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05-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fee de foret View Post
ugh i can't even express how wrong/irritating and flat out unprofessional this kind of behavior is, on so many levels. things like this make me wonder why i love this industry so much.
Im asking the same thing, (I hated MJ long before this) but Im an idealist and hope that the rest of the industry isn't as cheap.

Quote:
And then a lot of members complain when a model who hits a big contract stop walking runways, no wonder!
Im one of those, I guess I won't be complaining as much now, I love models I don't need to see them all the time, specially if they are being exploited (because there's no other word for it).

Quote:
Marc Jacobs Intl
‏@MarcJacobsIntl

@elliekrupnick @HuffPostStyle @jennasauers @Jezebel models are paid in trade. If they don't want to work w/ us, they don't have to.
Spare me.

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05-03-2012
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Originally Posted by MyNameIs View Post
Seriously, this sounds pretty despicable.
Despicable is exactly the word for it! It is a given that the designers can get away with it and for every model who balks there are twenty models who will gladly step in her shoes, but if major designers choose to take advantage of that situation and mindset that makes them despicable. A designer at Marc Jacob's level not paying his models* is despicable. I get that a significant portion of the people in the business, whether they are designers, photographers, models, stylists or editors, don't have the means to pay for services, so the trade situation makes sense for the "little" guys, but it is despicable when major players like Marc Jacobs and Vogue to exploit that aspect of fashion culture and thinking.

* Although I would not be surprised if the established models got paid.

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05-03-2012
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^^^Absolutely.

I've always disliked him, not only for his lack of talent, but his personality always comes off annoying. This is more reason to despise the little sleazy man that he is. although he's in every right to trade with the models, he should know better and pay them with currency-- if nothing else than just to be a decent man and set a standard for the industry. He can certainly afford to. And he knows very well it would be career suicide for a new model to refuse the opportunity to work with him.

Then again, I'm sure models could put these trades on eBay and make a tidy profit. The industry, and particularly for models, is all about networking. And for a very young model starting out, having the opportunity to work for a prestigious label like Marc Jacobs is, I'm sure in her mind, more exciting and fun then business.

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05-03-2012
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I'm honestly not shocked wouldn't it be because of Marc Jacob's name. As many have mentioned already, his despicable attitude and ignorant personality have always shined through.
That models don't get paid for walking fashion shows is nothing new but that they don't even earn a penny by working side on side with the designer is an unacceptable thing.
Hailey probably got one of the most unthankful jobs as that of working as a fitting model. I remember an interview of Karmen Pedaru talking about her beginning in the fashion business. She started as Stella McCartney's fitting model and later said that it was one of the hardest jobs she has ever had due to the long working hours, short breaks and the continous standing (which made her faint a couple of times). It is far from being as exciting as a fashion show or rewarding as an editorial shoot.
Hailey's reaction looked pretty naive to me and as if she'd downplay the whole situation. Which is most likely because she's just starting to dive into that pseudo dazzling, glamourous fashion world and probably thinks that jobs like that should be taken for granted. And it might be quite a good deal of reputation but definitely does not equal her to get paid nothing.

But what keeps me thinking now; is the new launched Model Alliance going to take action against the case? It is defnitely something that adresses the organisation's purposes and definitely something to debate about.

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05-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneSkipper View Post
^For real, she's been working since 2000. And, she gets paid just for walking his show and Hailey gets trade for working with the atelier for 23 hours almost straight.
No one gets paid to walk the Marc Jacobs show, all the models just get trade.

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05-03-2012
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I don't think its really fair to put all of this on Marc. Marc does it for the same reason everyone else does: its an openly accepted policy in the fashion industry. Its extremely common in editorials and runway.

If people want to fix it, picking on one house isn't the way to do it.

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05-03-2012
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Originally Posted by Gabriel29 View Post
I don't understand, doesn't this violate some sort of 'minimum wage' law in the US?
There are also labor laws as well, stating those under 16 can only work for a certain number of hours on a school night...

Isn't this why the top models often skip New York, save the shows they're doing campaigns for? If I'm not mistaken, Paris actually pays, which I'm sure is at least part of the reason as to why everyone and their mother seems to make an appearance on the catwalk. Interesting...

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05-03-2012
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i don't think anybody is dumping on marc because it's marc.....this is a disgusting practice that's coming to the fore thanks to some naivety of a young woman who just so happened to be talking specifically about marc jacobs. if she were talking about anybody else i would hope we'd still be just as horrified by this.

and i was just thinking about this whole underage thing myself. to me this is the kind of situation that could get the feds involved. in essence working this young woman for 23 hr total with no pay is called child labour!! and somebody please sit that poor girl down with her mother and confront this pathetic agency because they are obviously condoning this and honestly don't have this young girl's best interest at all.


Last edited by Scott; 05-03-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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05-03-2012
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I think most people here are not naive to the fact that "trade" is common practice in the industry-- particularly in NYC because there are no laws that enforce a certain wage for models' work. Just because it's openly acceptable for everyone to do it, does that mean it's right? I suppose that's a question of ethics.

I can understand a new struggling designer exchanging trade for a model's time to walk his show, or even a known policy at Marc Jacobs that girls walk in exchange for trade and the high exposure his shows generate. Fair enough. But for him to use a new girl-- a child, as a look model, where her only exposure is in his studio with his staff for 23 hrs, she should be compensated with an actual wage-- not just trade; it's not only the right thing to do, it's the ethical thing to do. A fairly decent person should know that without being told. And he can lead by example. He's obviously taking advantage of her naivety, and excitement at being in the company of a celebrity.

He's not a struggling designer. Him and his people should be ashamed instead of posting such an arrogant statement as "Models are paid in trade. If they don't want to work w/ us, they don't have to."

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06-03-2012
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I don't think its really fair to put all of this on Marc. Marc does it for the same reason everyone else does: its an openly accepted policy in the fashion industry. Its extremely common in editorials and runway.
But for some reason this practice keeps getting associated with Marc Jacobs. I would not be shocked if there are other major designers in NYC who do it, but I am not assuming that it is the standard operating procedure for the larger designers. Marc Jacobs is owned by LVMH, one of the largest if not the largest fashion conglomerate, Marc Jacobs (the company) has the frigging money to pay its fit models and runway models and there is no way that I am going to deem it unfair because maybe, possibly, kinda sorta there are other designers who do likewise. IMO Marc Jacobs remains despicable and if there is evidence of other major designers engaging in this practice, then name them and I will call them despicable too.

Quote:
If people want to fix it, picking on one house isn't the way to do it.
I beg to differ and thing that it is a very effective way of fixing a problem like this. Marc Jacobs is not going to get fired from Marc Jacobs, but the attention may cause them to change their practices and also lead the CFDA to come up with guidelines, hopefully meaningful ones that will be adhered to.

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06-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masquerade View Post
I don't think its really fair to put all of this on Marc. Marc does it for the same reason everyone else does: its an openly accepted policy in the fashion industry. Its extremely common in editorials and runway.

If people want to fix it, picking on one house isn't the way to do it.

he is a board member of the CFDA. so yes, in my opinion, it is fair.

trying to target all designers at once doesn't seem to work so maybe naming and shaming big houses, who definitely have the funds to be paying their models, is a better approach.

i am not one of these people who think all models should be making tens of thousands. let's be real, like MANY industries it is not a high skill work, and there is more supply of models than demand. but they should at least ALL be paid an hourly rate of at least minimum wage

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06-03-2012
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see i think that's the big issue here....marc jacobs not only has the prestige,but he is a board member of the CFDA.....he has LVMH money coming from the stakes they own in his label and for his work at louis vuitton. the guy is not struggling for money. he can afford to pay his in-house fitting models as well as his catwalk models....probably three times over.

most of the time "trade" practices do occur but in many of these cases these models are well over 18 and very cognizant of their options. i remember distinctly erin o'connor when she was at the height of her career,saying about doing demeulemeester's show preferring to paid with clothes in exchange for money.

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06-03-2012
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But isn't it also a convenient way to get the most beautiful girls to wear your stuff off the runway as well? Seems like a cost-cut and some marketing at the same time. I can't really feel sorry for the models on this one even though I can see the point.

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06-03-2012
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I am not surprised at all. isn't it an honor to wear and work for free for Marc Jacobs ?
Seriously, it's a mystery why so many girl want to become a model : working for free for designers and magazines, being sexually molested by photograpgers and agents. What a dream life !

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06-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola Montès View Post
I am not surprised at all. isn't it an honor to wear and work for free for Marc Jacobs ?
Seriously, it's a mystery why so many girl want to become a model : working for free for designers and magazines, being sexually molested by photograpgers and agents. What a dream life !
Can we not throw that around like it's no big deal? It clouds the separate issue at hand and if thrown around without factual supports, dilutes the issue if and when it is a problem. Additionally, Marc Jacobs may be underpaying (or in this case, not paying at all) his models, but it's not fair to him, unless shown otherwise, to throw those sorts of accusations in this thread.

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