How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Visualizing Fashion / Art & Design
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
10-03-2006
  16
V.I.P.
 
faust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York City
Posts: 10,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by *sayan
sounds like a interesting article, can you post it?
http://www.sharecom.ca/greenberg/kitsch.html

Coincidentally, I just read it two weeks ago for class. It's a very good essay, but don't take it as bible - this is a purely modernist perspective, and it is no longer recognized as the only correct one. (btw, I hope you didn't get offended at my previous comment - now that I am rereading it, it sounds a little rude)


Last edited by faust; 10-03-2006 at 12:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote
 
10-03-2006
  17
trendsetter
 
Bidwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: France
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,323
Although art critics will insist that the Avantgarde died and is obsolete in our post-modernist society where everything has an origin, I would argue that new ideas and movements continue and will always continue to form without the acknowledgement of the general population. As the definition entails.
The half life is just much shorter than it once was with all our instant media. It is a temporal state after all. Perhaps that in itself is a fairly strong argument against it.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  18
front row
 
Join Date: May 2005
Gender: homme
Posts: 332
Bah, Greenbergian formalism is sooo.... yesterday :p

More seriously, like faust said, it's not the bible of art theory, Greenberg just posited a specific kind of method and purpose of the arts as he saw fit. It's hardly canon, and his influence over the conceptual direction of the arts lasted a very short amount of time. My main problem with Greenberg's position is that it assumes that new/differnt art aesthetics (such as the ones he sold/pimped in the galleries... *whistle*) is intrinsically better than old art, simply by the notion that art moves forward in progression, as opposed to art being a lateral/directionless transition of expression through whichever culture/indivual creates the work.... I think it's terribly elitist and a very narrow definition of what art constitutes.


Last edited by andrew; 10-03-2006 at 02:26 PM.
  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  19
V.I.P.
 
faust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York City
Posts: 10,312
I love tFS - we talk about art'n'sh*t , and even engage in Clembashing!!! No, really - this is cool. I just hope this doesn't get moved to the shopping section

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  20
slightly dizzy
 
tott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,261
^

Thanks for the laugh faust!


Last edited by tott; 10-03-2006 at 03:05 PM.
  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  21
front row
 
Join Date: May 2005
Gender: homme
Posts: 332
I am always willing take time from my day to pour some hatorade on Greenberg.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  22
front row
 
elschic111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Gender: femme
Posts: 432
excellent thread!

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  23
V.I.P.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by faust
I love tFS - we talk about art'n'sh*t , and even engage in Clembashing!!! No, really - this is cool. I just hope this doesn't get moved to the shopping section


Karma!!

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  24
scenester
 
fuchimama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Gender: femme
Posts: 50
I think at one time, avant-garde played a crucial role in preventing stagnation... now as far as fashion is concerned too many designers are classified as avant-garde. It's so easy to make critics love amateurish, poorly tailored clothing when you have the "experimental" label to hide behind.

Pretenders that donít understand how peopleís bodies actually work must resort to childish antics to save face-- so we saw the masks and unhemmed craziness this season (and don't tell me you buy into all that semiotic hype) detracting from the poor craftsmanship of the clothes.

It's a good racket these designers have going. They get major attention without doing any quality work.

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  25
rising star
 
sullen_femme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Antonio
Gender: femme
Posts: 149
OK so then if everyone has a rough idea ABOUT it, why is Tokyo the avant garde capital of the world? That doesn't seem right, but then again I've never been there.

__________________
Women who seek to be equal to me lack ambition.

see me at myspace http://www.myspace.com/23845095

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  26
Of a bastard line.
 
Multitudes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London(& Copenhagen)
Gender: homme
Posts: 9,329
Ooh... The greatest Illusion that the modernist project ever created... avantgarde.. the idea of progress... the idea of moving forward... to an ideal of something "new" to break boundaries and dominant discourses... an idea based on subjectivity and subjects of statements...
... transgressing the boundaries, adopting the darring stance of rebellion, has little importance in itself, for weather one accepts or rejects "prohibition", one's identity/idea is still formed on its basis. So for me this term avantgarde is of little use(Isn't also a huge contradiction by defing it we fixate it..?), either way you see it, cliche or not...
Instead of directing desires towards either the permisible or forbiden "persons", we should encourage the connection of desires... one enters pacts with innumerable parts, the necessary condition is that such flows can never become subjects of statement(or language), even though they may be territorial and expressive. Desire no longer flows between subjects who to a greater or lesser degree express a normalized, majoritan ideal; desire is no longer simulated by the resonance of subjects of statements. In stead, desire is territorial and machinic... One desires something together with which one can function in order to produce things. There is no need to dismantle the assemblage which has produced a subject(the dominant, majoritan etc..), because as soon as the assemblage gains another component, it is significantly changed with which it will function... it is in the connection we discover other modes of expressions... And not in what avantgarde suggest in "moving forward".. in "progress".... or in the "new"...

__________________
We say too much in front of paintings ...
www.becomingmads.com
  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  27
V.I.P.
 
brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Gender: homme
Posts: 14,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by sullen_femme
I know this is going to make me sound dumb, but what exactly is avant garde? So far the only thing I can find is that it is unexpected. I don't know if that's even right.
hey! you're from san antonio! ...

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  28
rising star
 
sullen_femme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Antonio
Gender: femme
Posts: 149
^^ yeah A lesbian in San Antonio who can't get enough of fashion- did you ever think you'd see the day?

__________________
Women who seek to be equal to me lack ambition.

see me at myspace http://www.myspace.com/23845095

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  29
rising star
 
sullen_femme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Antonio
Gender: femme
Posts: 149
As much as I understand what everyone's saying, it seems a little odd to me. Who are these people who separate avant garde from just plain bad design? or is it something we see only in retrospect like "wow that person was so ahead of their time"

__________________
Women who seek to be equal to me lack ambition.

see me at myspace http://www.myspace.com/23845095

  Reply With Quote
10-03-2006
  30
trendsetter
 
Bidwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: France
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,323
Individualism is the ultimate catalyst. No one can dispute a genius like Duchamp was entirely his own in his view of what constituted art. Call it eccentricity or even madness, it's the deeply personal view of the world that fuels true creativity regardless of ongoing trends or progress.
Unique ideas are apt to be studied or at least considered for their "oddness" and if valid enough, absorbed into the body we call society.
Only in hindsight do we acknowledge the pioneers who forever changed our collective viewpoint.
Unfortunately, it's too often tagged to almost anything out of the ordinary, good or more often, bad.

  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
avant, garde
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. ©2014 All rights reserved.