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15-09-2012
  106
clever ain't wise
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user.n. View Post
I think it's right to took back his LdH award if he's a criminal (...) but the timing just seems to be another kicka**. Maybe it's only the slow bureaucracy, maybe not, but it's strange.

For those who can't get why he still have fans / why ppl keep defending him: it's because the process he went through i think. I mean he had problems, it was clearer than the sun. It's not just a fiction he found out to defend himself, just take a look at his runway pictures from 2009-2010 (maybe im not right about the date) to get a proof. He looked terrible in those days, so it's not surprising he had mental issues as well.

So if there's an ill man who made harsh and bad comments (let's not count the other circumstances), do you think it's totally right to kick him more? John Galliano as a designer has lost everything he has worked for, but there's no need to stigmatize John Galliano the person behind the case. He needed help. Period.
I think it's for a bit longer than that. It seemed like a miracle that he was able to string sentences - and such beautiful ones at that - together in the interviews around the shows. Even better than pictures, look at the style.com videos and you'll see that he's barely there from 2007-2010. It's that out-of-control quality that made him so special, of course, but he took it a couple of steps too far. And, in a way, this whole scandal and the harsh treatment he received could be what saved his life - and his future creations - because if he had continued spiraling, he may very well have died.

On the bright side, the recent pictures of him show him looking healthy and happy....so even if he's not hired yet he's surely making those beautiful designs, creating a portfolio that will one day stun the world.

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15-09-2012
  107
trendsetter
 
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I live in Peru a beautiful south america country but I am insulted and mocked every day by being gay by my appearance, by my soft voice by my delicate gestures with horrible, horrible words. Here the laws do not condemn it, but my heart has learned to forgive and understand these people.

So I do not understand why many people here are still condemning Galliano after all the law sentenced him, then why do you have the heart so hard why dont forgive and encourage a human being who made a mistake, after all its grandeur and the pride he gave to the nation of Franceand to the world is bigger than any stupid thing ever he said.

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16-09-2012
  108
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Once again, I am shocked by the comments in a John Galliano thread, and the constant apologizing for his behavior.

First and foremost, we need to stop with the "he's been punished enough" line. Getting fired from his job and arrested/fined were done by two different groups, the French government and the private company he worked for. Getting fired from his company is not a sufficient punishment for breaking the law and should not be considered when discussing this. Being stripped of his medal is related to the crime he committed, plain and simple.

Secondly, there seems to be a lot of talk about his "real intentions" or that having a possibly Jewish background lets this be ok. There are plenty of bigots who hate their own cultures. Until this post, I have never heard of his supposed Jewish ancestry and if he wasn't raised with it, it doesn't really matter. Nor is his alcoholism an excuse. I believe in in vino veritas. People do not become hateful by drinking, but it loosens inhibitions and allows them to be freer with their beliefs. It just seems to fit into the narrative some people want for him to be the tragic victim instead of being an adult who committed a crime and offended his employers.

Lastly, I am seeing people say that his comments don't hold weight because they aren't inciting violence or they are just words. In France, hate speech is against the law, so he committed a crime. Secondly, hate speech rarely leads to immediate riots in the street agains the intended target. Instead, it reinforced already held beliefs and gives a platform to those holding those beliefs. It allows hate to grow and normalize.

Either way, I think this is a suiting punishment for the crime, as the Legion of Honor is meant to celebrate French achievement and this incident was an embarrassment. He may redeem himself yet, but at this time, he hasn't so I am not sure why everyone is so quick to soil themselves over defending him.

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17-09-2012
  109
clever ain't wise
 
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^There's no need to ridicule people who have a different opinion.

In vino veritas is true for some people and some circumstances. It's not a fixed rule.

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17-09-2012
  110
V.I.P.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masquerade View Post
Once again, I am shocked by the comments in a John Galliano thread, and the constant apologizing for his behavior.

First and foremost, we need to stop with the "he's been punished enough" line. Getting fired from his job and arrested/fined were done by two different groups, the French government and the private company he worked for. Getting fired from his company is not a sufficient punishment for breaking the law and should not be considered when discussing this. Being stripped of his medal is related to the crime he committed, plain and simple.

Secondly, there seems to be a lot of talk about his "real intentions" or that having a possibly Jewish background lets this be ok. There are plenty of bigots who hate their own cultures. Until this post, I have never heard of his supposed Jewish ancestry and if he wasn't raised with it, it doesn't really matter. Nor is his alcoholism an excuse. I believe in in vino veritas. People do not become hateful by drinking, but it loosens inhibitions and allows them to be freer with their beliefs. It just seems to fit into the narrative some people want for him to be the tragic victim instead of being an adult who committed a crime and offended his employers.

Lastly, I am seeing people say that his comments don't hold weight because they aren't inciting violence or they are just words. In France, hate speech is against the law, so he committed a crime. Secondly, hate speech rarely leads to immediate riots in the street agains the intended target. Instead, it reinforced already held beliefs and gives a platform to those holding those beliefs. It allows hate to grow and normalize.

Either way, I think this is a suiting punishment for the crime, as the Legion of Honor is meant to celebrate French achievement and this incident was an embarrassment. He may redeem himself yet, but at this time, he hasn't so I am not sure why everyone is so quick to soil themselves over defending him.


1. No one's apologizing for his behavior. Let's not go overboard here. People acknowledge he messed up. The discussion isn't us saying poor Galliano didn't deserve to be fired/arrested/fined. It's us saying OK what now - after a whole year, why is he still getting flack when he's done everything possible, aside from turning back time, to move on with his life.

2. Just because the punishment come from different sources - how does that not relate to the punishment? I don't see your point here. If 5 different people kicked you, don't you still hurt?

3. People who have a bit of alcohol slip because they are still, in fact, conscious. People who are wasted have no idea what they're doing. If you watch the video, Galliano was hammered. And if you still hold on to the belief that he was showing his true colors, why haven't we seen this earlier? Camera phones have been around for at least half a decade already, and I'm sure Galliano has drunk alcohol in public before. Where was this crouching-tiger-hidden-bigot that people seem to believe exists?

4. Nurturing hate? Right, because all the neo-Nazis and various underground hate groups plotting new world order are looking at a gay flamboyant fashion designer to ignite that revolution.

5. Soiling ourselves? Heaven forbid someone avoid the knee-jerk reaction and actually looking at this on a deeper analytical level than just the black/white crime/punishment surface level.

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17-09-2012
  111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masquerade View Post
Once again, I am shocked by the comments in a John Galliano thread, and the constant apologizing for his behavior.

First and foremost, we need to stop with the "he's been punished enough" line. Getting fired from his job and arrested/fined were done by two different groups, the French government and the private company he worked for. Getting fired from his company is not a sufficient punishment for breaking the law and should not be considered when discussing this. Being stripped of his medal is related to the crime he committed, plain and simple.

Secondly, there seems to be a lot of talk about his "real intentions" or that having a possibly Jewish background lets this be ok. There are plenty of bigots who hate their own cultures. Until this post, I have never heard of his supposed Jewish ancestry and if he wasn't raised with it, it doesn't really matter. Nor is his alcoholism an excuse. I believe in in vino veritas. People do not become hateful by drinking, but it loosens inhibitions and allows them to be freer with their beliefs. It just seems to fit into the narrative some people want for him to be the tragic victim instead of being an adult who committed a crime and offended his employers.

Lastly, I am seeing people say that his comments don't hold weight because they aren't inciting violence or they are just words. In France, hate speech is against the law, so he committed a crime. Secondly, hate speech rarely leads to immediate riots in the street agains the intended target. Instead, it reinforced already held beliefs and gives a platform to those holding those beliefs. It allows hate to grow and normalize.

Either way, I think this is a suiting punishment for the crime, as the Legion of Honor is meant to celebrate French achievement and this incident was an embarrassment. He may redeem himself yet, but at this time, he hasn't so I am not sure why everyone is so quick to soil themselves over defending him.
Code:
He was raised in a strict Roman Catholic family
/wikipedia/
I guess the Jewish background is just a rumour to make his situation more dramatic.

Code:
People do not become hateful by drinking, but it loosens inhibitions and allows them to be freer with their beliefs.
The first part of your sentence is not true. Why? You answered it with the second part.

And please tell me what kind of punishment would satisfy you?

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17-09-2012
  112
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^As I stated, his punishment is suiting. He faced the legal consequences as well as the personal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa View Post
^There's no need to ridicule people who have a different opinion.

In vino veritas is true for some people and some circumstances. It's not a fixed rule.
I don't see where I am ridiculing people. I am just referring to attitudes in this post instead of quoting specific examples because there are 8 pages.

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17-09-2012
  113
Ère de ℳodernité
 
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^Completely agree with you, masquerade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleathquakes View Post
It's us saying OK what now - after a whole year, why is he still getting flack when he's done everything possible, aside from turning back time, to move on with his life.
... I said it once, I'll say it again: so what if it happened a year after?! Some people commit crimes and are sentenced years after. It doesn't make what they did any less important or more forgivable. In that particular case, it is written in French Law that one is to be stripped of their Legion of Honour if they commit a crime. Galliano was sentenced, he now has to face the consequences of his actions, and that, in every form.

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17-09-2012
  114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masquerade View Post
^As I stated, his punishment is suiting. He faced the legal consequences as well as the personal.

I don't see where I am ridiculing people. I am just referring to attitudes in this post instead of quoting specific examples because there are 8 pages.
Saying that the people you disagree with are soiling themselves trying to defend him is hardly polite or even civil.

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17-09-2012
  115
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I think ppl see him being stripped of Legion Of Honour as another form of saying he is anti semitic. And if you dont agree that he is that then natrually you think he should be able to keep his LOH.

But like some already have pointed out clearly, it is against french law to do and act like he did. If he did the crime elsewhere or got an another honor from another country, the outcome would have been different.

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30-09-2012
  116
Power to the 99%
 
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nytimes
Came across this just now (from 2011) when looking for current reviews ... I had no idea that Christian Dior's sister was sent to Buchenwald.

Quote:
Beforehand, Mr. Toledano spoke from the runway in French, his first public comment on the incident that has shaken the 64-year-old house. He said, “It has been deeply painful to see the Dior name associated with the disgraceful statements attributed to its designer, however brilliant he may be.” He called such statements intolerable and said that it was “our collective duty to never forget the Holocaust and its victims,” recalling, too, that Christian Dior’s sister had been sent to Buchenwald.

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30-09-2012
  117
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I don't know what people is expecting of John Galliano. Yes, he has been punished enough, yes he wasn't in his right mind, yes he's human, and he pays in a legal and mediatic way, isn't that enough? What are you expecting? That he maybe ask for forgiveness on his knees in the middle of Place Vendôme? A crucifixion? There's more racist in politics, television series and daily life people. Jeez, get over it.

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01-10-2012
  118
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Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
Came across this just now (from 2011) when looking for current reviews ... I had no idea that Christian Dior's sister was sent to Buchenwald.
Jezebel did an interesting article on that subject, with a little mention about the behaviour of some other relatives during wartime (jezebel.com):

Quote:
Like many people who lived through the Second World War and the Nazi occupation of France, Christian Dior had both relatives who were Nazi sympathizers (his niece Françoise, who became a full-fledged neo-Nazi later in life, counted hearing an occupying SS officer call her "What a beautiful little Aryan girl" as one of the "sweetest" memories of her childhood) and relatives who actively resisted the occupation. Christian Dior's own choices — to work in an industry that was on the one hand suppressed by the Nazis, who placed many restrictions on French fashion houses, and closed several, with a view to eventually dismantling the French fashion industry and making Berlin a fashion center, but which on the other hand necessarily depended, at least in part, on wealthy occupiers and collaborators for its clientele — were obviously equally complicated. The challenge today lies in seeking to accurately understand these choices, and the circumstances in which they were made.
It's never convenient to recall the ones who turned out to have chosen the losing side...

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01-10-2012
  119
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^ Thank you. Ironically, Catherine Dior was awarded the Legion of Honor for her wartime activities. From the Jezebel article (including a correction to Toledano's speech):

Quote:
Dior's sister Catherine Dior was was not, in fact, sent to Buchenwald, which was (primarily) a men's camp. She went to Ravensbrück, where women were held. The journalist and historian Gitta Sereny's collection of writing about the Holocaust, The Healing Wound, describes Dior's crime: she had been a member of "the section 'Massif Central' of Polish intelligence in France," a Resistance network focused on gathering and transmitting intelligence about German troop movements, production, and weaponry.
...
The writer Prosper Keating shared a detailed account of Catherine and Christian Dior's wartime associations and activities at the Fashion Spot. Though forced to work under atrocious conditions at various German munitions factories, Catherine Dior survived the war and was liberated near Dresden in April, 1945. She returned to Paris that May. She was awarded the Croix de Guerre — "which was rare," notes Keating, "for a resistance member as it was usually reserved for regular armed forces" — as well as the Combatant Volunteer Cross of the Resistance, the Combatant Cross and, in the U.K., the King's Medal for Courage in the Cause of Freedom. She was named a chevalière of the Legion of Honour. Her brother Christian also had her in mind in 1947, when he named his first perfume Miss Dior. She died in 2008.

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18-02-2013
  120
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I did indeed share some of an op-ed piece I wrote with tFS readers. The Buchenwald reference was one of several errors in Mr Toledano's speech. Catherine Dior was deported and processed through Ravensbruck. I wrote the facts up here: http://forums.thefashionspot.com/sho...&postcount=729 The original op-ed piece was quickly deleted from the webzine sites where it appeared. Funny, that...

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Last edited by prosperk; 18-02-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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