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12-12-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masquerade
how can he be one of the most important preformers of our time, hes not even known outside of england/europe.
In the same way that America can have a 'World Series' of a sport that only Americans play?


Good for Mr. Slimane.

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12-12-2005
  17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiennaInLondon
Living through the Doherty frenzy feels like living through the Sex Pistols frenzy or the Beatles frenzy or the Britpop frenzy. It is combining rock, fashion, media, the mythology. Every ingredient in the 'make-music-history' recipe is in there. There is simply NO DOUBT that it is artistically and culturally important.
I agree; very well-said!

Though Pete is living rough at the moment, he is a very talented song writer. People like to slag him off just because there's been an over-bombardment of tabloid media on him recently, but if you listen to his records, specifically his older songs (You're my Waterloo, Anything but Love, Breck Road Lover, etc.) there's no denying that he has talent to back it up.

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12-12-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCats
In the same way that America can have a 'World Series' of a sport that only Americans play?


Good for Mr. Slimane.
I loved that (answer) and maybe will want to repeat it so karma for you.

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13-12-2005
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LOVE Breck Road Lover!!!

Yes his performances can be dire (but never ever charmless) but he is one of those artists you have to put in some effort to understand. It isn't always about the released albums or the shows, it is about the bootlegs, the private sessions ie the Whitechapel Demos... I honestly believe that the hardest things are the most rewarding in life and effort pays dividends. Pop music is so easy but there you can't get anything from it.

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13-12-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyfantastica
Oh god. Please do not compare this Pete Doherty circus with the Beatles or the Pistols. To do so you insult them.
Do you really doubt then, that people wouldn't have said the same thing about the Pistols once upon a time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyfantastica
There is nothing clever about a band with a frontman who is so off his face on drugs that they do not turn up to gigs and therefore do not respect their fans.
There is nothing clever about drugs full stop but one aspect of someone's life does not always affect all other aspects. Behind stupid when it comes to drugs does not make him musically incompetant. I really can't see the link

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13-12-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbirdsel
Sounds interesting. Sure Slimane appears a bit too much obsessed with Doherty, but i think modern culture hasnt seen a figure like him for a while. Its fascinating to see how people react to him today, although he seems to have read the romantic rock'n'roll stereotype bible. Personally i find him refreshing in so many ways, and whilst his life may appear to be "wasting" away its his to live.
I know! It is a thin line between refreshing and cliched for him but he walks the right side of it due to his sheer talent and charisma. Nothing more or less.

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13-12-2005
  22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tastes_like_chic
Hear hear!

Hedi should stick to designing and photographing hehe.

I don't see how this could possibly inspire a generation?

http://nw.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=76612


He gets publicity because he always kisses and tells about his relationship with Kate. She is so private, which makes him all the more interesting. Somewhat fame-whorish if you ask me
Fame whorish -yes maybe. It and talent aren't mutually exclusive though. As for that photo... I don't see how these could inspire a generation but they did didn't they?



....Plus come on he is HOT! I can't understand how everyone doesn't see it

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13-12-2005
  23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroin_Chic
My god! I thought Hedi Slimane was a man of good taste!
...why?


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14-12-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiennaInLondon
Do you really doubt then, that people wouldn't have said the same thing about the Pistols once upon a time?
I do suggest that. Doherty is not doing anything groundbreaking. The pistols revolutionised the punk scene, they created a phenomenon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SiennaInLondon
There is nothing clever about drugs full stop but one aspect of someone's life does not always affect all other aspects. Behind stupid when it comes to drugs does not make him musically incompetant. I really can't see the link
It makes him musically incompetant when he cannot sing properly becuase he is close to collapse on the stage or even worse when he cannot turn up to do the job that his label pay him to do. I know Doherty's manager and therefore know how frustrating it is for all concerned when the circus literally cannot come to town.

I'm afraid that when i see Doherty perform I am not struck by his 'charm'. I think that as a fan you are trying to see something in him that you can admire. I understand music perfectly well as well and work in the industry as a promotor and A&R. The reason that Doherty has managed to carve a living out of music is namely due to the tabloids. His latest album is rushed and sloppy throughout the majority. It is thoughtless and shows that Doherty is now basing his career on the influence of his relationships and 'infamous' persona. We do not live in a culture any longer where drugs are taken by the glorious few in the music industry who can afford the coke at 100 quid a pop. We live in a society whereby it should not be okay to be able to perform obviously off your head. I would not dream of allowing a band to play to 14 year olds at my club if the lead singer was in the state that Doherty is, and as a result i would not even think about putting on BS.

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16-12-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiennaInLondon
Fame whorish -yes maybe. It and talent aren't mutually exclusive though. As for that photo... I don't see how these could inspire a generation but they did didn't they?


....Plus come on he is HOT! I can't understand how everyone doesn't see it
Yeah I see your point, but each of thos three has something about them.

Mick Jagger - he has charisma, regardless of his skinny-ness and large mouth... not to mention he is dynamite on stage (back in the day).

Sid - he helped start a rebellion with music and fashion... I guess to many around the world, the Sex Pistols were nothing that they'd ever seen before - they were a curiosity.

Janis Joplin - drank like a man, lived like a man. She was a definitive part of feminism I believe. She's very liberated.

But Pete Doherty... I just will never see it

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16-12-2005
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Sienna, please credit the pictures.

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10-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tastes_like_chic
Yeah I see your point, but each of thos three has something about them.

Mick Jagger - he has charisma, regardless of his skinny-ness and large mouth... not to mention he is dynamite on stage (back in the day).

Sid - he helped start a rebellion with music and fashion... I guess to many around the world, the Sex Pistols were nothing that they'd ever seen before - they were a curiosity.

Janis Joplin - drank like a man, lived like a man. She was a definitive part of feminism I believe. She's very liberated.

But Pete Doherty... I just will never see it




i'm sorry for reviving this thread but i just had to comment when i read this cause i can't believe how you can possibly be positive about sid vicious and sort of flame pete doherty, it's just so incredibly ignorant......

sid vicious was a stupid idiot who couln't even play an instrument. he was a pathetic loser and did all the '' outrageous'' stuff mclaren told him to do, so it was easier to turn the pistols into a huge hype. sid then got so stoned in his hotelroom that is girlfriend ended up dead, so i think the world is really a better place without him.
there only ever was one sex pistol, john lydon. he proved he had a musical vision and didn't care about the hype and mclaren with Pil's metal box.

pete doherty is an extremely talented songwriter and responsible for some of the best songs of the last decade. together with carl barat he revived the uk guitar rock scene and every band that's become populair since are in his debt. he was the ultimate libertine. he cared about his fans with the impromptu gigs in the albion rooms and the brilliant live performances.

for all those reasons it is very, very sad that he turned into a junkie. it is nowadays a suprise when he does turn up for a gig, and when he does they usually suck. although a lot of stuff that is written about him in the tabloids is not true or exagerrated he still needs help. the little signs of his brilliance that are shown every once in a while only emphasise what he could do with his music. those signs in my opinion are **** forever and a little less but still albion and killamangiro on the further bad babyshambles record.

but to conclude, even if he'll never make a great album he will leave the world with 2 of the best albums of all time + some additional brilliant songs, a major influence on the music scene of the 21 century and a true libertine (2002-2004).

ps about the american who said that he/she had never heard of pete: that says a lot more about you then about pete........

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10-06-2006
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Lately Pete has become a cartoon character that the tabloids have created, but they never write about the brilliance of his music, Albion, or everyone he has inspired, because that won't sell very many papers. I'm glad that Hedi sees that side of Pete.

RobbertJam you're right the Sex Pistols really could not back up their behavior with their music unlike Pete can.

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10-06-2006
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But then again I have NEVER heard anybody, tabloids or whomever, doubt that he is a brilliant brilliant songwriter. And it says a lot about your talent when even your most ardent critics avoid condemning it.

In response to Robbert, I am reaching the stage where if you offered me Dirty Pretty Things, Babyshambles, The Libertines and Yeti, I would pick Babyshambles. Shocking I know but in terms of the released material, the Libertines sound was more commercial than Babyshambles. The Shambles take what the Libertines did best and made it purer. If you add the bands up, you basically get the Libertines. Carl and Gary have the rock element, Yeti has that distinctive bass and Babyshambles... they sound like a bunch of eighteenth century troubadours, going from town to town and earning their crust (modern day version: drug money) with their talent honed on the streets of London. I have seen them live a few times and they (I say they, I mean him) have that spark still. A spark that Carl, much as I love him, doesn't. He looks tired and I worry about him more than I worry about Peter because as the one with the alcohol problem and the smashing-face-againt-sink problem -he is one with the depression. I just don't know...

Lets not pretend that Shambles is Peter's drug band. Yes it is his denial band but he was seriously off his face whilst making Up The Bracket and that is the dream we bought into.

And yes there is A LOT of ignorance about Sid Vicious. Let us not forget that the Sex Pistols, as fun as they are, were a MANUFACTURED BAND. No more no less. And the Libs are as far from that as you can possibly get.

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10-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbertJan
i'm sorry for reviving this thread but i just had to comment when i read this cause i can't believe how you can possibly be positive about sid vicious and sort of flame pete doherty, it's just so incredibly ignorant......
I was not necessarily positive, I was stating FACTS. Sid Vicious was almost a first... no one had seen performers like the Sex Pistols berfore... someone who couldn't exactly play an instrument but still captured the curiosity of many people.
The Sex Pistols started a movement - despite not being that great in the singing/songwriting (IMO) department....

I don't doubt Pete Doherty has some kind of talent (just by someone willing to call me ignorant because I am not inspired by him), but his problems over-ride that now.

Don't call me ignorant, just because I don't worship what Pete Doherty COULD HAVE been doesn't mean I am clueless.

Keep your insults to yourself.

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Last edited by tastes_like_chic; 10-06-2006 at 05:04 PM.
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