How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Visualizing Fashion / Art & Design
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
10-03-2006
  31
front row
 
Join Date: May 2005
Gender: homme
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by sullen_femme
OK so then if everyone has a rough idea ABOUT it, why is Tokyo the avant garde capital of the world? That doesn't seem right, but then again I've never been there.
Claiming that x is the capital of some abstract art concept is silly at best, and mostly just done by people with vested interests (ie, $$$$ and elitism) I mean, I could say my pants are the capital of the avant garde and it would be worth just as much as a statement... If not more

If we're talking about Greenberg's avant garde, such a statement becomes even more problematic, as it genuinely makes no sense; since the avant garde is largely ignored by the masses (whom are distracted by the dominant culture of kitsch), it would be impossible to have a central geographic capital of something being done purely by a few individuals done outside culture (which is the point of Greenbergian formalism).

IMO, "avant garde" is a term that critics and the ilk like the throw around to create artificial distinctions and strata between art they like and art they dislike, nothing more. At one point in a given context it could have actually meant something but at this point in time it's about as useful as saying something is "deconstructed" (don't even get me started) or has "minimalism". Basically... useless.

As they say, "everything changes but the avant garde".


Last edited by andrew; 10-03-2006 at 11:53 PM.
  Reply With Quote
 
10-03-2006
  32
backstage pass
 
Honey~Blade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 861
Yes I'm sick of people, especially those marketing guru's loosely using the word as something cool. Just like how limited tees and that are so played out by brands etc.

__________________
No fight for the tainted, no hours of delusion and sugared ecstasy for the talented. Hoping in emptiness is a favorite passtime of zombies. Roses are ashes reborn and kissed.
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  33
front crow
 
*sayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 51.22-4.40
Gender: homme
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by faust
(btw, I hope you didn't get offended at my previous comment - now that I am rereading it, it sounds a little rude)
karma..hehe

  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  34
rising star
 
artxstatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New York & Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 160
Avant Garde is the driving force of creativity. It’s about not being on axis and refraining from conformity.

  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  35
Of a bastard line.
 
Multitudes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London(& Copenhagen)
Gender: homme
Posts: 9,329
... for me... The driving force of creativity lies in the connection of desires... bonds that exists between people "here and now"... in the politics of desires... A society of desires....

__________________
We say too much in front of paintings ...
www.becomingmads.com
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  36
trendsetter
 
Avant Garde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,455
[to me] avant garde is experimenting in areas like art, and pushing the boundaries.

  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  37
Of a bastard line.
 
Multitudes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London(& Copenhagen)
Gender: homme
Posts: 9,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multitudes
... for me... The driving force of creativity lies in the connection of desires... bonds that exists between people "here and now"... in the politics of desires... A society of desires....
Just to ad.. ... A society of desires, which is collective, which differentiate from the modernist project of the "avant garde" which relies on the notion of the singular subject(the basis... which in away it so much want to escape, but hasn't realized it yet...)

__________________
We say too much in front of paintings ...
www.becomingmads.com

Last edited by Multitudes; 11-03-2006 at 03:38 PM.
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  38
rising star
 
artxstatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New York & Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 160
there's something almost intelligent about being odd.

  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  39
Of a bastard line.
 
Multitudes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London(& Copenhagen)
Gender: homme
Posts: 9,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by artxstatic
there's something almost intelligent about being odd.
yes... and what an interesting form of intelligence oddness(or excenricity..) propose...

__________________
We say too much in front of paintings ...
www.becomingmads.com
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  40
rising star
 
artxstatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New York & Paris
Gender: homme
Posts: 160
referring to multitudes

...the term avant garde doesn't essentially need to be considered singular...applying the ideologies of the romanticism movement here, artists in the mid nineteenth century considered individual expression avant garde because it meant not having to pay any importance to intellectual disciplines. Avant Garde would be synonymous with individual progression then. But today it applies differently. Today there are so many manifestations of avant garde that it has cultivated into something big and varied. It talks about people as a whole progression, something collective. Today individual progression is not as effective as collective resistance to conformity.

...that reminds me we need a new renaissance.


Last edited by artxstatic; 11-03-2006 at 04:28 PM.
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  41
Of a bastard line.
 
Multitudes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London(& Copenhagen)
Gender: homme
Posts: 9,329
Yes Artsxstatic... you are quite right... I just call this collective notion of the "avant garde", as you propose, "the politics of desire" or "the society of desire", to avoid any confusion with the modernist definition, which do derives from the notion of the singular subject... the narative, expressionism, symbolism, cubism etc... which has been proposed in thios thread...
The society of desire is not simply a loose, bohemian association of Parisian artists and thinkers. The revolution of desires doesn't aim to transform everyone into artists as such. Instead, the social domain itself becomes a collective field of aesthetic experimentation... One events by establishing "new" kind of relations and syntheses. Aesthetic experimentation is primarily directed to the "micropolitical" bonds between people, and people and environment. Here, there is no individual mastery over a specific domain(As the modernistic idea of the avant garde propose...).... All action is collective because because a collective way of living is constructed. The aesthetic paradigm replaces current forms of art and social life by means of a collective production of collectivity....
... So yes maybe a new renaissance... but let the renaissance be... A revolution of desires...

__________________
We say too much in front of paintings ...
www.becomingmads.com
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  42
fashion icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Gender: homme
Posts: 3,340
ah, great thread...when I started reading it I didn't want to stop. faust and Multitudes I applaud both of you especially for making this thread enjoyable.

  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  43
fashion icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Gender: homme
Posts: 3,340
And as a response to artxstatic and Multitudes: The thing that interests me about the concept of avant garde is perhaps the exact reason multitudes stated as being an impossibility: The appearance of escaping the basis of society which ultimately forms all ideas. I was always highly attracted to the idea of rebellion, whether it is possible or not, the idea of 'escape' from any kind of social boundaries...thus I disagree with the revolution of desires. I think even though a collective voice is stronger than an individual's progression, but it is the exact position of individuals who seek to distance themselves from any other conceivable existing form of art, behavior, or ideology that has always appealed to me...however strong their voice might be. I guess i've always considered myself 'on the fringes'...seriously back in school days if someone told everyone in a room to run a certain direction in one of those simon says games, i'd be the kid who would run the other way or just stand still to draw attention

Maybe that's the underlying philosophy behind my embrace of being eccentric - a subconscious need for attention and recognition that i'm not exactly going with the flow, so to speak...i've always had an affection for friction, tension and dissonance...translated to the art of fashion results in my love of things such as asymmetry, destruction and imperfection...which seem to be trademarks of those usually mentioned as being part of the fashion 'avant garde'


Last edited by Fade to Black; 11-03-2006 at 05:32 PM.
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  44
More Old Skool Than You
 
fourboltmain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Under an old Ford
Gender: homme
Posts: 4,181
I'd like to think of it as something like a torrent below. A good way to explain it would be underground music, but not the copy cats and hangers on, it's more or less innovation or the road less traveled. To be shocking isn't enough, it has to make people think and open them up to ideas they would have never thought of themselves. That's how I see it. It needs to break down walls, not just by pushing the envelope, but folding it up into a paper airplane and throwing it off a building.


__________________
www.lynch455.com

Last edited by fourboltmain; 11-03-2006 at 05:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
11-03-2006
  45
fashion icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Gender: homme
Posts: 3,340
But going back to my last paragraph in the post above...perhaps Multitudes was right after all - the motivation for clashing with the social norm could possibly be seen as deriving from an inherent need for the validation of exactly the platform one is trying to leave, which is to gain the affirmation of the social collective, some semblance of letting one know that there's people who agree with your stance. I think as social beings it's impossible to truly go against the grain with reckless abandon...but at least i think the thought of that is something wonderful.

  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
avant, garde
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55 AM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. 2014 All rights reserved.