[jmrmartinho]

i love how Vogue Italia can cause always controversy

[rubyshimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thankyouhon I also realized something else about the main editorial that bothered me. Putting all the race/class issues aside, it doesn't even seem as if Meisel did any research for this. It's like he googled the most outlandish pics of black hair styles (as we can see by the side by side comparisons), threw in stereotypes about malt liquor, weaves and single mothers and called it a day. That's just lazy. He didn't treat the style with any respect whatsoever. Also, I would not blame Joan for working on this. It would be career suicide to say no to one of the top photographers in the industry. Models of color get very few opportunities and I don't blame her for taking it. Also the fact that she is not American, she may have been somewhat ignorant of what the implications were.

I agree about Joan. (And someone said she isn't american. She is american, she's from new york and is puerto rican, and puerto ricans are american citizens.)
But Pat McGrath also worked on this for makeup. She could've said no. It wouldn't have been career suicide for her. I've totally lost respect for her for her involvement with this mess.

[thankyouhon]

^You are right, I thought she wasn't from America for some reason but I guess that's not the case.

Yeah, I definitely lost respect for the whole creative team involved in this. How no one could find it wrong, boggles my mind.

[MyNameIs]

I hope Meisel wasn't trying to 'please' people with this ed, because if his intention is to please, he should have left alone. There was no way that this type of editorial was ever not going to draw controversy.

I think this editorial very obviously draws 'inspiration' from a predominantly black sub-culture. At least in the US. Maybe some Latino too. Thus, trying to argue that this is somehow representing of cross-racial or cross-cultural lines seems a stretch to me.

With that said, I don't see how this editorial is racist. I don't understand why this sub-culture should be somehow 'off limits' for fashion editorials. One could probably find countless and countless editorials of plenty of other sub-cultures. From different ethnic groups to different national groups (how many times have we seen an ed about Slavic/Russian women wearing kerchiefs?) to different social groups (that soccer wives ed comes to mind), to, yes, racial groups (plenty of red-neck editorials). Yeah, in one sense it's stereotyping, in another sense it's just showcasing drawing attention a sub-culture. Or drawing inspiration from that subculture. Why is it necessarily bad? Should fashion always portray colorless/classless/cultureless "Caroline Trentini" jumping against a gray/white background?

So is the problem that it's not glorified or chic-ified enough? I dare anyone say that these images have no basis in reality, because as been proved by side by side comparisons, they're basically copied off from the real world. So, what's the problem then? If some don't think this style looks good or works, well there are people who think it does look good. Maybe that's the point of showing all these sub-culture, it's to expose people to things they otherwise wouldn't see or seek out. Yeah, sometimes it may not be up to our personal taste or standards, but that's just life. I don't really see Meisel trying to put anyone down here personally.

[StoneSkipper]

MyNameIs, you said exactly everything I wanted to say. Although the controversy was definetely wanted, I highly doubt that powerful people like Franca Sozzani and Steven Meisel take a whole day to sit around and try to find ways to demean the black community. There are real people like that in real life, and I highly doubt that they chose to protray this community because of the race factor. They wanted to demean and mock this type of dressing, not the race itself. It's classist, much more than racist.

But then again, I'm not black, nor American, so my opinion and my points are probably worthless, void and invalid.

[Rotex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIs I hope Meisel wasn't trying to 'please' people with this ed, because if his intention is to please, he should have left alone. There was no way that this type of editorial was ever not going to draw controversy. I think this editorial very obviously draws 'inspiration' from a predominantly black sub-culture. At least in the US. Maybe some Latino too. Thus, trying to argue that this is somehow representing of cross-racial or cross-cultural lines seems a stretch to me. With that said, I don't see how this editorial is racist. I don't understand why this sub-culture should be somehow 'off limits' for fashion editorials. One could probably find countless and countless editorials of plenty of other sub-cultures. From different ethnic groups to different national groups (how many times have we seen an ed about Slavic/Russian women wearing kerchiefs?) to different social groups (that soccer wives ed comes to mind), to, yes, racial groups (plenty of red-neck editorials). Yeah, in one sense it's stereotyping, in another sense it's just showcasing drawing attention a sub-culture. Or drawing inspiration from that subculture. Why is it necessarily bad? Should fashion always portray colorless/classless/cultureless "Caroline Trentini" jumping against a gray/white background? So is the problem that it's not glorified or chic-ified enough? I dare anyone say that these images have no basis in reality, because as been proved by side by side comparisons, they're basically copied off from the real world. So, what's the problem then? If some don't think this style looks good or works, well there are people who think it does look good. Maybe that's the point of showing all these sub-culture, it's to expose people to things they otherwise wouldn't see or seek out. Yeah, sometimes it may not be up to our personal taste or standards, but that's just life. I don't really see Meisel trying to put anyone down here personally.

I agree . It's not like (in my opinion) this was to mock the culture, I think it was just to portray it. we can't keep seeing the same themed editorials in magazines.

[tigerrouge]

Depending on your background, these things do touch you in different ways. The most ignorant thing I ever saw in a fashion magazine wouldn't be noticed by most of its readers, but it really bothered me.

It was when someone writing for Allure went on a fasting retreat and waxed lyrical about how it brought her closer to the spirit of the hunger strikers. Those were men who starved themselves for certain reasons, and whether they're heroes or villains, some of them died, it's no laughing matter. And for some writer, sitting on her backside, getting pampered in a spa, to put herself in the same sentence as people who went through that ordeal... I was going to write to Allure, but I realised that an editorial team that thinks it's OK to run with that sort of thing, they're not going to see what's wrong with it. They probably went to see Fassbender in The Hunger and applauded his performance, with a nice side order of popcorn sitting on their knee.

Not their people, not their problem, just another source of "inspiration".

[Gaultier_Bandit]

Didn't Tyra Banks do something along these lines for one of the shoots on ANTM. And no one said anything. I find it funny how some people are really sensitive about the subject. Its something that exists ( TRUST ive seen it with my own eyes).Its not like he's exaggerating and making them caricatures...its a reality .Meisel just ads a High Fashion twist to it. Not to mention he used mostly caucasian/white models...it would have been worse had he used all black models.

[Nepenthes]

MyNameIs said it all. I think it's time we move on, people

[Lee MG Tisci]

i don't understand how some people are horrified by that ed when they've actually been releasing previews for days.. what you guys expected? it was obviously not gonna be something chic and glamourous

imo, it's not racist.
yes, those real pictures posted look almost exactly like the ed but why people take it as a thing about race?
i mean, i'm not entitled to have a negative opinion or laugh at those girls doing that stuff with their hairs and nails because otherwise i'd be racist?? i don't think so!

i think the ed can be taken as both a mockery or glorification, it's funny either way.

[YourMonster]

I personally love the Editorial. I love its cheekiness, I love its cheapness and I love the colours!

[justaguy]

Paolo Roversi always does such beautiful work as does Panos Yiapanis, hence, the really lovely photography and styling of the couture editorial. Marie looks nice, but I don't think she brought out the best it could have been.

[nightclubbing]

I'm waiting for Candice's editorial, tbh.

[Psylocke]

I suppose whether you consider this racist or not is somewhat subjective because clearly many people don't see anything offensive about this at all. But I do find it weird some people see this as a tribute to those people's style; the editorial is titled "Haute Mess" after all, which is not actually translated as "hot mess" (though I assume it being pronounced the same way is intentional) but "haute" means "high, enormous, important" and is also often used to refer to social status (correct me if I'm wrong!), that's why I find the argument that this fashion story is at least classist definitely legit. I do not see how this could be a tribute when they're clearly being portrayed as poor people that dress tacky. I find the shot of Joan in the restroom and the one of Stam with the fake pregnancy belly especially questionable.

[iRyan]

I don't see anything wrong with the editorial, it's a PARODY and I think it's hilarious. And it's not just poking fun at the black community, I see tons of trashy white girls who dress similar to that as well and who post stupid pictures of themselves in public bathroom mirrors. I totally get it and find it hilarious. People need to lighten up.