How to Join
the Fashion Spot / the Sidewalk Café / Rumor has it...
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
09-03-2012
  46
windowshopping
 
zhaopian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: this side of paradise
Gender: femme
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by FelipeV View Post
This is what disgusted me about the actitude of people in the fashion industry "if you don't want to work, there's a lot people behind you that would kill for what you doing" Seriously, this can't happen anymore. The models sometimes have to left studies to work and get pay. Money Jacobs, they not eat clothes.

And yes, sometimes (sometimes) this sacrifices have fruits, but you need to consider that the models (specially in Marc J. castings) are almost children. The parents are guilty too, they need to demand more.
please. nobody "has to" do anything. people make choices. in this case models and their parents make the choice that it is worth taking the risk of delaying school and whatever to try modelling, in case they hit the jackpot.

  Reply With Quote
 
09-03-2012
  47
front row
 
FelipeV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Gender: homme
Posts: 219
Yes, it's a choice but why it has to be so hard? This 16/17 girls aren't mature enough to get realize of what they doing and how this can affect their lifes, but i have not idea and probably i'm wrong and they're really know what they're doing. In any case is something easy, you work and you get a fair wage at the moment.

__________________
Blog

Last edited by FelipeV; 09-03-2012 at 11:42 PM.
  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  48
rising star
 
Jasmine04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Gender: femme
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaopian View Post
maybe because the photographer actually makes the photograph happen?

those girls starting out in the industry know that when they do a show for a very big designer and put it on their resume, or walk into a casting wearing designer clothes, people will think more of her ability then if she walked for some non high fashion brand for 10,000 a day. so if the model is set to be a high fashion model and work on getting very high profile and high paying gigs, there are some things she needs to suck in along the way.

why designers prefer to pay in trade than in cash? because it is a business, and if they can do it, they will. everyone is on a budget. even if your past 10 collections have been super successful, you don't know whether the next one will.

no one forces models or anyone else freelancing to do a job. don't compare it to wages, because this is not a job. if models want a stable job, then can go get one. for every model who complains about it, there will be 100 who will be happy to do it.
Modeling is a job. To say it's not a real job implies that's it's just a fun hobby that these girls and women like to do in their free time. But many models put in a lot of hard work and sacrifice with no guarantee that it will pay off in the end. Just because there are models out there willing to work long hours for trade or little money doesn't mean it should be allowed.

Of course businesses are going to try to get away with giving those they employ as little as possible while also asking as much as possible from them. That's why in many other industries labor laws are enforced and they are regulated.

Marc Jacobs is not a small time business owner trying to make ends meet, his company can easily afford to pay a looks model a fair wage, especially considering they were able to do it the season before.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  49
windowshopping
 
zhaopian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: this side of paradise
Gender: femme
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine04 View Post
Modeling is a job. To say it's not a real job implies that's it's just a fun hobby that these girls and women like to do in their free time. But many models put in a lot of hard work and sacrifice with no guarantee that it will pay off in the end. Just because there are models out there willing to work long hours for trade or little money doesn't mean it should be allowed.

Of course businesses are going to try to get away with giving those they employ as little as possible while also asking as much as possible from them. That's why in many other industries labor laws are enforced and they are regulated.

Marc Jacobs is not a small time business owner trying to make ends meet, his company can easily afford to pay a looks model a fair wage, especially considering they were able to do it the season before.
I disagree with that. and I work in this industry and those same rules apply to me. if I am offered a gig that does not pay in cash, I can take it or leave it. if I take it, it is because I have decided that it will somehow contribute to my marketing edge, and also because I know that if I am remotely good at what I do, I will get plenty of paying gigs.

seriously, do you think that anyone who works in an industry where they can potentially (even if they are far from being a top face) make in one day a lot more money than most people make in a month has any right to complain? i don't.

not to mention that it is very unprofessional to accept the terms of a gig and complain about it after...

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  50
clever ain't wise
 
iluvjeisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Gender: femme
Posts: 13,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaopian View Post
maybe because the photographer actually makes the photograph happen?

those girls starting out in the industry know that when they do a show for a very big designer and put it on their resume, or walk into a casting wearing designer clothes, people will think more of her ability then if she walked for some non high fashion brand for 10,000 a day. so if the model is set to be a high fashion model and work on getting very high profile and high paying gigs, there are some things she needs to suck in along the way.

why designers prefer to pay in trade than in cash? because it is a business, and if they can do it, they will. everyone is on a budget. even if your past 10 collections have been super successful, you don't know whether the next one will.

no one forces models or anyone else freelancing to do a job. don't compare it to wages, because this is not a job. if models want a stable job, then can go get one. for every model who complains about it, there will be 100 who will be happy to do it.
There are a lot of people who make the photograph happen. The editor, stylist, make-up artist, photographer and model. The model stands out in that crowd by being paid less. And that is, if you interpret it kindly, because she is the only one who appears in the images and will get an immediate promotion effect from appearing in the image. On the other hand, the huge difference ($300 vs $30 000+) is because modeling is not seen as a proper job. It's not the model who "makes the photo happen", she's just a replacable prop. And that is what devalues the model as a professional.

I mentioned this because I think the feels at Vogue are more glaringly offensive. I mean, I hardly think the other professionals on the shoot are going to settle for $300 for a day's work....whereas being paid in bags/shoes etc that have a very high market value, like at the Marc Jacobs show, seems pretty nice actually. Some of those things are hard to get and will thus generate a pretty penny when being sold on ebay.


Last edited by iluvjeisa; 10-03-2012 at 02:52 AM.
  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  51
rising star
 
Jasmine04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Gender: femme
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaopian View Post
I disagree with that. and I work in this industry and those same rules apply to me. if I am offered a gig that does not pay in cash, I can take it or leave it. if I take it, it is because I have decided that it will somehow contribute to my marketing edge, and also because I know that if I am remotely good at what I do, I will get plenty of paying gigs.

seriously, do you think that anyone who works in an industry where they can potentially (even if they are far from being a top face) make in one day a lot more money than most people make in a month has any right to complain? i don't.

not to mention that it is very unprofessional to accept the terms of a gig and complain about it after...
I don't think anyone is arguing that a model should complain publicly or even to the company about what kind of payment they get from a job, since most are not in a position to do that without it effecting their careers. It should also be pointed out that Hailey wasn't complaining when she was writing about being paid in trade, she was apparently quite happy about the experience overall.

But honestly, I think there are quite a few things a model could could take issue with. Just because you have the potential to make a large amount of money in an industry, it doesn't mean you are going to be able to. It also doesn't make it okay or professional for big brands to not pay you for your work, especially if you're working overtime as a looks model.

Even though a model is technically considered a contingent or freelance worker, she's still working within a hierarchy that puts new, young models closer to the bottom. That means, among other things, that the choice of taking or leaving a job isn't always a real choice for them. Yes, taking a job from a well-respected name within the industry, even if it doesn't pay, can potentially help them get bigger and better jobs. But it doesn't guarantee it, and it also doesn't necessarily give them a livable wage for the time being. It can put them in a very vulnerable position.

Really, there are other issues that many models face in the fashion industry, that makes it not as clear cut as simply not taking a job when it doesn't pay or leaving the profession all together. These issues (e.g. agencies not being forthcoming with payments or adding mysterious charges to a model's account, many of the models being underage, models from poorer countries and the problems they potentially face, exploitation, debt, etc.) are interconnected with each other, which makes the situation that much more complicated.

But the bottom line is this: If you work, you deserve reasonable compensation.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  52
rising star
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Gender: femme
Posts: 115
In response to the above, why can't they criticze and complain about what happens in the industry? i think hailey was complaining but just retracted when she realized how damaging it was for her career...

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  53
fashion insider
 
Chaky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylestalker12 View Post
i think hailey was complaining but just retracted when she realized how damaging it was for her career...
She probably didn't realise her comments would get picked up by a widely read website. It's worth pointing out that the article was written by Jenna Sauers who is on the Board of Directors of the Model Alliance and this case is a prime example of what they are fighting to change.

There is a huge disparity in bargaining power in these situations. The big-name designer has it all; the young, inexperienced model has none. There is the illusion of choice about taking the job but it's not really there. A lot of models at that age are presumably fairly naive. Maybe many younger ones are supported by parents so not getting payment is not as big a deal. But this is still a job and for those trying to be independent and making a career this smacks of exploitation.

There is a question of liquidity. You can't buy a loaf of bread with a designer jacket. I can imagine someone rushing back to their apartment after a job to put their 'trade payments' on ebay.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  54
rising star
 
Jasmine04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Gender: femme
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylestalker12 View Post
In response to the above, why can't they criticze and complain about what happens in the industry? i think hailey was complaining but just retracted when she realized how damaging it was for her career...
I should have been more clear. I think they should be able to complain, but the reality is that many don't because of the potential damage to their career.When a model does speak out about an issue I always think that's awesome, but I don't expect the majority of them to do so. That's why it's good that the Model Alliance has been created to help bring awareness to issues that often don't get enough attention.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  55
front row
 
fee de foret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: enchanted forest
Gender: femme
Posts: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaopian View Post
please. nobody "has to" do anything. people make choices. in this case models and their parents make the choice that it is worth taking the risk of delaying school and whatever to try modelling, in case they hit the jackpot.
but you know, not all of these girls have the privilege of hailey. alot of them speak very little english and aren't doing this to "hit the jackpot" or to be famous, they have a family to support in another country. and how are they supposed to do that with shoes and jackets? marc wouldn't try to pull this kinda stuff with a grown adult..it just re-enforces my belief that young girls have no business modeling. but thats a whole other can of worms.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  56
V.I.P.
 
jun3machina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: along the lines of my mind
Gender: femme
Posts: 7,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by masquerade View Post
I don't think its really fair to put all of this on Marc. Marc does it for the same reason everyone else does: its an openly accepted policy in the fashion industry. Its extremely common in editorials and runway.

If people want to fix it, picking on one house isn't the way to do it.
ITA.

what i find as a sort of icing to this caKE, is the designers pay these people in trade, so basically they end up being walking free advertising even after the fittings and show too..

__________________

www.thegirllovesmj.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  57
tfs star
 
TommyGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Finland
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,614
People who mentioned that paying in trade might not be such a bad thing as it seems at first sight, you`ve got a point there. Let`s say, a model gets shoes, jacket and bag, all Marc Jacobs, they can actually be worth of couple thousand dollars alltogether. So if the model want to sell them, she propably ends up getting more cash for herself than they would pay for a new face.

But I believe this more a matter of principle, each and everyone should be paid in actual money, and therefore use the money as they want. But in this business, nah, these problems will never be entirely solved, it is such a weird power game ruled by such huge egos.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2012
  58
don't look down
 
tigerrouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Béal Feirste
Gender: femme
Posts: 11,666
Like the title of that book by Michael Gross, it's the ugly business of beautiful women...

__________________
You're perfect, yes, it's true. But without me, you're only you.
  Reply With Quote
12-03-2012
  59
rising star
 
jollyvixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Gender: femme
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaopian View Post
please. nobody "has to" do anything. people make choices. in this case models and their parents make the choice that it is worth taking the risk of delaying school and whatever to try modelling, in case they hit the jackpot.
Marc Jacobs doesn't have the right to break NYS child labor laws.

  Reply With Quote
12-03-2012
  60
V.I.P.
 
lucy92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Gender: femme
Posts: 12,070
how are agencies (and the tax authorities) going to get their cut if models are paid "in trade"?

__________________
Large Avatars for Everyone!
Status: Online
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
jacobs, marc, models, pay, work
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. ©2014 All rights reserved.