talking about the lack of racial census in, no kidding I think it was Uruguay, like 'WHERE is their black population?! they NEVER talk about their black people', I didn't even know where to start.. If you live in the US, or in any other country for that matter, it's vital to be responsible, respectful and informing yourself and learning how to stfu about sensitive issues and their history and issues derived from it, but someone overseas.. with Kazakh formation of all places (been there, they couldn't be culturally and geographically further away from the US- when I grabbed a nerve and asked someone if he by any chance spoke English, this guy (in his 20s) laughed and sang some "oh yeah baaaby!..... nyet ruski" ).. you just have to understand they don't really have an agenda or malice or are on a mission to disrupt all the progress the US has made to overcome racial tension... when you live outside the US, you are BOMBARDED with American pop culture and you pick up a lot of things based on whatever sounds trendiest or fun to pronounce and.. who knows what they mean in the US!, it's so strong that most young people really believe they understand American culture based on these exports.. it's always a shock to come and realise you had no idea and that people don't even use some words on a daily basis.. or that things that were exported as "American humor" aren't actually that funny or even important and people laugh about things that you might just never get because you lack cultural foundation...

I get the American outrage when they see others using very American concepts/words so freely but that's the downside of aggressive international marketing.. you'll have people mumbling stuff just because.. it reached there.

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23-01-2018
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So Miraslava is the one who posted it? With friends like her, do you need enemies? I know it's no laughing matter but I find this bit hilarious:

'I woke up this morning with my phone full of insulting messages....'you deserve the worst in your life' Can only imagine how confused she was if it's true.

Ulyana's just making it worse with the excuses. Just apologise, no need to mention that she listens to Kanye West.

Btw, Sore, I find it interesting that there are only two distinct groups of black people in Poland. African Americans and Zulu's. I'm fairly well travelled across Africa and actually paid attention in class. If my memory serves me correctly, the Zulu people are concentrated within the Southern African region. So what the Poles (or Wiki) are effectively saying is that they have zero Nigerians, Kenyans, Ghanaians, Somali, or Jamaicans? Very interesting.

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23-01-2018
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Correction, I see they do list 'Africans' in the first paragraph, just not the amount or percentage.

I just wish the word can be retired so that nobody use it. We'll always go around circles with this debate.

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23-01-2018
  747
fashion icon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapenerd View Post
Are you saying that people in other countries don't understand that that word is hateful? Genuinely curious. I just can't imagine that.
As Mulletproof said " [...] when you live outside the US, you are BOMBARDED with American pop culture and you pick up a lot of things based on whatever sounds trendiest or fun to pronounce and.. who knows what they mean in the US!".

This is for me the real problem. For example, in France the N word is both a racist word but also a word used to describe a ghostwriter.

You'll never see an french artist name one of his song with "our N" word. Most of the time they prefer to use the spanish translation of the word in their lyrics. Because that word is hateful.

I blame those two stupid women as much as i blame Kanye & Jay-Z for making that song, singing it around the world without thinking deeper than that. That word mean something hurtful in any language but to actually suggest it as something cool is bad.

They came to Paris singing that a thousand time in front of a (in majority) white crowd without no second thought.


I must say, her apology is worst than the little note but it sounds genuine. Russian doesn't have the best reputation so, it will be hard to recover from that.

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23-01-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn98 View Post
I just wish the word can be retired so that nobody use it. We'll always go around circles with this debate.
this

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23-01-2018
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Armani's Avatar
 
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Miroslava’s apology about the Ulyana story was MUCH better worded, but very PR, which was expected. In other news, Bryanboy added subtitles to a transphobic rant she did targeting him, as well as Andreja Pejic:


Yuck. Yuck yuck YUCK.


Last edited by Armani; 23-01-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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23-01-2018
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They are both vile.
The fact that she’ll wear designs by these “weird” people yet voices her disdain for them is appalling.

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