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10-10-2006
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I really feel I cannot explain myself properly...I hope yo understood what I meant.

So, I was meaning that teenagers do not know what it's like to live on your own and take full responsibility of yourself. What I tried to say was that, many people seem to say " nothing bad has ever happened to you before you are an adult, as a teenager you have nothing to worry about", but I don't agree with that at all. And I'm meaning "mental" things here, not the actual "living", which is going to be hard and of which I cannot know anything about since I live at home with a caring mom.

Hope you understand It's getting really late and it shows in my posts.

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Last edited by Whitelinen; 10-10-2006 at 02:24 PM.
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10-10-2006
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^Yeah...I get what you mean. There's no way at 16 you're 'mature' enough unless you've actually gone out, lived by yourself, got your own job, not getting money or support from anyone, then you're 'mature' enough.

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10-10-2006
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Quote:
I don't think anyone here can judge as she is Maori (native New Zealander) and their culture is very different. In Maori culture, 16 is not considered particularly young to have children.
That's a stupid argument. So just because it's part of the 'culture' then its 'okay'? Not everything about a culture is necessarily good. What if a guy beats his wife, is it justified if he says, "In my culture the husband has the right to beat his wife."?

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10-10-2006
  109
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^It's not as if we're talking about female genital mutilation, here! As I've said, my own mother was married with a baby at sixteen. Culturally, I believe this was the norm for most of humanity when our lifespans were only around 40 years and the concept of family was much larger than mum, dad, and kids. I'm only a couple generations off the farm, the fief, and the reservation myself, and yes, norms have changed, but this is hardly the life-ending event some here make it seem.

My sister, who also had her first child at 16, was delighted to have the kids out of the house by the time she was in her early 40's--and by the time her children were in school, she had the opportunity to finish her own post-secondary education.

There's actually proven health benefits to having your first children younger--such as reduced risk of breast cancer:
Quote:

The younger a woman has her first child, the lower her risk of developing breast cancer during her lifetime.
A woman who has her first child after the age of 35 has approximately twice the risk of developing breast cancer as a woman who has a child before age 20.
A woman who has her first child around age 30 has approximately the same lifetime risk of developing breast cancer as a woman who has never given birth.
Having more than one child decreases a woman’s chances of developing breast cancer. In particular, having more than one child at a younger age decreases a woman’s chances of developing breast cancer during her lifetime.
Although not fully understood, research suggests that pre-eclampsia, a pathologic condition that sometimes develops during pregnancy, is associated with a decrease in breast cancer risk in the offspring, and there is some evidence of a protective effect for the mother.
After pregnancy, breastfeeding for a long period of time (for example, a year or longer) further reduces breast cancer risk by a small amount.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...Risk/pregnancy
Cultures change, mores change, but women have been having babies at this age since forever. Judging my own mother's actions would make my own existence impossible! So I can hardly judge Keisha!

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Last edited by mellowdrama; 10-10-2006 at 05:22 PM.
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10-10-2006
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^^ you are right its only in modern times people had kids later .. before the last hundred years or so girls were married at 14 (when they left school or what ever .. this is when they were seen as an adult) then off to have kids.

I mean aparently mother mary was only 12 or 13

also why would girls have periods if tehy were biologically ment to start having kids, that prooves they are physically ready to have them.

Quote:
^It's not as if we're talking about female genital mutilation, here! As I've said, my own mother was married with a baby at sixteen. Culturally, I believe this was the norm for most of humanity when our lifespans were only around 40 years and the concept of family was much larger than mum, dad, and kids. I'm only a couple generations off the farm, the fief, and the reservation myself, and yes, norms have changed, but this is hardly the life-ending event some here make it seem.
I agree .. my aunty and her daughter had kids at 15 or 16 each and they were fine mothersas they had the support of a loving family around them.
In fact thinking about it quite alot of my family have had kids young.

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10-10-2006
  111
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My aunt had my cousin at fifteen, who had her first child at sixteen. While they are a happy and loving family, both of their marriages to the fathers of their children ended in divorce, both had two kids before eighteen, and neither really got the chance to discover themselves and who they really are.

Every year I look back and think about how immature I used to be... and how back then I thought I knew more than everybody else. That's why I try my hardest now not to make rash decisions.

Keisha will probably make a fine mother, she seems to be pleased with her situation. I'm sure the baby is unplanned but not unwanted.

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10-10-2006
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Oh, and people tend ot say that her career is over. These people seem to forget that she has the same resources as a lot of older actors- she can hire nannys, have her mom or her boyfriend babysit. I doubt that the baby will ruin her chances to find work either. At the most it will make a director a bit hesitant to hire her, but if she can do one movie without missing too much work because of her baby, then she'll be fine.

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10-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiamaria
^^ you are right its only in modern times people had kids later .. before the last hundred years or so girls were married at 14 (when they left school or what ever .. this is when they were seen as an adult) then off to have kids.

I mean aparently mother mary was only 12 or 13

also why would girls have periods if tehy were biologically ment to start having kids, that prooves they are physically ready to have them.

Are you serious??!!

You mean to tell me that you think just because women have menstruation cycles at a young age, we are pre-determined to get pregnant at a younger age?

Just because you are physically ready to give birth dosen't mean you should! I mean, come on! There was a case of a 3 year old in Brazil, and a 4 year old in China who became pregnant due to rape, so what, is it right that they became mothers so young? Children who can't even wipe their butts and have to have their food cut up?!?

Menstruation is only caused when you do not get pregnant! It's simply a sign that you did not become pregnant. Also, it is possible to become pregnant if you don't have a period.

Oh and also, (not directed to your post), the reason why women used to have kids so young was because the average person did not live as long. Vaccines and medicines were unheard of. No one's saying to have your first child at 60 for cripes sake. Now people are just fishing for stuff..

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Last edited by fashionicon; 10-10-2006 at 07:27 PM.
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10-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLinen
Now I think your being quite rough. I'm fifteen, and I don't think I'm smart. The opposite. I'm ashamed of my age. While I am at times maybe a little bit more mature than some of my peers (ie my world does not revolve around makeup-boys-The OC-drinking, I do not enjoy dumb giggling...), I do think I have a lot to learn.

I lived three weeks on my own abroad last summer. I'm not saying it was easy, but the way it was harder was more "physical"; bills, place to stay for a night, eating, money...not that much "mental". Still, it brought freedom, which was better than the "teen life".

But if my life is going to be even harder than it is now when I'm adult, then thank you very much but I'd rather shoot myself. I don't think my life can be anymore complex than it is right now (I cannot trust my mind, I'm pondering whether to kill myself or not). Maybe even this is only teen-angst, but it is complex as hell.

Have to say, that being a 20-something does not mean you're mature at all. Judging from the people that age around me, there's nothing else in their life except booze and sex, sometimes studying.
Be ready then - it DOES get harder. A lot harder. I've been a teenager as well - we all have - and I know how painful it is and how life at times seems a lot like a dead end street. But with everything that happens when you come of age life gets more complex - in ways that a teenager can't understand (again, this comes from personal experience).

As for the 20-somethings that have nothing else in life except for booze and sex, they've probably been like that since they were teenagers. They may be less mature but it doesn't mean their life is not hard.

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10-10-2006
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Quote:
^^ you are right its only in modern times people had kids later .. before the last hundred years or so girls were married at 14 (when they left school or what ever .. this is when they were seen as an adult) then off to have kids.

I mean aparently mother mary was only 12 or 13

also why would girls have periods if tehy were biologically ment to start having kids, that prooves they are physically ready to have them.
Yeah...and for the past hundreds of years, those 14-year old girls had no lives except to give birth to more kids and be slave to their husbands.

The existence of Mother Mary can be debated.

Biologically and physically DOES NOT MEAN psychologically or emotionally. Raising a kid is probably the biggest task and most time-consuming effort in the world. Just because you're able to give birth to one doesn't mean you're able to raise him/her properly.

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11-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemova
Be ready then - it DOES get harder. A lot harder. I've been a teenager as well - we all have - and I know how painful it is and how life at times seems a lot like a dead end street. But with everything that happens when you come of age life gets more complex - in ways that a teenager can't understand (again, this comes from personal experience).

As for the 20-somethings that have nothing else in life except for booze and sex, they've probably been like that since they were teenagers. They may be less mature but it doesn't mean their life is not hard.
So, if I'm depressed (clinically, not only "teen angst", or "developing"), does even that get worse when I grow up, have I not experienced anything hard or complex in my life? That was what I was after. Was it going to be harder in the "mental" side to my friend who hanged herself last spring, or to my friend who's currently locked up at a hospital because of depression? Weren't / aren't their lives complex beyond their age? Is it going to get "mentally" more complex to her too?

Of course it is hard to take responsibility of yourself and make a living, teenagers are not ready to do that and we will get a lot of difficult problems while young adults. Life will be harder than some know-it-alls think.

I really feel nobody's getting my point, but I don't know how to make it more clear...of course you rlife will be harder and more complex when you're an adult, but who's to say it isn't complex already to some of us? My point was that cannot life be complex enough to teenagers too? Maybe I'm wrong, but what is the difference between a teenager committing suicide and an adult committing suicide? Is it somehow not so serious to be a teen and commit a suicide than to be an adult with "real" problems to commit a suicide?

I'm only trying to state that I disagree with adults saying teenagers cannot have real, complex problems or that teenagers lead a life of fairy castles.

But I do agree (and have agreed from my first post til this) that a teenager cannot survive on her/his own, that we are not ready for that yet.

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Last edited by Whitelinen; 11-10-2006 at 12:29 AM.
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11-10-2006
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^Forgot to add, that I do think that when you're adult you're life gets also "emotionally" more complicated. Teenagers aren't mature enough to go through problems like that you will have in ie relationships when you're older.

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11-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLinen
So, if I'm depressed (clinically, not only "teen angst", or "developing"), does even that get worse when I grow up, have I not experienced anything hard or complex in my life? That was what I was after. Was it going to be harder in the "mental" side to my friend who hanged herself last spring, or to my friend who's currently locked up at a hospital because of depression? Weren't / aren't their lives complex beyond their age? Is it going to get "mentally" more complex to her too?

Of course it is hard to take responsibility of yourself and make a living, teenagers are not ready to do that and we will get a lot of difficult problems while young adults. Life will be harder than some know-it-alls think.

I really feel nobody's getting my point, but I don't know how to make it more clear...of course you rlife will be harder and more complex when you're an adult, but who's to say it isn't complex already to some of us? My point was that cannot life be complex enough to teenagers too? Maybe I'm wrong, but what is the difference between a teenager committing suicide and an adult committing suicide? Is it somehow not so serious to be a teen and commit a suicide than to be an adult with "real" problems to commit a suicide?

I'm only trying to state that I disagree with adults saying teenagers cannot have real, complex problems or that teenagers lead a life of fairy castles.

But I do agree (and have agreed from my first post til this) that a teenager cannot survive on her/his own, that we are not ready for that yet.
Teenagers commiting suicide is a terrible, sad thing. The difference between adults and teenagers is that the latter haven't developed completely in terms of emotions. I have some of the same issues in my life than I had when I was 16 - the difference between now and then is that now I can handle these things without desperation. Teenagers have problems, of course, but when we're adults we don't have a safety net to catch our fall. Sure there are teenagers who lack that too and their life sucks but when they grow up there will be a whole load of new issues to deal with. And from personal experience I can tell you that depression hurt a lot more when I was younger but it almost destroyed me as a young adult - it's bad either way.

Life is tough anyway we look at it. It gets tougher with age, but we are all grabbing the bull by the horn from day one. It's unfair to say that some problems are worse than others - but it's safe to say that more problems will show up as we grow up. Just don't lose hope on yourself - life gets harder but in many ways it also gets better. There is light at the end of tunnel, trust me.

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Last edited by Nemova; 11-10-2006 at 11:09 AM.
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11-10-2006
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Please don't feel that way sweetie. I know I don't know you, but you can pm me anytime if you need to talk to someone. I hate to hear someone so young feeling this way.......you are too nice of a person!
Thank you for the pm's btw!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLinen
No, no, I wasn't meaning that. I do agree that it is harder to live by your own etc, especially if you're still studying. It is, you have to take a lot of responsibility and it's very stressing. But mentally (not sure if I'm using the right word, English is not my first language), I feel teen age is hell. I do have problems that are not normal, but if it's getting worse on the "mental" side too when you're an adult, then I don't get the point of living to get there. I don't see a point in living right now, so I do think I do have some kind of feeling about how hard life can be, maybe not in the actual "living" side (economy etc) but otherwise. It's not fairytales and pink dresses in my life, I've been pretty broken. I'm not saying I know all, since I definetily do not know, and there is definetily lots of growing to do before I'm "big" but it's not that innocent some think. Maybe your youth was that innocent.
Is adult life worse in the "mental side" too? I'd really like to know.

Hah, I sound like some emo!

I'm not commenting on the teen mother issue though. I don't have an well-formed opinion about that. But if I'd get pregnant at this age or in couple months time when I'm going to be 16, I'd do an abortion and not even think about it. There is no way I could raise a child at this age. But I'm only speaking about myself here.

And thanks for the sweet comments, I'll try to remember them

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12-10-2006
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Quote:
There was a case of a 3 year old in Brazil, and a 4 year old in China who became pregnant due to rape, so what, is it right that they became mothers so young?
Oh my God... that is pretty much impossible. It'll kill their tiny little bodies at that age. I hate rapists... why do they have to hurt the kids like that??

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