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28-10-2007
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Why does Vogue feature so few Asian models
I bought November issue of Vogue Nippon, the first time I've ever bought it actually and I was very suprised and even frustrated that the whole issues contained ONE image of an Asian-looking (i think she was a mixed race with Caucasian) model and even that was in Promotion (so ADS).
They had a supplement, like Vogue Bambini, for children's clothing and there was ONE Japanese child one the cover and that's it! All the rest of them were, white, Europen-looking child-models.
I asked some Japanese people why they think it is, and they gave me a bunch of conspiracy theories, how Vogue Nippon is owned by Westerners and they try to promote their image I doubt it, to be honest. I know, they probly feature Western girls because they sell better but that doesn't solve my quiery. WHY? Why do they sell better?
Both Chinese and Korean Vogues have lots of Asian models in it so Why is Nippon so different?
They have no Japanese celebrities in it either, just Western and a couple of businesswomen of Asian-descent in America.

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28-10-2007
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28-10-2007
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it's not just their publications, yanka. have you followed tokyo fashion week?, it tends to be flooded with caucasian models as well.. it's kind of opening up.. though I'm not sure how much since Limi Feu left this season and she seemed to be encouraging that, but still, there are many shows where it's almost a rule not to hire anyone of different race..

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28-10-2007
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.. trying to add a little more: you know people complain so much about US Vogue not acknowledging the demographics of the country they represent and allegedly speak for in terms of fashion but I feel more worried about Vogue Nippon parameters in that race department as they're ultimately not directed at overseas buyers but at their own.. promoting western fashion only perhaps but still aimed for people in that country to buy it, otherwise they'd be publishing elsewhere, right?.
having said that, and trying to find a perhaps very naive and contradicting excuse.. the only (unfortunate) way to be taken seriously when you're doing fashion is to represent the world's top standards, which for better or for worse, are created in european fashion capitals, they not just have the money but the reputation no one's gotten close to so far outside the western world. in that regard, I suppose everything that Vogue Nippon is trying to do is having a publication that can compete with overseas counterparts such as Vogue Italia, Numero, ID, Dazed, whatever.. and by doing that, they need to use not just of-the-moment clothes but also of-the-moment stylists, photographers, makeup artists AND models.. now the models issue and lack of diversity is something that's coming from the west, it's not their fault, is it?. one could blame them just as badly for using stylists and photographers with western-sounding names only right?, but if you think about their ambitions as a real fashion magazine and try to think about the real root of the racial problem.. all paths take us back to Paris.. I know I've seen fairly accomplished Japanese photographers working at Vogue Nippon and they usually end up there once they've achieved some degree of success in europe, which speaks for Japan's fashion scene strategies, I guess..

hmm, I feel like I could've been more brief.. hope that made some sense and didn't come off as if I had a good number of standards under my sleeve.

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Last edited by MulletProof; 28-10-2007 at 05:38 PM.
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28-10-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletProof View Post
I suppose everything that Vogue Nippon is trying to do is having a publication that can compete with overseas counterparts such as Vogue Italia, Numero, ID, Dazed, whatever.. and by doing that, they need to use not just of-the-moment clothes but also of-the-moment stylists, photographers, makeup artists AND models.. now the models issue and lack of diversity is something that's coming from the west, it's not their fault, is it?
That's what I was going to say

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28-10-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletProof View Post
.. trying to add a little more: you know people complain so much about US Vogue not acknowledging the demographics of the country they represent and allegedly speak for in terms of fashion but I feel more worried about Vogue Nippon parameters in that race department as they're ultimately not directed at overseas buyers but at their own..
Yeah, I know, that's exactly what I was getting at! Japense is not a language a lot of people outside Japan would speak and most people in the West would not buy Vogue Nippon (not too mention, it's like 20$ to buy compared to the same 5$ for Vogue US), so it's made under Japanese direction for Japanese people. I don't think there are a whole lot of "Japanese-English" or whatever living in actual Japan.
promoting western fashion only perhaps but still aimed for people in that country to buy it, otherwise they'd be publishing elsewhere, right?. Absolutely.
having said that, and trying to find a perhaps very naive and contradicting excuse.. the only (unfortunate) way to be taken seriously when you're doing fashion is to represent the world's top standards, which for better or for worse, are created in european fashion capitals, they not just have the money but the reputation no one's gotten close to so far outside the western world. Yeah, I suppose that's right altough you can't deny there are a whole lot of powerful Japanese designers, some major fashion companies (even French) are owned by Japanese and other Asian businessmen, so it's not like it's ultimate domination by the West. in that regard, I suppose everything that Vogue Nippon is trying to do is having a publication that can compete with overseas counterparts such as Vogue Italia, Numero, ID, Dazed, whatever.. and by doing that, they need to use not just of-the-moment clothes but also of-the-moment stylists, photographers, makeup artists AND models.. now the models issue and lack of diversity is something that's coming from the west, it's not their fault, is it? Well, it's one point of you, on the other hand, other Asian fashion magazines, as I said, like Vogue China and Korea use a lot more Asian models without loosing credibility, in fact I believe Vogue China is the fastest-growing Vogue in the world. one could blame them just as badly for using stylists and photographers with western-sounding names only right?,Well, not really, because stylists and photographers are creators (and a lot of people don't even read their names anyway), while models (or model's image) is part of the finished product. It represents product's values. but if you think about their ambitions as a real fashion magazine and try to think about the real root of the racial problem.. all paths take us back to Paris.. I know I've seen fairly accomplished Japanese photographers working at Vogue Nippon and they usually end up there once they've achieved some degree of success in europe, which speaks for Japan's fashion scene strategies, I guess.. I guess so, if you think about it, all prominent Japanese fashion designers show in Paris, not in Tokyo. And also, funnily enough, a lot of Japanese view labels like Comme de Garcons as less "fashion" than, say, Lanvin, because it's cheaper, more acciseble and home-grown. While for me, Comme is like, the "fashion fashion".

hmm, I feel like I could've been more brief.. hope that made some sense and didn't come off as if I had a good number of standards under my sleeve.
Yeah, of course it made sense, thanks for the lenghty reply. Are you Japanese or Asian by any chance? I wonder what Japanese actually working in the industry think about all this.
Also, you say they have to use prominent models and most of them are Western but in the freaking CHILD'S FASHION supplement, they still use Western children except ONE. I mean, seriously, you can't say you know any famous child models. And children of all races are beutiful. It just gives off a very incomfortable message... If you know what I mean... It's like, Western children are more desirable or something VERY sinister like that.

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28-10-2007
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Yeah me too. I'd love to hear the input of Japanese fashion insiders IN Japan. I suppose that'd give us a realistic, albeit slightly frightening picture of what their fashion motifs are.
I don't know about numbers or anything but I'd pretty much put Vogue Nippon at the top of their game in Asia.. even though Vogue China, Korea have a good reputation in the international market, I'd say Vogue Nippon is the one that doesn't just keep up with what's going on in fashion but also sets its own standards within and for the fashion industry and is pretty much on the same caliber as I-D and other cult publications that are not known for featuring IT things only but for seeing and creating IT themselves.
then again, to confuse myself more, I'd say I-D is even more receptive to diversity than Vogue Nippon.

The children's part sounds very freaky indeed. it just crashed all my arguments, dammit.

and no, I'm not asian, don't work in the industry and have never been to Japan. I have it all against me right now.

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28-10-2007
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Why does Vogue Paris feature so few french models?
Why does Vogue US feature so few US models?
Why does Vogue Espana feature so few Spanish models?
Why does Vogue Germany feature so few german models?

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28-10-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushie View Post
Why does Vogue Paris feature so few french models?
Why does Vogue US feature so few US models?
Why does Vogue Espana feature so few Spanish models?
Why does Vogue Germany feature so few german models?

You know perfectly well it's NOT the same. German models look like they could be french, Russian look like they could be American etc. Cause all of these are ethnicities of the same race. But Vogue Nippon presents us with this weird world where everybody speaks Japanese yet no one LOOKS Japanese. Like, (im sorry, i hope I'm allowed to say this) mongoloid race doesn't exist! This is a very distorted perspective yet it's here, right in front of me right now, staring at me with huge blue eyes of Tanya D.

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28-10-2007
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that's a good point, kushie.. I guess you could answer that with Brazil and Russia having their pages filled with their own national product and being loyal to their own culture. but one should wonder if they'd do it even if they didn't produce as many models as they do.. if they weren't such a big force in the modeling world.. once the direction changes (and I guess we'll have to sit and wait quite a while for that), we'll see how truly 'patriotic' they're being...

.. and.. anyway, I'd argue that magazines like US Vogue, UK, España, French and Germany do feature homegrown girls several times a year.. as either actresses, singers or whatever but you can't blame them for not trying to represent at least the current popular culture [celebrities] for the readers of their own nation in some way that Vogue Nippon hasn't even bothered to do..

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28-10-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushie View Post
Why does Vogue Paris feature so few french models?
Why does Vogue US feature so few US models?
Why does Vogue Espana feature so few Spanish models?
Why does Vogue Germany feature so few german models?
French, Spanish, and German are not races. They are nationalities. Same goes for American. But it is safe to say that the majority of these countries have a majority of people who are Caucasian.

I'm American, ethnic background mostly Caucasian (Irish/Dutch) with a speck of Cherokee. However, most people just see me as "white."

And yes, it is odd that a publication from Japan would feature a majority of Caucasians. However, I've been told that using Caucasian models is a big boost to sales?

In my opinion, I like fashion magazines with a mix of people - no matter where that magazine happens to be published.

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Last edited by American Aries; 28-10-2007 at 08:30 PM. Reason: spelling
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28-10-2007
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Well Japan has about a zillion magazines...as for fashion mags (I see them every time I go to the Japanese Mag store) many of them feature Japanese models on the cover & inside...so it doesn't bother me a bit that Vogue Nippon doesn't...I agree with what MulletProof said...and I'll add that Vogue Nippon is for people around the world in the Fashion Industry or dedicated followers of fashion & not the masses...Vogue in some countries is elitist like that...

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28-10-2007
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^ That's the reason, definitely.

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28-10-2007
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I believe a lot of Asian's are facinated by the whole 'blue eyed, blonde haired' stereotype of a Western girl (a large percent of all cosmetic procedures done in China is to look more Western). As MMA mentioned, Vogue Nippon is a lot different to the other Japanese magazines in that sense that it isn't necessarily targeted towards the average Japanese reader.

Didn't the first issues of Vogue China and Vogue India both contain Gemma Ward on the cover ?

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28-10-2007
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^ They did but there were native models too. Also Vogue Korea put Linda Evangelista on the cover of their premier issue.

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