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02-11-2007
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Surely you can wear fur coats and help dogs and cats? Same for the whales and tuna, no?

Congrats for holding people to strict ethics, but I think its just as fair to pick and choose what matters to you and a lot more realistic.


Last edited by lollicandy; 02-11-2007 at 07:33 PM.
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02-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misssakura View Post
In india the cow isn't sacred...that's a western myth. It used to be but now cruelty to cows is worse in India than it is anywhere else in the world, without even proper slaughter regulations. India also produces $5 billion worth of leather each year in exports.
.
whoops! edit: The cow is sacred to the Hindu tradition... and you don't see Hinduists banging down our doors for slaughtering cows for our Big Macs.

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02-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollicandy View Post
Surely you can wear fur coats and help dogs and cats? Same for the whales and tuna, no?

Congrats for holding people to strict ethics, but I think its just as fair to pick and choose what matters to you and a lot more realistic.
Sure you can, but it's still hypocritical, and people will take you less seriously. Fair enough, isn't it?

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02-11-2007
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I suppose I should explain my stance a little bit better. As far as people's diets go, I think that if people ate meat once a week instead of twice a day, that's a huge impact, every little bit helps. That's not saying that people feel bad about eating meat, they just limit their impact on the environment. That's a completely difference stance to picking and choosing what animals deserve our compassion and which ones don't.

If you're going to say that a dolphin deserves more compassion than a cow, then that's setting (imo) a dangerous ethical precident, where we pick and choose which animals have feelings, which ones suit our ideas of intelligence, which ones match our personalities most.

Maybe Hayden is a vegetarian, maybe she supports all other aspects of animal welfare, all I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this was a phase, as I've seen a large section of my friends go through it. Save the cute dolphins. In a year or two, it's saving the children in malawi. And then it's about buying eco lightbulbs. Phase, phase phase. Phase!

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02-11-2007
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Quote:
All I'm saying is, it's easier to take it more seriously if the person has expressed distaste over the treatment of animals before
I do understand that, but the girl is still quite young and I applaud her for at least, trying.

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02-11-2007
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Well that's true, better to go out and do something rather than laze around on a couch at home.

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02-11-2007
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Originally Posted by kathleen9804 View Post
Nothing lives forever???

Wow you have the answers huh... we might as well just quit living and all kill ourselves now.
Give me a break! Who says anything about quit living? You are thinking WAY TOO HARD about what I said. And took it the wrong way kathleen!

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02-11-2007
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Originally Posted by Harumi View Post
Does that mean you are only compassionate to species which remind you of your own? How amoral...
Pain is pain. You don't need to be smart to experience pain. Any creature able to experience sensations and basic emotions will experience suffering.
Mental anguish? What do you mean? Like psychosis, scarring? That's assuming those animals have a psychic life comparable to that of humans, which we have no proof of. We don't even know if Dolphins are self-conscious (or is the word self-aware?).
Absolutely. If you any kind of animal, you have no right to lecture other people about their diet, unless the prey in question is an endangered species.
Pigs, dogs, dolphins, tuna, bats, beef: there is absolutely no difference, imo.
A lot of people in Occident are outraged that dogs and cats are eaten in Asia but have no problem with pork living in filthy conditions and ending their lives in ham slides. Well, as it happens, pigs rank among the smartest and most sensitive domesticated animals. They also are very clean, when given the opportunity. Sadly, they are not as cute as dolphin, not as gifted as to dog when it comes to display affection, and not as elegant and useful as horses, so nobody gives a damn.
Try to fricassee a Chihuahua (daft, useless animal if there is one) and watch what will be coming your way, yet I hear no mention of the 'mental anguish' of the comparatively much smarter sheep.
I disagree. Well with the advances of agriculture and science, we are now able, for the first time in human history, to have a perfectly healthy diet that doesn't include meat of any kind. We can get all or vitamins. proteins, fats and other stuff from fruits, nuts, vegetables, leaves and artificial complements.
So theoretically, it would be possible to come back to this lifestyle, expect it would be restricted to very few.
Exactly! Why just pick a handful of species based on certain criteria? Why not save all species?

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03-11-2007
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^ So it's all or nothing with you?

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03-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misssakura View Post
Sure you can, but it's still hypocritical, and people will take you less seriously. Fair enough, isn't it?
True (not having a go at you btw, because I did read your later post), but not one person can protest against everything that's wrong with using animals for our own purposes, whether that's for eating, drinking/milking (commercial dairies), wearing (leather, fur etc), hunting for fun rather than for necessity, cosmetics/skincare/fragrance, owning (puppy and kitten mills not to mention fish, reptiles, birds, hamsters, ferrets, rabbits and the "other" types of comparatively cheap and extremely disposable pets, oh and dog fighting, c*ck fighting)...

If you pick and choose your causes then at least you can concentrate your energy on one or two areas you feel very strongly about and make a bit of a difference rather than trying to be against everything and succeeding in establishing no awareness at all. Anyway, if people want to go down the "well only vegetarians have the right to get upset at dolphin killings" path then vegans may well pipe up with a morally superior retort. Etc. Where does one draw the line?

I haven't even got to the people (and I know several) who think animal causes are a waste of time and you should protest instead against all the horrible things human beings do to each other... I don't like the horrible things humans do to each other either, but you can't please everyone when you support a cause, so you may as well support the causes you're very passionate about.

Wow, that was long. End of rant!


Last edited by joie; 03-11-2007 at 06:47 AM. Reason: wording
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03-11-2007
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^ Brilliant post!

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03-11-2007
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^^ I agree. And then it's all just a slippery slope once we make provisions for one animal. then people begin questioning not only the killing of animals for food/customary purposes, why do we use animals for testing? Medical research today practically depends on animal-testing. That means giving them diseases so we can test our drugs on them, and then killing them off. Or maybe we give them diseases and hold them for observation- make them suffer throughout their lives. That's worse than killing them for food, it's a waste of the animal.

I sympathize with all the animal rights groups, but there's only so much you can do before you open a huge can of worms. If these dolphins were being killed for just pure pleasure, well yeah lots of people would have no problem with putting an end to the whole thing. That's why there's a fur issue- why kill animals when we can do synthetic? But let's face it, there's no way that practices like animal testing, the dolphin-hunt, and whale-hunt, and our slaughterhouses are going to be shut down, when people can get something out of it. The PETA protests animal-testing, but they have to realize that there is a reason medical researchers do it- so that members of the PETA aren't given a drug that works in cell fibroblasts and not mammals.

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03-11-2007
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I wasn't saying that the Japanese weren't responsible for tuna overfishing. They are, however, making strides in farming technology. I didn't know about the egg industry there. That's messed up! In any case, that's far worse than the dolphin thing, as far as lives lost, and suffering caused. Maybe Hayden should be protesting that. Oh yeah. Chickens are gross, not cute.

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03-11-2007
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I don't think that people should protest about every cause. I'm not saying that if you protest about dolphins then by default you have to champion every animal rights cause. It's just not practical. I'm just saying that people shouldn't put one species above another, since as far as science has proven they have the same ability to feel pain and fear.

It's not about fighting every cause. It's about being consistent with your principles.

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03-11-2007
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Quote:
“Now more than ever the world has to come together to make changes. Just because certain cultures have had long-standing traditions does not mean that in today’s world they are acceptable any longer. The world and the environment are evolving and that means we must change our ways as human beings as well.”
The dolphins and whales in our ocean are a part of a larger eco-system that prevents the killing off of other marine life. By destroying these animals and not allowing our future generations to enjoy their beauty, we are causing our own selves damage. I always felt the need to speak on behalf of these helpless creatures who can not defend themselves.
Because I am in the public eye I feel the need to be a voice of worthy and important causes whose efforts impact the lives of every person on Earth. These animals are being brutally and unnecessarily slaughtered – and who are we to say to they have less of a right to exist than we do.”
- Heroes star Hayden Panettiere said in a statement released on Friday
Source, Perezhilton.com

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