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28-02-2018
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Originally Posted by ThatDudeOverTher View Post
Agree with you about the list and other publishers at least doing their research. The intention behind this is good, but it's not at all reliable. Basically anyone can send a DM with a name and some made up story and the name will end up on the list. Create a different account and submit the same name multiple times and they will add an asterik next to the name, indicating multiple allegations. I think the account holder will find themselves in some serious legal hot water.

Regarding Tom Ford, well, there have been stories floating around for some time. Not necessarily abusive, but definitely a very horny man haha.
The amount of juicy bits you know! Maybe it's time for me to slide into your DMs.....

I sincerely hope the blogger have screenshots of all his/her correspondence on hand, because this list will unleash all sorts of madness. I can see many newspapers assigning some of these names to their journalists for investigation.

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01-03-2018
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The thing about these accusations is that it's only about naming people. With naming people, they also have to mention which kind of behaviour they are pointing out.

If Jeremy Scott and Tom Ford are mentionned, it's a big deal but their behavior needs to be adressed. Was just an uncomfortable situation? A comment? Or acts à la Bruce Weber and Testino.

I don't like this kind of list because everything and everybody are mixed in the whole thing without really knowing what's the deal.

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01-03-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola701 View Post
The thing about these accusations is that it's only about naming people. With naming people, they also have to mention which kind of behaviour they are pointing out.

If Jeremy Scott and Tom Ford are mentionned, it's a big deal but their behavior needs to be adressed. Was just an uncomfortable situation? A comment? Or acts à la Bruce Weber and Testino.

I don't like this kind of list because everything and everybody are mixed in the whole thing without really knowing what's the deal.
in the comment section there are stories of the people accused.
I wish it was easier to access though

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01-03-2018
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Originally Posted by domenica View Post
That’s incredible news!! Thanks for posting. Now we just need a list for workplace abuse by stylists and editors etc. Assistants shouldn’t be spared either because of the way some treat interns. Having gone through that kind of thing themselves, you’d think they’d have some compassion. I get that they’re stressed, but so is everyone, including the subordinates they yell at.
Someone should publish stories from the other angles of the business, so the whole structure and its patterns become visible. There's so much more. You would logically expect well-meaning adult people that work on a manager-like level, to protect the well-being of the people they surround themselves with. And yet, most either don't realize the power they hold, or they seek catharsis by perpetuating the abuse that happened to them before. It's so childish. It's time for adults to be held accountable for this vile behavior.

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01-03-2018
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Yeah, the intention of the list is obviously good but the whole thing ended up looking too gossip blog-y. It would be better if the owner would reach out to a journalist and news publication and put forward these allegations. Not only the victims would feel more protected and empowered to open up to a serious journalist, but the consequences to the abusers would come fast and real.

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02-03-2018
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^^
Exactly! Having just a list like that feels very gossip!
And i would also love to have a real definition of sexual misconduct because the Karl Templer story really confused me.
I didn't see it as Sexual Misconduct and though that he received an unfair judgement compare to what he did.

What i hate is that you have everything in the mix when we are chasing predators. I can totally understand the feeling of someone being uncomfortable about a situation on a set but putting a story like that in a middle of men who are recognized as sexual predators and abuzers is unfair!

When i see the repercussions of those stories, i don't know. Yes, Weber and Demarchelier and Testino should not work anymore because they took advantage of their position on those men and women. Is that the same with Templer? No, i don't think he took advantage of someone.

And if someone put names like Tom Ford and Jeremy Scott in something as deep as that, i only hope that the story really involved sexual misconduct or predatory behavior because now, we are not talking about photographers or stylist. We are talking about people who are very powerful and who risks to lose big.

I don't expect my position to be popular but i really wanted to express that because i feel like we are reaching a new out of control point now.

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02-03-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola701 View Post
Is that the same with Templer? No, i don't think he took advantage of someone.
Could be wrong, but the way I read translated the Templer accusations was more a disregard for the model's body/choice. Someone else posted this already, I think. His actions may not have been sexually motivated, but was clearly appalling to the model regardless. Going by her description, I can understand where she was coming from. This sort of behaviour cannot be common.

Agree with everything else you've posted.

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02-03-2018
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^^
It could have been mentionnés but the problem is that today, people are not interested in looking deep into articles. The truth is that while Templer story is different from everything we have talked all along, his name is affiliated to some predators and people may think about him as such a such while in fact it’s not.
Demarchelier, Testino and Weber stories are really creepy backdoor stories.

I think/hope that Ford and Scott are clever enough to not being alone in a place with a model.

And what I don’t want is that people’s personalities don’t play against them. In Ford’s case... He is known for selling sex, for laughing about it and i’ve Always heard stories about him being very respectful of everybody on set. That’s why his name comes as a surprise for me. And that’s why if the story is similar to Templer’s one, i will be very disappointed as I don’t think it will help the cause.

We have to get rid of the predators/abusers and then fix some things on how people are working. Modeling is a job when no matter what people are experiencing an «*invasion*» in their personal space. We have to make sure that those young people are aware of what they are getting into but also comfortable in their body and mind before doing things.

Those are still teenagers that are growing up, experiencing puberty and at the same time are out in this world in the most unpersonal way. They are judged on their body and are at the same time being celebrated because of that (being a model is not negative in anyone’s eye) and sometimes have to experience the low point of that (photoshop alter their body that is already consider perfect and they are being criticized for being too skinny).

We have to get to those discussions gradually.

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02-03-2018
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Originally Posted by Lola701 View Post
We have to get rid of the predators/abusers and then fix some things on how people are working. Modeling is a job when no matter what people are experiencing an «*invasion*» in their personal space. We have to make sure that those young people are aware of what they are getting into but also comfortable in their body and mind before doing things.

Those are still teenagers that are growing up, experiencing puberty and at the same time are out in this world in the most unpersonal way. They are judged on their body and are at the same time being celebrated because of that (being a model is not negative in anyone’s eye) and sometimes have to experience the low point of that (photoshop alter their body that is already consider perfect and they are being criticized for being too skinny).

We have to get to those discussions gradually.
Couldnt agree with you more!!
I think a lot of models jump into the industry boots first. This is actually regardless of age imo, so it's really the really up to the agents to give them a full scope of what's expected of them.

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02-03-2018
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In my opinion, the discussion about Templer fits into a movement that was already going on before #MeToo started. The notion of respectful treatment of ones body and morals is at the core of the debate because it raises questions like 'how come so many lines are crossed with such ease? and what needs to be done to stop models from being so vulnerable?'. The issue runs very deep and it's vital to dissect and analyze the power plays in the business that allow for such behavior, so practical improvements can be implemented to protect people. Truth is, stylists hold a lot of power and it's the models job to 'go with the flow'. You sign away all of your creative rights the moment you set foot on a shoot and will simply do as told, like a doll. Stylists like Templer refer to clothes and dresses as 'she' and 'them', while completely ignoring the person wearing them as if she wasn't there. To hear people talking about you that you're fat while you're in the room, to be told you need to take your top off, or have your body roughly tucked at is like saying to a person over and over 'you are not important', and people start to believe that. It messes with your mind, understandably.

Edie Campbell wrote a very eloquent piece on it:

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...buse-of-models

“We have a problem: we operate within a culture that is too accepting of abuse, in all of its manifestations. This can be the ritual humiliation of models, belittling of assistants, power plays and screaming fits. We have come to see this as simply a part of the job.”

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02-03-2018
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^^
I don't disagree but this is a question that we should handle in the industry because it's also a question that challenge the whole concept of fashion in a deeper way.
It also question the activity of modelling. What are models? Who are they? What are they doing? What they have been hired for? At the end of the day, the fashion industry is about the clothes, not the woman, not the individual. What happen in the boutiques is another story because the individual is taking under consideration.

But, the base of the industry is already twisted. Those women are choosen to be a standard. They represents a standard while in the society, they are a minority. And for the majority of them, being a model is also a way to stand-up or to stand out. We hear stories of girls being mocked or bullied because of their physique before being models.

The issue here is that people are taking advantage of other people and of situations to satisfy their pleasure. This is the issue and this is what we are fighting for at the moment. I don't want the movement to be confused because we are mixing everything at the same time.

I'm not saying that some stylists behavior or assistants or anyone else childish behavior are good. The fashion industry is like high school. I mean, sometimes here some of the comments about some models or designers are quite weird. I mean people talking about Jacquemus teeth in the thread of his collection has nothing relevant to do with what he is known for....

And i'm sure reading those comments about your teeth is as unpleasant as hearing people talking about you in a room.

Everybody can be a bully without even knowing it. The fashion industry is not an industry where people speaks, they often whisper. And everybody is playing the game.

We have to give the tools to people to stand-up for themselves in order of having things being done differently. And it doesn't necessarly have to be done with violence (and i'm still refering to the Templer thing).

For those who are predators (because ultimately, it's a personal choice and not necessarly the environment that cause that), a violent reaction is needed and expected. Even more when your hear that those stories happened 3 or 2 years ago.

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02-03-2018
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The list gets bigger and bigger every day, with more and more names that have asterisks next to them. Its really sad to see so many people abuse their power, but amazing to see it all finally come to light.

The only problem I have with the list was acknowledged by Marc10 above - with just the names listed, you dont know the stories behind them, so putting certain names alongside Terry Richardson and Mario Testino with no further context on their personal blog with a Google spreadsheet for comments seems gossipy.

Funny how so many people on the list (with asterisks) are (trying to be) all for *empowerment!* *equality!* *social justice!* If youre abusing your higher power on those who have lesser than you, thats not equality in the slightest bit.


Last edited by Armani; 02-03-2018 at 01:15 PM.
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02-03-2018
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there was already some drama as a photographer was put on his list by his ex girlfriend (pretty big model) as revenge. His name was removed

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02-03-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TREVOFASHIONISTO View Post
there was already some drama as a photographer was put on his list by his ex girlfriend (pretty big model) as revenge. His name was removed
See! Sorry to say this, but I prefer newspapers to handle exposes such as these. The blogger, though meaning well, didn't appear to have that journalistic instinct to question and investigate a claim once it's made.

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02-03-2018
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Originally Posted by TREVOFASHIONISTO View Post
there was already some drama as a photographer was put on his list by his ex girlfriend (pretty big model) as revenge. His name was removed
PM, please.

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