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23-06-2010
  196
V.I.P.
 
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For the people, who couldn't find the magazine on newsstands and wants to buy it online, you can order it here & here.

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23-06-2010
  197
tfs star
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mteb123 View Post
Katie Grand needs to realise that those very people on fashionspot are some of the people who actually buy her magazines, without them she wouldn't have a magazine, l find her comment insulting!!
what i find disturbing is how this whole discussion turned into 'critics versus masses' contradiction stating that consumer is the one (and only?) who has the power to influence things and to judge things. i don't really think this is true.
personally i don't find anything insulting about ms Grand's comment. even more so i don't think she said anything bad about TFS per se. let's admit it: there are amazing creative and knowledgeable people who are experienced as much as opinionated about things and do have enough knowledge and background in fashion to articulate their point of view. but then you have just as much (or i reckon, even more) members who are just the flowers of web democracy and add quite little to the general conversation that is taking place here. i mean, how many times have you met the comments like 'omg!', 'omfg!' and my very favorite 'i don't hate this' without any reasonable explanation or even any attempt to form one. what we're discussing here is not about elitism or being snobbish or taking away consumers' right to voice their opinion (at the end of the day they make their decision by spending cash on the titles, or not spending it). i think the general idea of ms Grand is this very important problem of our web 2.0 generation when everyone is being a critic and is given right to make judgments. there's nothing wrong about it and you can't simply take this away from people, but what stands behind these opinions most of the time?
don't think i can explain this accurately, but from my point of view, there would be no difference between a random TFS'er and ms Coryn or ms Menkes if they three had approximately the same level of knowledge and insider experience and, maybe, the same amount of responsibility to back up their comments. not that only Horyn's and Menkes'es of the world must be heard, but it's kind of pathetic to diminish their voice.
cause frankly, how long does it take to type 'it su*ks' in the Magazines spread? and how much of a responsibility is there behind such an 'opinion'?

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23-06-2010
  198
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I understand and agree with every point of view here, but to me the photographer and the model are the most important parts of an editorial! And if this Industrie magazine was only about stylists and some interviews with the inside people that we never see, nobody would ever take a look at this publication! Why did they put 3 top models inside? To sell the magazine of course! because I will buy the magazine and will tear it up the moment i get home...the only pages that will stay will be the 3 editorials and nothing else!
Sure those people are creative and talented and it is about clothes, but those people are putting too much importance in it all! Take the work of Peter Lindbergh or Steven meisel...they can work without stylists...to me stylists are the people who do the "dirty" job with going around, finding the right clothes, doing the fittings...things that the real artists will not do...they just say yes or no! And they take their photos....Sure they try to show the clothes, but tell me how many times we see nothing from the clothes on the photo...or the shoes...not that i ever cared...but for the photographers the clothes are not important at all!!! They try to create a beautiful image with a beautiful model...the rest is just the neccessary part of the game and without it the whole circus would not be possible!
And the darling Katie should aknowledge all those people expressing opinions, cause we are those who buy their dream and the clothes and the magazines! Cause without us, this industry will be dead!!!
Sure we all have different reasons for buying a magazine, but that's why this a forum and we can freely(well not always) express our opinions and points of view
And by the way the Lara/Daria editorial needed no styling)lol...as you can see people are loving it and it does not show even one piece of clothing!!! Just pure natural beauty and excellent photography! This is what we need! No critics, products or other sort of sh...it. Just beauty delivered by the best!!!

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24-06-2010
  199
don't look down
 
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Speaking generally, I think it's easy to get negative about tfs, and what we can gain from it.

Because it's a community of people, a large part of the communication seen on this site will be for social purposes. We won't be seeing huge numbers of posts that are academic displays of thought, designed to educate the 'readership'. That sort of behaviour isn't conducive to being part of a group - and this site acts as a hub of friendship and civil interaction, with many ways of showing our appreciation for each other. So I'm not surprised that we see so many posts that don't seem to 'say much' in terms of hard-argued opinion. It's not stupidity that causes it, it happens because it's a natural way for people to interact with each other on this site.

And while you might not learn something deeply intellectual from that style of interaction, that does not mean you learn nothing at all about people, and their behaviour and tastes. You get to see moods and manias and how people echo each other. I find that fascinating.

Another aspect of 'three word replies' is that not everyone has the skill to express themselves fluently in the written word - and in English. Should it mean they should stop expressing themselves at all? I'd have problems writing more than three words in reply to a post on a Chinese-language forum, but it wouldn't be for lack of thought about the topic. And that's what I bear in mind when I'm reading threads and see such replies.

Considering that many people don't bother to write to magazines with their thoughts, forums are a useful halfway house for finding out some general sentiments - especially from those who didn't purchase the magazine. A response of a few words on a website is better than no feedback at all, because at least it's some sort of reaction.

Unless someone is deliberately setting out to make some super-niche publication, an editorial team will want to produce something that achieves healthy sales and shows a good increase over time. Some anonymous person who is negative about an issue on a website today, is nothing less than a potential purchaser of your next issue tomorrow. The exciting challenge is finding ways to convert them. Any signal, any sign, is information and power.

When you find a way to take into account what happens at tfs and why, I think it becomes clear that there's no point being disappointed or dismissive about the site, when it's so rich in so many ways.

Is it a problem that everyone gets to be a critic and has the right to make judgements? What's the realistic alternative - that everyone should become self-aware and realise that because they can't explain themselves to suit somebody else's standards, they should therefore shut up until they've studied enough to make their posts acceptable? If that were the case, we would all be disqualified from speaking.

And surely the most persuasive point in favour of the 'short reply' is that you'd be getting a lot more posts like this instead.

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24-06-2010
  200
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tigerrouge it's always a pleasure ... a very great pleasure to read u're comments

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25-06-2010
  201
clever ain't wise
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustABoy View Post
^ I don't, particularly. Obviously as a member of the fashion spot I am interested in reading what the members here write and have to say. But I absolutely agree that at the end of the day, I would take the opinion of someone who had worked as a critic for years and years more seriously than I would the opinions of the members here. Anyone can join TFS and trash on American Vogue or their least favorite model; not everyone can work their way up the ladder and become the main fashion critic at the NYT. Respecting that position and the experience it stands for makes sense in my mind, even if you disagree with what Horyn says. Even if you don't respect Horyn more, you might admit that hers is a different kind of opinion--anyone, young or old, ignorant or educated, can join TFS (or apply to join it, at least), and the ease of gaining membership here means that the value of the opinions offered here decreases comparatively.
Yes, but frequently you will find that people get to a certain position based on other merits than those you would like.

In general, it's preferable to listen to what someone says rather than who says it. That, however, is not what makes you climb up the ladder. Obviously, it's more important to kick down and suck up in order to make a place for yourself in a competetive hierarchy. Personally I find the notion that you should ignore those who don't participate in the rat race because it doesn't benefit your career rather silly. It's something I would expect from the less talented Vogue staff.

Again, it makes sense if you want to reach the most prestigious positions, but if you are interested in fashion and art itself....I don't really see why you should look only to WHO says something....

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25-06-2010
  202
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^ I don't completely disagree with your suggestion that we focus on what someone says rather than who is doing the talking, but I do find it troubling because you say 'rather', as if we had to pick between one or the other, and then later say 'only', again as if these were two mutually exclusive endeavors. You can definitely grasp the substance of what someone says without noticing what position they occupy in life--but those analyses that take the latter facts into account are, in my opinion, more interesting.

Your dismissal of the inherent value of critics' opinions because they are in a competitive hierarchy is in fact such an argument. If I'm reading you correctly, your point centers on who critics are (people who have to write for a living, and compete with others who also want to do this) and how it might influence what they say. It's an interesting point, but in the process of making it you seem to have done exactly the opposite of what you suggest is preferable. No matter -- again, I find such arguments more interesting than those that would place all commenters on equal footing (after all, all the commenters aren't on equal footing.).

It's easy to find counterexamples (thank you berlinrocks) where members offer incredibly insightful comments (I think the most interesting ones i've read tend to be from those who actually know about clothing construction in the Designers and Collections forum), but suggesting that it's only a matter of sorting out the riffraff from the valuable insights is not really a good counterargument. In suggesting we sort through it, you're acknowledging what Katie Grand argues--which is that there is riffraff and wading through it to find the best posts might not be worth the trouble for everyone (though you and I might take the time to do so).

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25-06-2010
  203
clever ain't wise
 
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^No, of course, some people have an easier time reading and sorting information than others. And, yes, more time on their hands.

No, you are wrong. I am not saying the same thing as Katie Grand. She is saying Cathy Horyn's opinion matters because Ms. Horyn writes for the number one liberal publication. It is Horyn's position and her many years in the business that warrants this claim. I am saying that some posts are better than others and the task is to weed out the good from the bad. I would even go so far as saying that having your favourite tFS members whose posts you read would be different as well....because then you are not basing your opinion on prestige, but on the collected wealth of what they have written.


Last edited by iluvjeisa; 25-06-2010 at 04:54 PM.
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30-06-2010
  204
windowshopping
 
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The Allure of Louboutin is Nadine Strittmatter
The Allure of Louboutin
Model: Nadine Strittmatter
Ph: Camilla Akrans
Styling: Sissy Vian

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01-07-2010
  205
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Is the editorial with Nadine in that same 1st issue of Industrie? This is great news!

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02-08-2010
  206
windowshopping
 
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Mmm... I'd love to write for this

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09-08-2010
  207
V.I.P.
 
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^ I know right? Im liking this mag a lot

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09-08-2010
  208
Blood On The Leaves
 
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How many issues are going to be released per year?

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09-08-2010
  209
Some Like It Hot
 
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^ 2, its going to be Bi-Annual.

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09-08-2010
  210
Blood On The Leaves
 
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So the next issue comes out in November (if current issue came out in May)?

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