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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Softee@Apr 12th, 2004 - 12:50 pm
I don't really agree with the article... I mean it's sooo condescending...
Russian women are famous all over the world for dressing well, and sexy, now and during Communism. Imagine that! That wasn't easy, but they did it...
This article makes it sound like fashion is a new concept for most Russians. What were they wearing all these years? Well, a lot of people had imported clothes, and whole lotta people sewed their own clothes according to the latest fashion. I assure you Russian women dressed no worse than American. And that's a fact!

And FYI, the majority of Russian women still dress better than most American women do (and they are less fat than American, and a lot more attractive than French and English women, sorry but it's true) . Anyone who goes to Moscow notices that right at the airport...

So, this article was definitely written from an ignorant standpoint, and reeks of American propaganda. It's amazing, the cold war is over but they still can't overcome their dislike and fear of Russians. Most of them don't even know much about them, and this is where these articles come from. Very CNN...

Oh, yeah, right now I totally understand what Paul Newman meant when he said that NYT is a trash can...
I think you are blowing this a bit out of proportion and are being a bit defensive. I agree with you on the fact that in general NYT articles on Russia are under-informed and over-generalized, but to say that they write it as propaganda is a bit far-fetched. Also, to say that one nation dresses better than another is a bit misleading. I think it's more fair to compare how the same stratas of society dress in different countries (i.e. rich in US and Russia, middle-class in US and Russia, etc).

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Softee@Apr 12th, 2004 - 12:50 pm
I don't really agree with the article... I mean it's sooo condescending...
Russian women are famous all over the world for dressing well, and sexy, now and during Communism. Imagine that! That wasn't easy, but they did it...
This article makes it sound like fashion is a new concept for most Russians. What were they wearing all these years? Well, a lot of people had imported clothes, and whole lotta people sewed their own clothes according to the latest fashion. I assure you Russian women dressed no worse than American. And that's a fact!

And FYI, the majority of Russian women still dress better than most American women do (and they are less fat than American, and a lot more attractive than French and English women, sorry but it's true) . Anyone who goes to Moscow notices that right at the airport...

So, this article was definitely written from an ignorant standpoint, and reeks of American propaganda. It's amazing, the cold war is over but they still can't overcome their dislike and fear of Russians. Most of them don't even know much about them, and this is where these articles come from. Very CNN...

Oh, yeah, right now I totally understand what Paul Newman meant when he said that NYT is a trash can...
shall we assume you are russian...

and btw-i'm called softie...so there's no confusion...

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12-04-2004
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Softee
where does it say that American women dress better than Russian women?

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by faust@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:14 pm
I think it's more fair to compare how the same stratas of society dress in different countries (i.e. rich in US and Russia, middle-class in US and Russia, etc).
Yes, I agree it would be more accurate.
But the article talks about how Russians are dressing (or starting to dress) in general, doesn't it?
And what I meant by propaganda, is that the Western world had not yet switched from it's cold war mentality, a lot of jounalists are still operating on the anti-soviet propaganda mode...

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sugo@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:19 pm
Softee
where does it say that American women dress better than Russian women?
Sugo
Do I have to explain that it's implied or maybe you will think about it for 10 secs ?

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by strawberry daiquiri@Apr 12th, 2004 - 10:26 am
Wow, they look good enough to eat..
lol they do

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12-04-2004
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i agree with faust-(big surprise )...calling it propaganda is a bit far-fetched and sounds somewhat paranoid to me...

and softee-you sound about as soft as i am...hahaha

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Softee+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:13 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Softee @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:13 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-faust@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:14 pm
I think it's more fair to compare how the same stratas of society dress in different countries (i.e. rich in US and Russia, middle-class in US and Russia, etc).
Yes, I agree it would be more accurate.
But the article talks about how Russians are dressing (or starting to dress) in general, doesn't it?
And what I meant by propaganda, is that the Western world had not yet switched from it's cold war mentality, a lot of jounalists are still operating on the anti-soviet propaganda mode...[/b][/quote]
Hmm, I hate to disagree again. I think that it's not cold war mentality anymore, I think it's a different kind of apprehension. I think many western journalists regard Russia as the big and powerful unknown, it's not the Enemy anymore, yet it's not Western. The country's importance can not be overlooked, whether it is politics or art or science - it's unfamiliar, hence the apprehension, and first rule of defending of an apprehensive feeling is condescendence. Witness the buying and star-studding of Chelsea Football Club by Abramovich - who in the world could've guessed 10 years ago that a Russian (Jew ) can come to London, by a premier football club for 100 million euros, add another 40 million in players and treat all of it like pocket change? The Brits are in uproar (well, except the Chelsea fans ), but everything would be nice and neat if that was George Soros.

I understand where you are coming from - I've had my share of these arguments with the ignorant, but trust me, you will find a much more educated, interesting crowd on this website - so tread lightly and don't be so hot-headed. People don't post here to offend (see Alejandro's signature ). And by the way, welcome to tFS

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiffany+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:27 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tiffany @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:27 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-strawberry daiquiri@Apr 12th, 2004 - 10:26 am
Wow, they look good enough to eat..
lol they do [/b][/quote]
they do, don't they? the story and the cartoon are so adorable! that's one thing i love about russian cartoons (the soviet era ones), they are so cute and morally right - they teach good lessons to kids. Having a 3-month old, I'm stacking up on all of these cartoons!!!

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Sugo
Do I have to explain that it's implied or maybe you will think about it for 10 secs ?
m hm
Conversation over!

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12-04-2004
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faust, Sugo: It's a bit surprising to learn that Karlsson på taket is so popular in Russia!

Of course I grew up with Astrid Lindgren's stories, but I'm always surprised to learn how universal her appeal seems to be!

Me and my twin had Drutten dolls, and our mother made us a crocodile... Sort of like Jena, but not quite. My brother still has it, actually!

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by faust+Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:33 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(faust @ Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:33 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Quote:
Originally posted by Softee@Apr 12th, 2004 - 4:13 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-faust
Quote:
@Apr 12th, 2004 - 2:14 pm
I think it's more fair to compare how the same stratas of society dress in different countries (i.e. rich in US and Russia, middle-class in US and Russia, etc).

Yes, I agree it would be more accurate.
But the article talks about how Russians are dressing (or starting to dress) in general, doesn't it?
And what I meant by propaganda, is that the Western world had not yet switched from it's cold war mentality, a lot of jounalists are still operating on the anti-soviet propaganda mode...
Hmm, I hate to disagree again. I think that it's not cold war mentality anymore, I think it's a different kind of apprehension. I think many western journalists regard Russia as the big and powerful unknown, it's not the Enemy anymore, yet it's not Western. The country's importance can not be overlooked, whether it is politics or art or science - it's unfamiliar, hence the apprehension, and first rule of defending of an apprehensive feeling is condescendence. Witness the buying and star-studding of Chelsea Football Club by Abramovich - who in the world could've guessed 10 years ago that a Russian (Jew ) can come to London, by a premier football club for 100 million euros, add another 40 million in players and treat all of it like pocket change? The Brits are in uproar (well, except the Chelsea fans ), but everything would be nice and neat if that was George Soros.

I understand where you are coming from - I've had my share of these arguments with the ignorant, but trust me, you will find a much more educated, interesting crowd on this website - so tread lightly and don't be so hot-headed. People don't post here to offend (see Alejandro's signature ). And by the way, welcome to tFS [/b][/quote]
faust
I think that post cold war mentality is mixed with xenophobia. Sometimes it's hard to tell which one is acting out... But the sad part is that people don't want to know, it's a lot easier to spit an article like that than to do some research.
I'm sorry, but I see your example with Abramovich, as rather irrelevant. A lot of Western companies have their posessions in Russia as well, that's just int'l finance.
The uproar of the British public, once again, shows their zenophobia. I wonder if it would be OK, if Abramovich went to school in England (just like Greek Soros did)... It's funny, really...

& thanx for the welcome.

softgrey
You think it's paranoid? Watch CNN, keeping in mind how Americans stereotype other nations, including Russians. You'll see a lot of stereotypes, a lot of negativity, and exaggerations. If you keep your mind open to this idea, you might just see how many ignorant reports and articles (like the one in question) are out there...

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12-04-2004
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ignorance is one thing and propaganda is another...you said propaganda...which is far more serious because it implies intentional deception of the public...as opposed to ignorance which is just lazy, sloppy reporting...

you're backtracking now...

but to a certain extent...isn't all media propaganda...to a certain extent...doesn't everyone have their own agenda?...

i've just accepted it and take everything with a grain of salt...including what you're saying...

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12-04-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Softee@Apr 12th, 2004 - 11:06 pm
You think it's paranoid? Watch CNN, keeping in mind how Americans stereotype other nations, including Russians. You'll see a lot of stereotypes, a lot of negativity, and exaggerations. If you keep you mind open to this idea, you might just see how many ignorant reports and articles (like the one in question) are out there...
I'm not an American, and I have to agree with you that anything outside the US is often stereotyped by American medias like CNN!

This doesn't change the fact that you seem to be a bit overly sensitive here...

Sorry, Softee, that's the way I see it!

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12-04-2004
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softgrey
I said both.
It's such a drag explaining these simple truths, but there is such a thing as propaganda mentality. People have been fed up with the idea that Soviets and Russians are bad for a very long time, which is why they still think this way... They're comfortable with it, and they don't want to adjust their ideas, which taps into the laziness and ignorance part...

tott
Yes, I am sensitive to this topic..., which kinda goes over the boundaries of fashion... Oops, i'm talking politics here...
Anyway...
Peace

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