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05-12-2008
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ChrissyM, that is exactly the reason why I feel more comfortable with classical art or "old-fashioned" art. While I recognise modern art as good art, I think that art itself has fundamentally changed. These days art is, over everything, a way of expression, a way of saying your opinion... a democratic thing. Everybody can, in essence, be an artist these days. That is not to be understood in a belittling way, though.

Before, an artist had to have pure craftsmanship to become one. I am aware that art before wasn't just "pretty pictures", but having an opinion or an ideology you wanted to express wasn't enough to become an artist - you also needed to know how create beauty on the canvas or from marble. These days beauty is seen as more superficial... still, I feel "old" art has more depth than 20th century art because it combines beauty (which I don't think is simply superficial) and ideas, not just ideas.

And then, of course, the invention called photography pretty much was the death to detailed, skillful painting, I guess.

Sorry, I guess I wandered a bit too far with this!

Pastry - ooh, what do you study, may I ask? The topic of Elizabeth I & costume is indeed a fascinating one.

The subject of costume/fashion and power gets even more interesting during Baroque... Louis XIV certainly approved of Elizabeth's logic - and his cousin Charles II definitely understood the symbolic importance of dressing like a king after the English Restoration. It is odd that these days if a man or a woman dresses ostentiously and spends a great deal of time with it, it is seen as an indicator of a "weak" person - or at least one who is preoccupied with one thing only. Just go back some 300-200 odd years...

Anyway, I could go on and on about this... I would love to study more about this topic and try to find out the reasons behind the 360 degree change in our opinions about fashion and what it represents.

Speaking of ruff... here's Peter Paul Rubens's view of the ruff (web gallery of art)

By the way... would it be ok to post sculpture here too?
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg 03brigid.jpg (154.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 05pallav.jpg (172.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 08artist.jpg (161.3 KB, 4 views)

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"Because of all sorts of cloth have their motions, as well as Bodies, it must needs that they differ in themselves." -Lomazzo
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05-12-2008
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Sandro Botticelli's La Primavera... (same source)
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File Type: jpg 11primav.jpg (178.4 KB, 3 views)

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"Because of all sorts of cloth have their motions, as well as Bodies, it must needs that they differ in themselves." -Lomazzo
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06-12-2008
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Thanks for the Rubens images, WL. I think the giant lace ruff might have been an exaggeration. Artists often made up items of dress of entire looks for the subjects of their portraits. Partly because real life garments from the time show us that people really didn't have the technology to make smooth seams or well-fitting clothing overall. Although, interesting fact, the linen and starch used in ruff-making did come from Holland and Belgium.

Anyways, ...I wrote the essay for my history of costume course. It was fascianting to discover the Queen's peculiarities. Above all things, she was just a woman who loved clothes. She loved having her clothes embroidered with images of men, plants, and bugs...she even wore a realistic spider pin in her veil. In short, she was an awesome lady.

Oh, and some of the contemporary comments about ther ruff are incredible to read. Some attack the ruff and the starch used to stiffen it as devil's doings. Like you said, I could go on and on.









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"...buttoned up to the breast, and made with wings, welts, and pinions on the shoulder points, as mans apparel is for all the world...and though this be a kinde of attire appropriate onely to man, yet they blush not to wear it..."
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06-12-2008
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ruff? didn't know it had that name..
any info about the starch ? i read they used wire also, for the especially big ones.. that starch couldn't have held it up

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06-12-2008
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Yes, it is thought that, originally, starch was derived from rice water used in Indonesia (?) used to stiffen traditional costume. The method of starching was popularized around mid 16th century in Holland and was passed on to Spain, France and England.
The ruffs were made from yards and yards of fine imported linen that was starched and, when damp, shaped into it's typical tube-like forms by hot irons called poking sticks.

And yes, gius, the ruffs were held up by a wire stricture called a "supportase" or "underpropper", which were often decorated with metallic or silk thread.

Phew...as you can tell, I've done my homework.

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"...buttoned up to the breast, and made with wings, welts, and pinions on the shoulder points, as mans apparel is for all the world...and though this be a kinde of attire appropriate onely to man, yet they blush not to wear it..."
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06-12-2008
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supportase, underpropper ..very cute haha
sounds like you would have had a good grade
i loved history (textile) class myself
never before in my life have i ever
and the essays were a lot of fun

m i could never bring myself to use starch to stiffen fabrics nowadays for fear of inviting animals and things..
thanks for the info! also the metallic thread sounds interesting

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06-12-2008
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^actually, despite the extensive research I did, my essay sucked. My writing skills are no good.

Oh well, the most important thing is what I learned.

*I'll try to scan some examples of silver thread embroidery from this incredible book in my school's library next week.

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"...buttoned up to the breast, and made with wings, welts, and pinions on the shoulder points, as mans apparel is for all the world...and though this be a kinde of attire appropriate onely to man, yet they blush not to wear it..."

Last edited by Pastry; 06-12-2008 at 10:42 PM.
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08-12-2008
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Art IS the life of FASHION
Fashion IS the life of ART

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08-12-2008
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What a nice thread.

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14-12-2008
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whitelinen i definitely think it would be ok to post sculpture too... it is art after all and serves the same purpose as paintings and illustrations imo...

and in many ways the subtleties of clothing/fashion are probably even more difficult to portray or more striking when they are conveyed through sculpture..

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14-12-2008
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I think the tread title should be changed to Fashion through Art

I love this thread so much, i try to post some interesting paintings that I see, guys please continue to post more paintings!

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11-03-2009
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Domenico Veneziano's Portrait of a Young Girl
c. 1465

The painting shows a young woman wearing an exquisite brocade dress. Although at first glance a half-length portrait is suggested, the subject's posture indicates that she is sitting in the marble embrasure of a window or balcony. A bright blue sky fills almost the entire background and contrasts with the pale flesh-tint to give the picture its distinctive colour-harmony.

The painter has shown an incredibly sure touch in bringing out the essential features of the young woman's face in profile. The features are delineated with the minimum of detail. The pattern of the brocade dress, depicted in the plane, underlines the medallion-like character of the picture. The emphatic use of line and the clarity of the contrasting colour-surfaces have always been regarded as typical of the Florentine style, but opinions differ as to the identity of the master.

The attribution to Domenico Veneziano we owe to Wilhelm Bode; before he purchased the portrait it had been attributed to Piero della Francesca. Latterly, the view has gained ground that this portrait was the work of Antonio Pollaiuolo. However, it is alternatively attributed to Alessio Baldovinetti.


wga.hu

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12-03-2009
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Philippe de Champaigne: Ex voto (1662)


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17-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelinen View Post
I can't help but be amazed over and over again by the garments and jewellery worn by Queen Elizabeth I in the portraits of her... here are some of my favourites, from various artists of the period. The symbolism behind the Renaissance portrait dress is fascinating.

(source:university of essex website)
Now having taken some construction/sewing classes, I'm so amazed by these Queen Elizabeth garments.. the way the fabrics hold their shape, some seem like it is the structure of the actual fabric and some seem they need a stiffener on the inside.. as opposed to most of what has been posted so far, this is so close to 'tailoring' and for a woman's garment, from long long time ago which is really interesting.

Anyone know what these thick bands on the arms might be called?
http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums...6&d=1227729463

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18-03-2009
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Omg this thread is eye candy!! i love paintings

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