The Model & Celeb Weight Thread [Read post #1 before posting] #1

[*Bianca*]

Originally Posted by Grunged

But when you convert it to inches, and then you see 21 inch waist then that should automatically click in your head "That's disgusting" or something like that.

Yes, but my point is I'm not going to convert it.

If you're a model fan especially you should know about measurements, I haven't even been into models for that long and I know for a fact that a 21 inch waist is beyond small and extreme.

I really don't care about measurements enough to go and convert them. I'm honestly a fan of models because of their faces. If that makes me less of a "model fan" then so be it.

[iluvjeisa]

Originally Posted by katherine

People put in "beautiful" actors for films and shows these days even if their acting is horrendous (not saying angelina's is, she's one of the few!) but because they're society's definition of gorgeous, they'll sell the movie. Jessica Alba? Hot body! Beautiful! Ka-ching in the box office. It's no different in the modeling realm - years ago the norm changed, beauty = thinness, skinny = beautiful. Agencies want their girls to be thinner because not only is it beautiful, the clothes hang better, make them more sellable, bringing more money to the agencies and designers. It's an industry of extreme *beauty, average is just not accepted.

*protruding collarbone, clavicles that cut glass, legs two miles apart from each other.

This is interesting. Because since it is that way, it follows that everyone who really wants to and has the discipline - can be beautiful. That's not how it seems to have been in the 80s and before that - then, people were simply doomed by their bone structure to be either beautiful, average or ugly.

I'm wondering if - ironically - the thinness/body focus is really a form of "beauty on the inside" - since most people over 20 or so have to strive to be that skinny/fit, it becomes a matter of mind over matter, the discipline and desire determines who is beautiful.

[katherine]

Adding onto Morgane Dubled, I think Michaela Kocianova has a fantastic model's body. Clothes look beautiful on her, and she has a healthy (and attainable by normal standards) body that doesn't make you go or , imo! She glows.

[mkd1187]

Originally Posted by masquerade

I can't believe we are talking about this again.

If you really think people are not influenced by the media and society, than you are very naive. The media is constantly telling women that their bodies are wrong, and airbrushed images of models and celebrities are right. Even logical adults who know these images aren't real cannot escape the pressure they create. This isn't even just about weight, its about breast size, hair color, skin color, wrinkles, etc.

Designers continually create clothing that looks good only on certain, modelesque body types. This isn't anything new. Woman are changing their bodies to fit these ideals, when designers should be changing their designs to fit women's bodies.

We talk on this thread (and on TFS in general) as if we are immune ...

Because we know the names of the models and see them change.

But in all honesty, the real global problem is that the image of beauty portrayed is:

thin = beautiful
white = beautiful
straight hair = beautiful


Of course it sucks, (especially on a racial perspective) but the whole point of any beauty/movie/television etc. industry is based on the unrealistic.


By definition, the whole point of models are to be thinner, prettier (in theory), and unrealistic.


I, like many others, am unhappy with the use of emaciated models.

But why should we expect to see models (as so many have said) to look reflective of the "average women?"

As much as that would help all of our (non-model) self esteem... models unfortunately need to reflect a desirable, usually-unattainable form of "beauty."

We might disagree on what that "beauty" means. But without something that seems beyond our ability to attain.. there would be no famous models.

[katherine]

I don't think models should be average either I just worry about them when they look like walking skeletons. Most of them do not but the ones that do - wouldn't look so bad if they gained about five pounds. In fact, they'd still appear thin but there is a difference with that and emaciated.

[mkd1187]

^ agreed.

[Cola]

Originally Posted by ms-nietzsche

This is actually very true, and not only because it's correct. Throughout history the attractive, ideal female body as held by men has been the one that can produce many healthy children. Even "ideal" the hip-to-waist ratio that's been thrown out there correlates with fertility. That's why it's so odd and wrong that the ideal woman now is 14 years old and looks like a starving holocaust victim

But is that really the case? Are you talking about the ideal of crazy fashion people or of the rest of the population? Because I think the latter would rather idealize a Monica Bellucci instead of a high fashion model .. which is why I think the whole "people get mentally sick these days because the ideal is so sick" thing is just an easy explanation for a complicated issue. People feel comfortable when there are clear definitions of evil and good. (However, youth is definitely idealized, and the 14-year old models might be a result of exxaregating that)
And about the ideal of the fashion world .. well, models are objects, kind of, right? It's not about the model as a person (an Irina L or Agyness D or Kate M is an exception, the person cult around them moved them to celebrity status), it's about the model as a way of making clothes look cool - they look indifferent in that thousand dollar dress they drown in, it's no big deal to them whereas a normal person would go "oh gosh, I'm wearing Balenciaga! So exciting", which suggests all the old clichés about upper class - lofty and a bit jaded in the face of luxury.

(I feel like I wrote this 1000 times already)

[Surfbunny]

Originally Posted by katherine

Adding onto Morgane Dubled, I think Michaela Kocianova has a fantastic model's body. Clothes look beautiful on her, and she has a healthy (and attainable by normal standards) body that doesn't make you go or , imo! She glows.

really?I thought she looked quite bony compared to some other models in the VS show.

[catherinef89]

Originally Posted by Ciyvk

It isn't necessarily the BMIs that decides whether a woman will menstruate. It's the body fat percentage. You can be extremley skinny but still have a substantial amount of fat(skinny-fat) and still menstrate as long as you have the minimum body fat. I guess that's why it's harder for women to lose weight compared to men.

That's not necessarily true, either. Like I said, it's very personal.

[catherinef89]

Originally Posted by Grunged

Smart, independent women aren't being told anything. Naive, self conscious women suffering from low self esteem are the only ones sucked into believing that this is the "ideal" body type. And they are also the only ones who accept this, and support it wholeheartedly without making objections and speaking their thoughts about it. Clothes are not made for a super thin 14 year old girl's body type. They are just modeled by this body type. Some (notice I underlined and darkened that so somebody will not twist it every which way) clothes only look good on that body type but they are not made for that body type.

*Edited*
No woman is "too smart" to feel the effects of sexism.

[catherinef89]

Originally Posted by cestmagique

Ah, I knew I loved this thread. Look, I wasn't trying to piss you off, I'd just appreciate it if everyone (you, me, everyone) could be civil rather than hostile; it makes it much easier to voice opinions. No one needs to go for the throat.

My point was, of course someone with a healthy mindset wouldn't be bothered, but intelligence (book smarts or otherwise) and vulnerability to messed up societal cues are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of highly intelligent anorexics, I'm sure.

Most anorectics are highly intelligent.

[ms-nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Cola

But is that really the case? Are you talking about the ideal of crazy fashion people or of the rest of the population? Because I think the latter would rather idealize a Monica Bellucci instead of a high fashion model .. which is why I think the whole "people get mentally sick these days because the ideal is so sick" thing is just an easy explanation for a complicated issue. People feel comfortable when there are clear definitions of evil and good. (However, youth is definitely idealized, and the 14-year old models might be a result of exxaregating that)
And about the ideal of the fashion world .. well, models are objects, kind of, right? It's not about the model as a person (an Irina L or Agyness D or Kate M is an exception, the person cult around them moved them to celebrity status), it's about the model as a way of making clothes look cool - they look indifferent in that thousand dollar dress they drown in, it's no big deal to them whereas a normal person would go "oh gosh, I'm wearing Balenciaga! So exciting", which suggests all the old clichés about upper class - lofty and a bit jaded in the face of luxury.

(I feel like I wrote this 1000 times already)

I'm not talking about the small moment of time that is now, but the trend that has been since the beginning of mankind when cavemen built and worshipped fertility deity statues. People have had a biological tendency to find fertile looking women attractive for thousands of years, which is why it's so strange that the modeling industry of today advocates for the exact opposite.

I don't think youth is idolized, just thinness. Thinness is more characteristic of youth perhaps, but protruding bones, gaunt faces, and being 6 feet tall, and the edginess Supreme tries to bring to their models definitely are not.

[Cola]

Um, I think you got my question wrong. You stated

That's why it's so odd and wrong that the ideal woman now is 14 years old and looks like a starving holocaust victim

and that made me wonder whether the described ideal woman was the ideal of only the fashion world or also of normal people. Because I think most people who don't really care about fashion do not find the high fashion model look attractive, they're more into the look of .. I don't know, Victoria's Secret and that sqimsuit magazine.

And yes, I do think youth is idealized. People panicking over a grey hair, botoxing out their wrinkles .. in this case however I wouldn't define youth as teenager but rather as maybe a 22-year-old .. and slenderness is probably a part of that (toned and convex-but-slim .. by the way I am still talking about normal people's ideal, those who are into health and stuff instead of decadence).

[ms-nietzsche]

^Apologies, I meant the fashion world

[Cola]

No need to apologise, just a misunderstanding