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04-11-2007
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This is so upsetting

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04-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen View Post
Give me a break! Who says anything about quit living? You are thinking WAY TOO HARD about what I said. And took it the wrong way kathleen!
Im just saying that your logic sounded pretty damn depressing... and this is a serious thread so I am taking it somewhat seriously. Apologies.

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04-11-2007
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great arguments from all sides.

personally, im not all that moved by haydens attempts at helping save this small group of dolphins...while she was out there on her surfboard, hundreds of other whales were dying at that moment, thousands of trees were being hacked in the rainforests, undiscovered species were meeting their own extinction, all by the hands of human beings.

i really dont think we can save our selfs from our own destruction. we have disrupted the ecological balance of this planet so dramatically, i really believe there's nothing we can do to ammend it.

human beings are the cause for the majority of this stuff we see small groups of people trying to stop: deaths of animals, deforestation, nuclear testing, sonar testing, etc. we overfarm, we care only about our own survival and existance above and beyond that of any other living creature on this planet.

I tried protesting years ago....it really doesn't do much at all. I did the vegetarian route, and tried the vegan things as well. the price of organic food and produce is so high, that it actually costs much more to be able to eat healthy, and then the consumerism and capitalistic notions of 'organic business' comes into play. someone owns these comapnies, and there IS competition from other organic markets, and there you have another business market, where money is a key aspect.

now, i eat meat. i will continue to do so. i wear leather, work with leather....i dont have problems with fur anymore. I am half native american as well, and truely believe if i live my life in moderation, take only what i need and try my best not to waste, overbuy or overuse materials or foods, that im doing my own part to help maintain the earth, or what's left of it. I truely believe anything any celebrity, millionaire, etc... could possibly do, could not change what the human race has done. Money will always come into play, as will politics and whatnot, and with the majority of the human race thinking they are superior to anything here on earth, i really cannot see a positive outcome to the future history of the human race.

i guess that can be read by some as a very negative way to see life, but i relate it more closely to the mindset of a zen buddhist in which they try their best to not disrupt the natural balance of things and live their life as best they can, and harmonize and stay in touch with the natural things in their lives.

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04-11-2007
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^Like your post. I think its great some people want to live an 'austere' life or hold themselves to a higher standard, but to me moderation (in eating meat, wearing leather/fur) is a far more plausible and palatable answer to the world's issues rather than 'oh to hell with it' attitude. The real issue I see at least in America in relation to pollution, meat industry etc., has really deep roots in a 'more is better' culture and consumer complacency (sp?). Moderation, picking/choosing is it hypocritical? I think it depends on your beliefs. I don't.

And it sounds a lot like Daoism that you're referring to.

^^LOL, I wouldn't take anything in TFS that seriously.


Last edited by lollicandy; 04-11-2007 at 08:57 PM.
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04-11-2007
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Well, moderation is definitely a good thing. But do you think that the world could sustain itself if a vast majority of it wasn't under nourished, if previously poor countries all ate meat and wore leather in 'moderation'? It's a really subjective word. For most people it means eating meat once a day instead of 3 times a day, and only owning 3 leather bags as opposed to 10. Is that a correct definition of moderation?

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05-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misssakura View Post
Well, moderation is definitely a good thing. But do you think that the world could sustain itself if a vast majority of it wasn't under nourished, if previously poor countries all ate meat and wore leather in 'moderation'? It's a really subjective word. For most people it means eating meat once a day instead of 3 times a day, and only owning 3 leather bags as opposed to 10. Is that a correct definition of moderation?
of course i dont think it could ( the world sustaining iteself). we are undersourced for food, and overpopulated. there's no way if everyone ate in moderation that the world would be a better place. I still think we're going to be responsible for our own destruction and perhaps that of this planet. When i speak of moderation, it's really only in terms of myself and the things i interact with. I cannot speak for anyone else and what would appropriate for them.

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08-11-2007
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Am i the only one here who thinks this Hayden girl was is a bit on the stupid side in attempting to move a mountain with a spoon?! She went out into the ocean on a freaking surfboard without knowing how to speak the language to stop fishermen (yes, fishermen, they fish for a living, meaning that their income and lifestyles depend on this) from killing dolphins. Yes, it is sad, and if i were the mighty rajah of the ocean, i would prevent something like that from ever happening, but what the hell was she planning to do? Whack these men with her surfboard? Plaster herself to these dolphins along the notion of "if thou perish, i perish with thee"?!

I know there are those who say "at least she's doing something," but I think all she really did was insult the Japanese and throw a media-captured tantrum, if you will. There were so many countless ways she could have gone about this in a mature, and politically effective manner. Obviously, these thoughts were unable to be formed in that beautiful little (little being the operative word) skull of hers.

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08-11-2007
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^ Dolphins/Whales are mammals, not fish. So fishermen should fish for fish, not dolphins/whales.


Last edited by eurofashionjunki; 08-11-2007 at 08:22 AM.
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08-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurofashionjunki View Post
^ Dolphins/Whales are mammals, not fish. So fishermen should fish for fish, not dolphins/whales.
Not only that, but they are intelligent mammals. Case in point: this recent news story about how a bunch of dolphins formed a protective ring around a wounded surfer and successfully fended of a great white shark: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21689083/

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08-11-2007
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Quote:
True (not having a go at you btw, because I did read your later post), but not one person can protest against everything that's wrong with using animals for our own purposes, whether that's for eating, drinking/milking (commercial dairies), wearing (leather, fur etc), hunting for fun rather than for necessity, cosmetics/skincare/fragrance, owning (puppy and kitten mills not to mention fish, reptiles, birds, hamsters, ferrets, rabbits and the "other" types of comparatively cheap and extremely disposable pets, oh and dog fighting, c*ck fighting)...

If you pick and choose your causes then at least you can concentrate your energy on one or two areas you feel very strongly about and make a bit of a difference rather than trying to be against everything and succeeding in establishing no awareness at all. Anyway, if people want to go down the "well only vegetarians have the right to get upset at dolphin killings" path then vegans may well pipe up with a morally superior retort. Etc. Where does one draw the line?

I haven't even got to the people (and I know several) who think animal causes are a waste of time and you should protest instead against all the horrible things human beings do to each other... I don't like the horrible things humans do to each other either, but you can't please everyone when you support a cause, so you may as well support the causes you're very passionate about.

Wow, that was long. End of rant!
Brilliant post.

We can't do everything, but we can at least try do something. And even if it doesn't change anything on the whole, that's no reason to not help out.

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08-11-2007
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^ Agreed, that was the best post!

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09-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ce'nedra View Post
Am i the only one here who thinks this Hayden girl was is a bit on the stupid side in attempting to move a mountain with a spoon?! She went out into the ocean on a freaking surfboard without knowing how to speak the language to stop fishermen (yes, fishermen, they fish for a living, meaning that their income and lifestyles depend on this) from killing dolphins. Yes, it is sad, and if i were the mighty rajah of the ocean, i would prevent something like that from ever happening, but what the hell was she planning to do? Whack these men with her surfboard? Plaster herself to these dolphins along the notion of "if thou perish, i perish with thee"?!

I know there are those who say "at least she's doing something," but I think all she really did was insult the Japanese and throw a media-captured tantrum, if you will. There were so many countless ways she could have gone about this in a mature, and politically effective manner. Obviously, these thoughts were unable to be formed in that beautiful little (little being the operative word) skull of hers.
not the only one. i wholeheartedly agree with you as well. The green peace people do the same to the native american tribes who hunt whales up in the arctic and near alaska. A traditional way of life and a food that is able to sustain them, as well as provide the necessary nourishment for the harsh climate they live in. Yet green peace like to go in, ignore their traditions, ways of life, culture and natural way of obtaining food and make a spectacle.

yes, dolphins are mammals. yes they are intelligent. Many animals I'm sure are more intelligent than the majority of the human race, but that fact does not stop us from treating them as something beneath us and killing them for food, skin, sport, etc. We are as smart as ourselves, as yet we still kill eat other. Humans kill humans too.

If anything, I would be more against bullsh*t sportsfishing or sporthunting, where the particants only reason of hunting is for the kill and the head of the animal. If they kill and waste, i find that so much more disturbing than people who are fishing and killing for food they have eaten for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

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09-11-2007
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Originally Posted by eternitygoddess View Post
Brilliant post.

We can't do everything, but we can at least try do something. And even if it doesn't change anything on the whole, that's no reason to not help out.
ignorance IS bliss, i suppose...

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09-11-2007
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Quote:
urfer Todd Endris needed a miracle. The shark — a monster great white that came out of nowhere — had hit him three times, peeling the skin off his back and mauling his right leg to the bone. That’s when a pod of bottlenose dolphins intervened, forming a protective ring around Endris, allowing him to get to shore, where quick first aid provided by a friend saved his life.
“Truly a miracle,” Endris told TODAY’s Natalie Morales on Thursday.



The attack occurred on Tuesday, Aug. 28, just before 11 a.m. at Marina State Park off Monterey, Calif., where the 24-year-old owner of Monterey Aquarium Services had gone with friends for a day of the sport they love. Nearly four months later, Endris, who is still undergoing physical therapy to repair muscle damage suffered during the attack, is back in the water and on his board in the same spot where he almost lost his life.
“[It] came out of nowhere. There’s no warning at all.
TODAY
Todd Endris
Maybe I saw him a quarter second before it hit me. But no warning. It was just a giant shark,” Endris said. “It just shows you what a perfect predator they really are.”
The shark, estimated at 12 to 15 feet long, hit him first as Endris was sitting on his surfboard, but couldn’t get its monster jaws around both surfer and surfboard. “The second time, he came down and clamped on my torso — sandwiched my board and my torso in his mouth,” Endris said.
That attack shredded his back, literally peeling the skin back, he said, “like a banana peel.” But because Endris’ stomach was pressed to the surfboard, his intestines and internal organs were protected.
The third time, the shark tried to swallow Endris’ right leg, and he said that was actually a good thing, because the shark’s grip anchored him while he kicked the beast in the head and snout with his left leg until it let go.
The dolphins, which had been cavorting in the surf all along, showed up then. They circled him, keeping the shark at bay, and enabled Endris to get back on his board and catch a wave to the shore.
Our finned friends
No one knows why dolphins protect humans, but stories of the marine mammals rescuing humans go back to ancient Greece, according to the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society.
A year ago in New Zealand, the group reports, four lifeguards were saved from sharks in the same way Endris was — by dolphins forming a protective ring.
Though horribly wounded, Endris said he didn’t think he was going to die. “Actually, it never crossed my mind,” he told Morales.
It did, though, cross the minds of others on the beach, including some lifeguards who told his friend, Brian Simpson, that Endris wasn’t going to make it.
Simpson is an X-ray technician in a hospital trauma center, and he’d seen badly injured people before. He had seen Endris coming in and knew he was hurt.
“I was expecting him to have leg injuries,” he told Morales. “It was a lot worse than I was expecting.”
Blood was pumping out of the leg, which had been bitten to the bone, and Endris, who lost half his blood, was ashen white. To stop the blood loss, Simpson used his surf leash as a tourniquet, which probably saved his life.
“Thanks to this guy,” Endris said, referring to Simpson, who sat next to him in the TODAY studio, “once I got to the beach, he was calming me down and keeping me from losing more blood by telling me to slow my breathing and really just be calm. They wouldn’t let me look at my wounds at all, which really helped.
A medivac helicopter took him to a hospital, where a surgeon had to first figure out what went where before putting him back together.
“It was like putting together a jigsaw puzzle,” Endris said.
Six weeks later, he was well enough to go surfing again, and the place he went was back to Marina State Park. It wasn’t easy to go back in the water.
“You really have to face your fears,” he told Morales. “I’m a surfer at heart, and that’s not something I can give up real easily. It was hard. But it was something you have to do.”
The shark went on its way, protected inside the waters of the park, which is a marine wildlife refuge. Endris wouldn’t want it any other way.
“I wouldn’t want to go after the shark anyway,” he said. “We’re in his realm, not the other way around.”
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21689083/



See, dolphins are nice and friendly, and we screw them over. Remember, there is no such thing as dolphin friendly tuna.

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09-11-2007
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Nobody said dolphins weren't friendly. They really are! But once again, a slippery slope. We don't make a huge fuss over dogs being brutally beaten alive (to tenderize their meat) and then eaten in some countries. And they're man's best friend! They guide the blind, can detect heartattacks/seizures, and save lives too. If these countries get away with doing this to dogs, I don't see how Japan won't get away with hunting dolphins. The Japanese don't even torture the dolphins before killing them. I love dolphins, I really do, but I don't see how anything we can say will change this custom.

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