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06-02-2014
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This is an article that rebutes many of the claims the Daily Beast article made about the legalities if the case and it's written by a child abuse investigator. It's an eye opener for sure.

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/02/a-...n-farrow-case/

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06-02-2014
  62
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Here's a real gem from his interview with People Magazine in 1976

Quote:
He goes on: "I'm open-minded about sex. I'm not above reproach; if anything, I'm below reproach. I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."
And much more here: http://defamer.gawker.com/the-intern...ing-1515815185

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06-02-2014
  63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey View Post
I didn't mean with Mia, I meant with Soon Yi. I've only see two daughters with Soon Yi.


Last edited by scorzalite; 06-02-2014 at 01:07 PM. Reason: spellings
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06-02-2014
  64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickadee View Post
I want to say this respectfully because I don't want to come off as nasty or unkind to anyone. Nor do I want to stop people from sharing their opinions. But this is not the first time that I've heard people express their distaste for this being aired in "public." I would argue that that's the whole point of Dylan's letter. She wanted this to be public. She was sick of being silenced and shamed.

I think it's worth it to point out that this is not brand new information, by the way. Dylan has been silenced at least twice before now. I know a lot of you don't believe her and you have your reasons, but let's pretend for a moment that she isn't a vindictive little liar hellbent on destroying poor Woody Allen's career and reputation. When she first spoke up as a child, only a few family members and professionals believed her. But the overwhelming opinion was that she was lying or that her mother put it in her head so she was dismissed. She was ignored again as recently as last November when Mia and her kids gave an interview to Vanity Fair. Mia and Dylan both detail the abuse and its aftermath for almost half the article, only to be overshadowed by a brief, throwaway line about how Ronan Farrow might biologically be Frank Sinatra’s son. It’s only now that people seem to be paying attention to these allegations and yet still desperately seek to silence her.

So, this is just my own individual opinion--and I understand that many feel this is a "private" family matter: The family has been dealing with this privately for years. And in those years, Woody Allen has been lauded as a gem of the film industry, patted on the back, worshipped, adored. People wanted to enjoy his films so this was swept under the rug. Me, personally, I don't want it to go away. Ever. Because it is far more common for women (and men) to be assaulted than it is for someone to be falsely accused of assaulting someone. This is something that desperately, urgently needs to stop, and the only way we can do that, is if we talk about it and change our culture, which would rather silence its victims than protect them. And if we stop thinking about all of the potentially selfish reasons Dylan might be doing this, why isn't it just as possible that she maybe wanted to give a voice to children, adults, who have been assaulted and have not yet found the courage to speak up?
Agreed.

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06-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickadee View Post
Absolutely. The worst thing is that the presumption of innocence argument is reserved almost exclusively for accused rapists. Has anyone noticed this? Rarely do people ride on their high horse with "innocent til proven guilty" unless it's a rape case, which is actually the worst time for it. But you didn't hear very many--if any--go 'innocent til proven guilty' with Oscar Pistorius, or O. J. Simpson. No one is cautious about passing judgment then.

In this case, the victim called out her abuser in her own words. She didn't use a lawyer or any other kind of third party; she detailed the abuse herself. So you may as well go up to Dylan and call her a liar straight to her face. There's no reasonable way even to blame Mia at this point as Dylan is a grown adult, almost thirty. Her story has not changed in twenty years. There's no reason to believe she's not telling the truth, and yet with all the creepy facts we know about Allen, people still find a way to discredit her. SMH.
You don't find it odd that her brother Moses, who in 1992 at the age of 15 was fully supportive of Mia/Dylan's claims and publicly censured Woody, has completely changed his tune? I don't pretend that that is unshakeable evidence of Woody's innocence, but I don't see how one can continue behaving as if this isn't a remarkably messy case.

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06-02-2014
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Jon Lovett has tweeted some of the testimony from the original case. For example:

"Mr. Allen's response to Dylan's claim of sexual abuse was an attack upon Ms. Farrow, whose parenting ability and emotional stability he impugned without the support of any significant credible evidence. His trial strategy has been to separate his children from their brothers and sisters; to turn the children against their mother; to divide adopted children from biological chilldren; to incite the family against their household help; and to set household employees against each other. His self absorption, his lack of judgement and his commitment to the continuation of divisive assault, thereby impeding the healing of the injuries that he has already caused, warrant a careful monitoring of his future contact with the children."

So said the judge, who also apparently saw no evidence of coaching.

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06-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decalion View Post
You don't find it odd that her brother Moses, who in 1992 at the age of 15 was fully supportive of Mia/Dylan's claims and publicly censured Woody, has completely changed his tune? I don't pretend that that is unshakeable evidence of Woody's innocence, but I don't see how one can continue behaving as if this isn't a remarkably messy case.
Family dynamics are extremely complex and go through several stages. I find this idea that you can infer someone's guilt or innocence of someone by the behaviour of the family towards the accused totally absurd. Even when the guilt is confirmed by a court decision and the accused admits that guilt, members of the same family will act in totally different ways. Their reaction is totally dependant on the personal relationship they have with the accused, and is subject to change. Sometimes there is even strong resentment in the family towards the victim, regardless of an admission of guilt.

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06-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes View Post
Family dynamics are extremely complex and go through several stages. I find this idea that you can infer someone's guilt or innocence of someone by the behaviour of the family towards the accused totally absurd. Even when the guilt is confirmed by a court decision and the accused admits that guilt, members of the same family will act in totally different ways. Their reaction is totally dependant on the personal relationship they have with the accused, and is subject to change. Sometimes there is even strong resentment in the family towards the victim, regardless of an admission of guilt.
Yes, of course. All I'm saying is, it's a significant enough complication (to me) to make choosing a side to convict impossible at this stage. Dylan/Mia/Ronan need to offer an explanation of why Moses is contradicting them (i.e. Is he upset about something else like a disintegration of his relationship with the other Farrows? Is he fascinated by Woody's fame and desirous of and willing to do anything to get in his good graces?). They need to say something with more substance than "Betrayal! He's dead to me!" if I'm going to cross the line from agnosticism about this case into a condemnation of Woody. Likewise, Moses should elaborate on the brainwashing he's alleged. (i.e. Does he have specific recollections of Mia coaching him or the other children? More anecdotes?)

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06-02-2014
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Honestly, I think Jon Lovett has done must of the work for us. He tweeted about the case earlier today, and provided court transcripts. A judge (for those saying, "well he was never convicted in a court of law") saw right through Woody and his antics. And anybody who, after reading this, still questions Dylan and/or decides to put more stock in the words of all these "character witnesses" for Allen, doesn't want to know the truth. I don't know what more "evidence" you need short of a time machine to Connecticut 1992:

http://twitchy.com/2014/02/06/former...station-claim/

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06-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Plain Jane View Post
^ I have read those; thanks for posting Pixie. Remember that what someone creates, they put out into the world. I have written stories that have absolutely nothing to do with me. So if you like someone's art, it doesn't mean you support them in their personal actions. I love Picasso too, and he was horrible to the women in his life. There are just so many examples of this that you'd have to boycott half the art out there. Humans - not just artists - do bad things. Sometimes they do bad things and create great art. Sometimes they do good things and create nothing. This is a reflection of our flawed humanity. It's not a reflection of how good or bad you are as a person if you like a piece of art.

I'd say anyone should read "The Daily Beast" piece though. It's illuminating.

Thanks Rose n Toast. Baldwin, as usual, does not mince words.

I really do believe this is NOT an issue especially for tweets, and I agree with Baldwin about that, but it's a shame it's being aired out in places like "the daily beast", "vanity fair" or the "new york times".

I also believe it has nothing to do with his work being honoured at the GG's either. But that's my take.

This matter should be between the family and the court, and like Cate Blanchett I wish nothing but personal peace for all of the family.

Moses Farrow is no longer associating with Mia (he feels he was brainwashed) and is now friendly with Woody and Soon-Yi again. He's a photographer; you can see his work here:

http://fineartamerica.com/art/all/moses+farrow/all
I'm happy to say that I am not at all a fan of Woody's work ... I thought Annie Hall was one of the more dysfunctional, unpleasant movies I'd seen. The downside is that, like Walmart, I was already boycotting, so I can't start.

Just wanted to say that a matter than involves the court by definition involves us, the community. It is not between the family and the court. The court represents us, and we the people of this democracy should be cognizant of what our courts are doing (because they aren't always very good at achieving justice).

Typically I am biased toward the abused rather than the alleged abuser. For every false accusation, there are probably 100 abusers who've apparently (there's always karma, which is universal law and no one escapes) gotten away scot-free.

Wrt Mia approving a clip, that makes some sense to me. She may feel it's wrong to stop the free flow of information, but at the same time feels uncomfortable with the tribute. Multiple people in this thread are conflicted too.

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06-02-2014
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^ Indeed ... as am I fashionista-ta, as am I (re: your penultimate words), and you have a point re: the clips, although I still thinking leaving them out would've been a powerful statement.

Anyhow, I will abstain from commenting anymore on this thread, because I am in no way, nor have I ever been, a rape apologist. And yet that is what I've been called. This is an awful situation all-round. I hope Dylan finds resolution, if not in court, then at least through other kinds of support - and indeed the family as a whole, whatever that resolution may be. Clearly, they are torn apart, going back decades. Lucky for you re: the art/artist conundrum in this situation: it's one I'll never resolve broadly-speaking, because, for example, I love Polanski's films, Picasso's work, Poe's short-stories, T.S. Eliot's poetry, and so on and so forth, and all of them have done or believed in horrid things.

Hope all is well with you.

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Last edited by Not Plain Jane; 06-02-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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07-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decalion View Post
Yes, of course. All I'm saying is, it's a significant enough complication (to me) to make choosing a side to convict impossible at this stage. Dylan/Mia/Ronan need to offer an explanation of why Moses is contradicting them (i.e. Is he upset about something else like a disintegration of his relationship with the other Farrows? Is he fascinated by Woody's fame and desirous of and willing to do anything to get in his good graces?). They need to say something with more substance than "Betrayal! He's dead to me!" if I'm going to cross the line from agnosticism about this case into a condemnation of Woody. Likewise, Moses should elaborate on the brainwashing he's alleged. (i.e. Does he have specific recollections of Mia coaching him or the other children? More anecdotes?)
The way family member act towards the accused say more about have themselves than about what actually happened. Anyone that ever knew a victim of abuse can tell you that not even an admission of guilt from the part of the accused is enough to put all family on the side of the victim. The fact that Ronan believes Dylan doesn't give her testimony more credibility, and Moses changing his mind whatever his reasons, is directly connected with the relationship he has now with Allen.
The last thing this story needs is once again the focus to be taken our of Dylan, like Allen has been doing since the little girl made these claims, and be put on who takes the side of whom.

The judges pronouncement when the girl made those claims initially makes shocking reading, so I sincerely hope that there is a way for this accusations to be properly investigated again, so that this subject can be put to rest by all parts involved. You cannot have a daughter accusing her high profile father of sexual abuse and simply do nothing.
Or he believes she's lying and he can go to court to refute this allegations to clear his name, or this "she believes it happened" and do nothing is a very convenient way to skirt the issue and leave things unresolved.

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08-02-2014
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Woody wrote and op-ed, which I don't particularly want to read, and brilliantly Dylan replied immediately. I admire how she won't be silenced any more.

This is Woody's: http://mobile.nytimes.com/redirect?t...%26referrer%3D

This is Dylan's response: http://m.hollywoodreporter.com/news/...y-allen-678552

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08-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedust1603 View Post
Woody wrote and op-ed, which I don't particularly want to read,
Dont' worry. He's just shifting the blame to Mia and using a lot of fancy words to describe how Mia is a manipulative shrewd and has been scheming this all along because she's evil.

I'm glad that Dylan is still fighting. I hope she can find the peace and justice she rightfully deserves.

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08-02-2014
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Originally Posted by StoneSkipper View Post
Dont' worry. He's just shifting the blame to Mia and using a lot of fancy words to describe how Mia is a manipulative shrewd and has been scheming this all along because she's evil.

I'm glad that Dylan is still fighting. I hope she can find the peace and justice she rightfully deserves.
The fact that he's trying to make this all about Mia speaks volumes. Like I said before, I'm under no impression that she's a perfect mother or a person but it's not about that. It's about a man abusing a child.

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