How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Visualizing Fashion / Magazines
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
08-03-2012
  241
fashion elite
 
jmrmartinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Portugal
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,649
i love how Vogue Italia can cause always controversy

  Reply With Quote
 
08-03-2012
  242
rising star
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: las vegas
Gender: femme
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by thankyouhon View Post
I also realized something else about the main editorial that bothered me.

Putting all the race/class issues aside, it doesn't even seem as if Meisel did any research for this. It's like he googled the most outlandish pics of black hair styles (as we can see by the side by side comparisons), threw in stereotypes about malt liquor, weaves and single mothers and called it a day. That's just lazy. He didn't treat the style with any respect whatsoever.

Also, I would not blame Joan for working on this. It would be career suicide to say no to one of the top photographers in the industry. Models of color get very few opportunities and I don't blame her for taking it. Also the fact that she is not American, she may have been somewhat ignorant of what the implications were.

I agree about Joan. (And someone said she isn't american. She is american, she's from new york and is puerto rican, and puerto ricans are american citizens.)
But Pat McGrath also worked on this for makeup. She could've said no. It wouldn't have been career suicide for her. I've totally lost respect for her for her involvement with this mess.

  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  243
scenester
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Gender: femme
Posts: 81
^You are right, I thought she wasn't from America for some reason but I guess that's not the case.

Yeah, I definitely lost respect for the whole creative team involved in this. How no one could find it wrong, boggles my mind.

  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  244
V.I.P.
 
MyNameIs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,152
I hope Meisel wasn't trying to 'please' people with this ed, because if his intention is to please, he should have left alone. There was no way that this type of editorial was ever not going to draw controversy.

I think this editorial very obviously draws 'inspiration' from a predominantly black sub-culture. At least in the US. Maybe some Latino too. Thus, trying to argue that this is somehow representing of cross-racial or cross-cultural lines seems a stretch to me.

With that said, I don't see how this editorial is racist. I don't understand why this sub-culture should be somehow 'off limits' for fashion editorials. One could probably find countless and countless editorials of plenty of other sub-cultures. From different ethnic groups to different national groups (how many times have we seen an ed about Slavic/Russian women wearing kerchiefs?) to different social groups (that soccer wives ed comes to mind), to, yes, racial groups (plenty of red-neck editorials). Yeah, in one sense it's stereotyping, in another sense it's just showcasing drawing attention a sub-culture. Or drawing inspiration from that subculture. Why is it necessarily bad? Should fashion always portray colorless/classless/cultureless "Caroline Trentini" jumping against a gray/white background?

So is the problem that it's not glorified or chic-ified enough? I dare anyone say that these images have no basis in reality, because as been proved by side by side comparisons, they're basically copied off from the real world. So, what's the problem then? If some don't think this style looks good or works, well there are people who think it does look good. Maybe that's the point of showing all these sub-culture, it's to expose people to things they otherwise wouldn't see or seek out. Yeah, sometimes it may not be up to our personal taste or standards, but that's just life. I don't really see Meisel trying to put anyone down here personally.

__________________
SNEJANA ONOPKA

Last edited by MyNameIs; 08-03-2012 at 11:35 AM.
  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  245
V.I.P.
 
StoneSkipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brazil
Gender: homme
Posts: 3,680
MyNameIs, you said exactly everything I wanted to say. Although the controversy was definetely wanted, I highly doubt that powerful people like Franca Sozzani and Steven Meisel take a whole day to sit around and try to find ways to demean the black community. There are real people like that in real life, and I highly doubt that they chose to protray this community because of the race factor. They wanted to demean and mock this type of dressing, not the race itself. It's classist, much more than racist.

But then again, I'm not black, nor American, so my opinion and my points are probably worthless, void and invalid.

  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  246
trendsetter
 
Rotex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIs View Post
I hope Meisel wasn't trying to 'please' people with this ed, because if his intention is to please, he should have left alone. There was no way that this type of editorial was ever not going to draw controversy.

I think this editorial very obviously draws 'inspiration' from a predominantly black sub-culture. At least in the US. Maybe some Latino too. Thus, trying to argue that this is somehow representing of cross-racial or cross-cultural lines seems a stretch to me.

With that said, I don't see how this editorial is racist. I don't understand why this sub-culture should be somehow 'off limits' for fashion editorials. One could probably find countless and countless editorials of plenty of other sub-cultures. From different ethnic groups to different national groups (how many times have we seen an ed about Slavic/Russian women wearing kerchiefs?) to different social groups (that soccer wives ed comes to mind), to, yes, racial groups (plenty of red-neck editorials). Yeah, in one sense it's stereotyping, in another sense it's just showcasing drawing attention a sub-culture. Or drawing inspiration from that subculture. Why is it necessarily bad? Should fashion always portray colorless/classless/cultureless "Caroline Trentini" jumping against a gray/white background?

So is the problem that it's not glorified or chic-ified enough? I dare anyone say that these images have no basis in reality, because as been proved by side by side comparisons, they're basically copied off from the real world. So, what's the problem then? If some don't think this style looks good or works, well there are people who think it does look good. Maybe that's the point of showing all these sub-culture, it's to expose people to things they otherwise wouldn't see or seek out. Yeah, sometimes it may not be up to our personal taste or standards, but that's just life. I don't really see Meisel trying to put anyone down here personally.
I agree . It's not like (in my opinion) this was to mock the culture, I think it was just to portray it. we can't keep seeing the same themed editorials in magazines.

__________________
www.rotexsworld.tumblr.com
  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  247
don't look down
 
tigerrouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Béal Feirste
Gender: femme
Posts: 11,890
Depending on your background, these things do touch you in different ways. The most ignorant thing I ever saw in a fashion magazine wouldn't be noticed by most of its readers, but it really bothered me.

It was when someone writing for Allure went on a fasting retreat and waxed lyrical about how it brought her closer to the spirit of the hunger strikers. Those were men who starved themselves for certain reasons, and whether they're heroes or villains, some of them died, it's no laughing matter. And for some writer, sitting on her backside, getting pampered in a spa, to put herself in the same sentence as people who went through that ordeal... I was going to write to Allure, but I realised that an editorial team that thinks it's OK to run with that sort of thing, they're not going to see what's wrong with it. They probably went to see Fassbender in The Hunger and applauded his performance, with a nice side order of popcorn sitting on their knee.

Not their people, not their problem, just another source of "inspiration".

__________________
You're perfect, yes, it's true. But without me, you're only you.
Status: Online
 
Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  248
fashion insider
 
Gaultier_Bandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Diego, Ca
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,303
Didn't Tyra Banks do something along these lines for one of the shoots on ANTM. And no one said anything. I find it funny how some people are really sensitive about the subject. Its something that exists ( TRUST ive seen it with my own eyes).Its not like he's exaggerating and making them caricatures...its a reality .Meisel just ads a High Fashion twist to it. Not to mention he used mostly caucasian/white models...it would have been worse had he used all black models.

  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  249
V.I.P.
 
Nepenthes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Greece
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,202
MyNameIs said it all. I think it's time we move on, people

  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  250
fashion insider
 
Lee MG Tisci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Stgo.d'CHILE
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,415
i don't understand how some people are horrified by that ed when they've actually been releasing previews for days.. what you guys expected? it was obviously not gonna be something chic and glamourous

imo, it's not racist.
yes, those real pictures posted look almost exactly like the ed but why people take it as a thing about race?
i mean, i'm not entitled to have a negative opinion or laugh at those girls doing that stuff with their hairs and nails because otherwise i'd be racist?? i don't think so!

i think the ed can be taken as both a mockery or glorification, it's funny either way.

__________________
Moss - Stone - Boscono - Dunn
Abualrub - Beech - Chabernaud - Teixeira
  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  251
front row
 
YourMonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Gender: homme
Posts: 389
I personally love the Editorial. I love its cheekiness, I love its cheapness and I love the colours!

__________________
Live Passionatley Tonight
  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  252
V.I.P.
 
justaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United States
Gender: homme
Posts: 31,594
Paolo Roversi always does such beautiful work as does Panos Yiapanis, hence, the really lovely photography and styling of the couture editorial. Marie looks nice, but I don't think she brought out the best it could have been.

__________________
Frock n' Roll
  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  253
trendsetter
 
nightclubbing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NYC
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,371
I'm waiting for Candice's editorial, tbh.

__________________
I'm from New York, I will kill to get what I need. ; tumblr
  Reply With Quote
08-03-2012
  254
V.I.P.
 
Psylocke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Gender: femme
Posts: 10,936
I suppose whether you consider this racist or not is somewhat subjective because clearly many people don't see anything offensive about this at all. But I do find it weird some people see this as a tribute to those people's style; the editorial is titled "Haute Mess" after all, which is not actually translated as "hot mess" (though I assume it being pronounced the same way is intentional) but "haute" means "high, enormous, important" and is also often used to refer to social status (correct me if I'm wrong!), that's why I find the argument that this fashion story is at least classist definitely legit. I do not see how this could be a tribute when they're clearly being portrayed as poor people that dress tacky. I find the shot of Joan in the restroom and the one of Stam with the fake pregnancy belly especially questionable.


Last edited by Psylocke; 08-03-2012 at 11:40 PM.
  Reply With Quote
09-03-2012
  255
front row
 
iRyan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Diego
Gender: homme
Posts: 316
I don't see anything wrong with the editorial, it's a PARODY and I think it's hilarious. And it's not just poking fun at the black community, I see tons of trashy white girls who dress similar to that as well and who post stupid pictures of themselves in public bathroom mirrors. I totally get it and find it hilarious. People need to lighten up.

  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
2012, italia, joan, march, meisel, smalls, steven, vogue
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 AM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. ©2014 All rights reserved.