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03-02-2014
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The only thing "illuminating" about the Daily Beast article is how poorly critical reasoned the article is. I've never seen such a passive-aggressive and biased article, and am bothered that readers can't identify the obvious manipulation and lack of sound reasoning in it.

For one, the author is a HUGE Woody Allen fan (just check out his twitter bio), so he's definitely supporting one camp over the other. Secondly, he spends a huge chunk of his article slut-shaming Mia Farrow, which really doesn't negate how creepy and wrong Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi is, nor does it have any relevance to Dylan Farrow's claim. Thirdly, the guy is cherry-picking which facts from his "copious research" to communicate to readers.

He also posted a very callous response to Dylan Farrow's letter, which was extremely condescending.

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Last edited by eternitygoddess; 03-02-2014 at 08:51 AM.
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03-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose n Toast View Post
I hope the family is able to work through the situation peacefully and quietly.

Whilst I do respect Dylan's bravery in posting the article, (and I by no means wish to come across as on Woody's side - I'd like to think I'm more sympathetic towards Dylan) I'm not sure if asking Cate, Alec, Emma and co. their opinion is the best way to go about it. It's a family matter, there is no need to involve more people than necessary.

The issue does open up the dilemma of how to differentiate a person's work from the personal affairs.
First, thanks to HeatherAnne for moving the personal discussion from the work thread over here, and thanks to chickadee for starting the thread.

Rose n Toast, I think you say that very well. I just feel like this should be dealt with in the courts. I don't know if charges can be re-opened, though.

I read a piece this morning on separating art and artist; will post the link here for those who want to read it. The woman who wrote is Peggy Drexler, Ph.D., a research psychologist, Assistant Professor of Psychology at Weill Medical College, Cornell University

http://ideas.time.com/2014/02/02/how...e-woody-allen/

chickadee, perhaps this is a question for Allen's film thread, but I am curious as to how or why you think Blue Jasmine follows Woody and Mia's relationship closely? I can certainly see how some of his other films mirror aspects of his life, but I didn't really see it in this, so am truly interested in why you thought that.

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03-02-2014
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eternitygoddess, since I was the one who used the word "illuminating" I assume you are addressing me. I do understand the bias inherent in the author's position; he himself points it out. I thought he was quite fair-minded at times, and quite biased at other times in the article. That's why I posted the Criticwire piece too, because it looks at things from a different perspective.. It's worth pointing out that the person whom pixie cited (with the NYT's blog) is also a family friend of the Farrows. So it cuts both ways in that often people have a stake in this one way or another. The entertainment/critical industry is a tangled web. I guess what I found illuminating were all the things I actually didn't know that I found out in the DB article. That's why I used that word. I was under some misconceptions and the article includes a lot of details. I am able to read critically enough that I could take what I wanted from it. I hope this clarifies. I think you make some valid points about the author.

BTW, I didn't know he posted a response to Dylan's letter. Could you post or PM the link? Thanks..

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Last edited by Not Plain Jane; 03-02-2014 at 09:29 AM.
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03-02-2014
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^This was Robert Weide's tweet in response to Dylan's article:
Quote:
Bob Weide ‏@BobWeide Feb 1
Nothing new that wasn't covered in 2 prev. VF articles & nothing that contradicts anything in my @DailyBeast piece. http://tinyurl.com/pfvmoup
I disagree with the apples-to-apples comparison between Nicholas Kristof and Robert Weide. Nicholas Kristof is a Farrow family friend, but the piece he posted was written by Dylan Farrow herself, and so he was only serving as a medium through which the letter was distributed to the public.

Robert Weide on the other hand, wrote the Daily Beast piece and thus, it is a second hand account and subject to writer's bias, extreme bias in this case. As one comment of the piece pointed out, Weide utilizes a rhetorical device throughout his piece where he makes leading statements and questions and then backtracks later on. This is equivalent of those lawyers who make an inappropriate remark in the courtroom on purpose and withdraws it, but the damage is done. He also tries to come off as being an "admirer" of Mia Farrow, and then immediately slut-shames her by mentioning her past marriages.

Additionally, I have a big problem with the amount of facts cherry-picking the author did. I've come across the Allen-Farrow case before, so I have some vague knowledge of evidence on both sides, and was suspicious when I noticed that Weide didn't mention certain things:

- A judge RULED that Allen's conduct with Dylan was "grossly inappropriate" and denied him visitation rights.
- The Yale doctors who concluded Dylan wasn't sexually abused were on Allen's payroll (they also cherry picked which witnesses to talk to)
- Reliability of the report was questioned by the judge

I'll stop listing the rest of the facts that Weide ignored to mention, and just link the articles:
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...a-ronan-farrow
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/a...1/farrow199211

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Last edited by eternitygoddess; 03-02-2014 at 10:15 AM.
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03-02-2014
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Thanks, yes I have read the older and newer VF articles.

Kristof also wrote a piece on the whole issue, and it is very moving. (But yes, his blog was also the place where Dylan posted her letter.)

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^ Oops I guess it's too late for me to edit that so I have to post again.

Update: apparently it is too late for Dylan to renew charges - the statute of limitations ran out a while ago.

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Last edited by Not Plain Jane; 03-02-2014 at 10:33 AM.
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03-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Plain Jane View Post
I read a piece this morning on separating art and artist; will post the link here for those who want to read it. The woman who wrote is Peggy Drexler, Ph.D., a research psychologist, Assistant Professor of Psychology at Weill Medical College, Cornell University

http://ideas.time.com/2014/02/02/how...e-woody-allen/
Thanks, that was an interesting read. One of the film blogs I follow, Rope of Silicon, also posted an article on separating art from the artist. It highlights both Woody's recent allegations and PSH death. The comments are quite good also:

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/separating-art-artist/

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03-02-2014
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The is a very tenuous comparison and one that the author of the piece acknowledges. PSH suffered from a disease and he had no agency there. He was a victim and it ended in tragedy but his disease and death won't be, and should not be, what defines him or his art. Same with Paul Walker and Tony Scott and Cory Monteith. These people were victims either to a faulty car or demons in their life. They had no control in the situation they found themselves in.

Woody Allen had agency in his situation and he had power. That is the fundamental and important difference.

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03-02-2014
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Looks like an interesting link Rose n Toast - am still at work but will read it later. I did quickly scroll to the comments and I noticed the very first one brings up Michael Jackson - he's a perfect example of this conundrum! How many people love and appreciate his music but are very leery of the lifestyle he seemed to lead personally. He was accused of sexual abuse *numerous* times and settled out of court with huge amounts of money, and yet people still listen to and praise his music all the time. It's a relevant example.

It sounds like pixie makes a smart distinction with PSH, but I need to read the article first, obviously, before I can comment further.

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Rose n Toast, interesting article; it does seem to separate PHS' situation from Allen's, at least superficially, but it uses both as differing examples that unite a broader issues. Art vs Artist.

By the way, I am totally impressed by how civilized the comments are following the article. Indeed, I'm bookmarking this blog for future reference on film-related info. I don't really have a good film blog a.t.m. (read the usual Indiewire, Sundance, Criticwire, etc.) so thanks again for the discovery...

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03-02-2014
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I always had the feeling that he is not alright.

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04-02-2014
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One thing that upsets me about this whole thing is that there are so many people who are trying to get rid of Dylan's voice as a victim, they are trying to get rid of her agency to speak out about it. So many people who experience sexual abuse are never able to speak out so for one to do so, it is a huge, huge thing. Personally, I think Dylan is telling the truth, why go through the trouble of telling a lie and then having to stick with it for years and years??? It's not worth it. But also, other evidence in Woody's life seems to indicate that he's a bit obscene. I feel so much for Dylan and her family, to have to experience such a thing, it is just horrific. And then on top of this, to have the media shame and blame you in such a way, what an awful thing.

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04-02-2014
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Interesting piece on following due process and not silencing the victim:

http://theconversation.com/woody-all...al-abuse-22719

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04-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoninahAliza View Post
One thing that upsets me about this whole thing is that there are so many people who are trying to get rid of Dylan's voice as a victim, they are trying to get rid of her agency to speak out about it. So many people who experience sexual abuse are never able to speak out so for one to do so, it is a huge, huge thing. Personally, I think Dylan is telling the truth, why go through the trouble of telling a lie and then having to stick with it for years and years??? It's not worth it. But also, other evidence in Woody's life seems to indicate that he's a bit obscene. I feel so much for Dylan and her family, to have to experience such a thing, it is just horrific. And then on top of this, to have the media shame and blame you in such a way, what an awful thing.
Adding to that, it's unfortunate PSH's death was so untimely, as there would have been more spotlight on Dylan's letter. And more potential chance for support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Plain Jane View Post
By the way, I am totally impressed by how civilized the comments are following the article. Indeed, I'm bookmarking this blog for future reference on film-related info. I don't really have a good film blog a.t.m. (read the usual Indiewire, Sundance, Criticwire, etc.) so thanks again for the discovery...
No worries - Rope Of Silicon does have a pretty civil comment base! Bit off topic, other than the ones you mentioned, I also follow The Film Experience and And So It Begins... religiously. The latter looks at more past films/actors, whilst TFE has a bit of everything.

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04-02-2014
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The response has been disappointing, albeit expected. The last straw for the Farrow side obviously occurred with the Golden Globes' Woody Allen tribute. It can't merely be a family matter, as long as this issue involves society's commendation of abusers.

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