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17-03-2010
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Why the HELL are some people even thinking of blaming Rie?? She's just someone who raised an important issue, she didn't do anything wrong.

And I can not believe ANYONE has the nerve to defend Terry. The man is a PERVERT. There is no nice word for him.
Sexually oriented photography (and even sexual vulgarity) can be done tastefully and effectively. You don't have to bloody cum on a model's face in order to get a message across that can otherwise be communicated just as effectively in other more tasteful and less crude ways than Richardson's.

There is simply NO excuse for his behavior.

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17-03-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squizree View Post
Why the HELL are some people even thinking of blaming Rie?? She's just someone who raised an important issue, she didn't do anything wrong.

And I can not believe ANYONE has the nerve to defend Terry. The man is a PERVERT. There is no nice word for him.
Sexually oriented photography (and even sexual vulgarity) can be done tastefully and effectively. You don't have to bloody cum on a model's face in order to get a message across that can otherwise be communicated just as effectively in other more tasteful and less crude ways than Richardson's.

There is simply NO excuse for his behavior.
But with this you are limiting how Terry expresses himself. It is his art and it's how he chooses to communicate that message. For Terry, maybe cumming on the model was the most effective way for him to achieve that. If the model consented to it, what is the issue?

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17-03-2010
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^ The issue is 2 things: (a) Having a sexually perverted maniac on the loose and (b) Letting dumbas$ models make decisions by themselves.

Just because the model consented it doesn't make it ok. If a model wants to be involved in such vulgar photography she can go f*ck around as much as she wants in a porn film, or in a brothel. They get paid just as much there, their commission really is rather impressive.

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18-03-2010
  154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reese06 View Post
But with this you are limiting how Terry expresses himself. It is his art and it's how he chooses to communicate that message. For Terry, maybe cumming on the model was the most effective way for him to achieve that. If the model consented to it, what is the issue?
So sexual harassment and bestiality is okay as long as long as it's hidden under the guise of art? Richardson is above the law because he's an "artist"?

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18-03-2010
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^ Honestly ,it's not ok whether the law says so or not.

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18-03-2010
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wow it's anarchy in here.
Richardson is in the wrong industry,Hustler is next door i believe.

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18-03-2010
  157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michyed View Post
So sexual harassment and bestiality is okay as long as long as it's hidden under the guise of art? Richardson is above the law because he's an "artist"?
The point that many of you forget is that Richardson is outspoken about something that does go on behind closed doors in some cases. Do you think he is the only one? Would it be ok if he shot nice photos but only hired girls who would sleep with him....? Chances are nobody would dare taking a shot at him then....

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18-03-2010
  158
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Also, are we not again throwing in two discussions in one?

a) is Terry molesting and abusing his position of power to gain sexual favours of young innocent models? (Yes i know i wrote that a bit specific but you get my point ;D. If so he shall be crucified and burned at the town square (and for legal reasons, read that as being reported and prosecuted by the law =)

b) is what Terry is doing an outspoken artistic expression about how we can percieve pornography and explicit imagery as accepted if the context (a fashion magazine) is different than the usual one (pornographic magazine). And if so, is he doing it right or wrong or whateer.

The debate wether or not he's allowed to break the law in the name of art is not a debate. He's not. As simple as that. Artists need to live within the law as everyone else, and there are several examples of others who have tried that little rule and found it absolute ;D

However, a lot of the posts in this thread is about YOUR perception of what is artistic and what is not. And that is a dangerous slope to go down because it will in the end be based on what the great mass percieves is art. And if that happens, kiss most of fashion and todays art world goodbye. You would not have any of the avante gardé movements, none of the constructivism, abstract expressionists, impressionists, cubists, surrealists, etc. IF the big public were the ones who decided what was ok to call art and what was not. Remember, what YOU think is art, is probably not the same as for example the church pastor down the road thinks (insert any religion of your choise =).

So lets ignore the debate if what he does is art or not, there are many artists out there who are walking very precarious on the edge of taste and trying to be provocative. It is just a discussion that wont work.

NOW... before you go shouting "but he is a filthy pervert" lets go back to the legal issue. IF he is coercing and mistreating models, for artistic purposes or not, he is comitting a crime. Simple as that. Only way to prove this is for models to start coming forward.

He wont be the first NOR the last artist who have tried the "oh but its for art" approach to score some girl. Question is again if the girl has consented to it or not. If she felt threatened and that she would be punished for not doing it, its not consent but force (implied threat is still a threat).

Again just my worthless opinion. Art or not, if he's forcing models he should be prosecuted.


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18-03-2010
  159
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As much as it pains me to say so, as I most certainly don't consider Terry's oeuvre very artistic, there's no arguing about it. Today everything is as long as somebody points at it and declares it to be.

It is up to the indvidual to decide whether they pick up whatever it is that makes things arty, the artistic vibe or something...
You'll find stuff like Terry's at your local sex shop. And they call it porn there and they're all content with that.
Richard Prince takes pictures of Marlboro campaigns. I love it.
Today there's a spot for every messed-up thing in art, and I think that's a great development. I just stay away from artistic porn or pornographic art, whatever you want to call it.

I'm annoyed with him not staying in his spot, but that people in an industry for women think it's a great idea to publish him in magazines that portray a very different kind of woman (except maybe VP) from the one he depicts. Like xerq said, if he wants to publish, I recommend Hustler.

And of course the legal issues. I'm still waiting for the models to stand up. Get it out.

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Last edited by irulan; 18-03-2010 at 04:30 AM.
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18-03-2010
  160
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At the end of the day - the photos Terry takes aren't illegal. The way he gets them? Well, reading the article about Jamie, and Rie's words, it definitely sounds like it's leaning towards sexual harassment to me.

Quote:
Sexual harassment is intimidation, bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors.
wikipedia

Whether a nude shoot turns to harassment or not, comes down to how it makes the model feel. Like Jamie said - she'd posed nude many times, and always felt fine about it. With Terry, he made her feel gross and ashamed - wishing she'd never done it. That is not a healthy working environment Terry's created there for her. In fact, with the way his assistants were cheering her on and were quick to hand her a towel, intention comes into play too...did he ask her to come back for a photoshoot while thinking in the back of his mind he'd try and get her to perform sexual acts?

It's easy to say if a model didn't like it, she should just walk out or say no. It's not as black and white as that, especially not when the photographer is as famous and influential as Terry - of course that's gonna make girls afraid to say no! There is no equality between model and photographer (the exceptions being perhaps when the model/celeb is as famous or more famous than Terry), and he's taking advantage of that. How is Jamie's story any different from your usual boss-coming-on-to-young-secretary sexual harassment story?

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18-03-2010
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Nothingless. And that pretty much sums it all up ;D

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18-03-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michyed View Post
It could easily fall under the category of sexual harassment. I just showed this entire thread to a friend who received his PhD in Law a while ago.
Okay, so I guess she has a case!

Quote:
^ The issue is 2 things: (a) Having a sexually perverted maniac on the loose and (b) Letting dumbas$ models make decisions by themselves.

Just because the model consented it doesn't make it ok. If a model wants to be involved in such vulgar photography she can go f*ck around as much as she wants in a porn film, or in a brothel. They get paid just as much there, their commission really is rather impressive.
^^ I really cannot tell whether you're joking or not?

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Honestly ,it's not ok whether the law says so or not.
The point of having laws is so we can't persecute each other simply because of our opinions of them.

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18-03-2010
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I have to agree that his behaviour with models is really inappropriate. He creeps me out

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18-03-2010
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More models have been coming foward through Jezebel.com. Everyone is doing so anonymously for fear of being blacklisted.

More models come foward with allegations against Fashion Photographer

I found this excerpt interesting for people who think everyone is a willing participant in his shoots and that he doesn't abuse his power at all.

Quote:
We also heard from a woman who is friends with a stylist who used to work with Richardson. "She quit because of having to watch him sexually harrassing/abusing two (naked) teenage Eastern European models who didn't speak English — she didn't speak up and was so ashamed I don't think she did anymore styling for quite a while afterwards."

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18-03-2010
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More people have come forward with stories of questionable behaviour on Jezebel:

http://jezebel.com/5495699/exclusive...n-photographer

Quote:
I was a model in the late 90s in London, and I was booked on a Terry Richardson job for Arena Homme Plus. The shoot was at an amusement park, and I would estimate that there were 30 models in total [...] and we were told that all of us would be given an opportunity to shoot a cover try. Being familiar with Mr. Richardson's.....peccadillos, many of the models were eager to please; pleasing in this instance consisted primarily of pulling down pants, pulling up skirts, losing blouses, and a bit of finger sucking thrown in for good measure. It seemed painfully clear to me that the phantom lure of a cover try was sufficient reason for a handful of young women with waning career prospects to humiliate themselves in front of each other while Terry Richardson giggled, panted, said "That's hot," and pushed them further. During lunch, I approached him and asked him if he had any moral quandaries about exploiting the sad dreams of models who hadn't yet made it and probably never would. I asked him if he realized that they were enacting what they believed were his expectations and fantasies in order to gain his favor and hence gain a cover or a future booking. "I don't really think about that stuff," he told me. "I guess you're smarter than me."
Quote:
We also heard from a woman who is friends with a stylist who used to work with Richardson. "She quit because of having to watch him sexually harrassing/abusing two (naked) teenage Eastern European models who didn't speak English — she didn't speak up and was so ashamed I don't think she did anymore styling for quite a while afterwards."
Quote:
One woman in the industry said, "People should also be asking Terry why he doesn't shoot black girls." It's true that Richardson's extensive fashion work features almost exclusively white models. In fact, I struggled to find this single example of Richardson using a black model for a fashion story.

The following story comes from the only source who wrote to me from an anonymous e-mail address, and who has not responded to my follow-up questions. Does this cast doubt on her allegations? It's for you to decide. I present her story here because even if it cannot be verified, it is still, I believe, worth hearing. The writer says she was 19 at the time of her Richardson shoot, which was two years ago. She took a gig she understood to be "shooting artful nudes" because she'd lost her coffee shop job at and needed the income:

He first asked me to play with myself, and just made really creepy demands.
He said it wasn't pornish because he was shooting still shots, and when I said that I felt like he was seeing if I was just dumb, he handed me the camera and said, "Fine you should [shoot] me playing with myself."
I mean his assistants were like, "Do you think all these celebrities would take pictures with him if it was porn?"
Then he said to take pictures of him touching me.
Eventually, he had me go down on him and took pictures of him coming on my face, which I had never done before, and when I went to the bathroom to clean up I could hear him and an assistant joking about it which is when I decided to never tell anyone.
Quote:
My "friend" looked at me and actually said, "It's not who you know, it's who you blow!" His friend walked me over to this nearly invisible door to the backstage where the real party was going on. I slowly opened it and walked in. The entire room STOPPED and stared at me. That immediately made me uncomfortable. In one corner there was a literal pile of SG bras and panties and the other was a small table with model release forms. Some stranger immediately grabbed me and whisked me over to the panties pile meanwhile, another person came over to me and shoved a model release form in my face. They had no interest in seeing my I.D. or even asking me any questions. I was being pushed towards the front of the line to go shoot with their panties and a blank model release form in my hands. I hadn't even had time time get undressed to put them on.
I saw him shooting some obviously inebriated chick straddling a full naked erect guy with her SG panties pulled over to the side one hand on the camera; the other hand grabbing his **** over his pants. I'm like HOLY ****! I immediately backed away, ran through a bunch of drunk women, confused business people, and out the door like I had just had the worst nightmare imaginable.
[...]To this day, I think it was one of the best decisions I've ever made.

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