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30-12-2005
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Going to get answers is where im going with this
There is just waaaaaay too much disinformation and myths about modeling and i don't see why people try to make it so unclear.

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30-12-2005
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I wouldn't put much weight on who or who isn't scouted. If you look like a supermodel and live in a big city, there's a good chance you'll be scouted at some point, but at the same time I think a lot of the girls who are scouted aren't model material. Just look at how many people in this thread have been scouted. It's kind of astounding. I've got to believe only a small proportion of them have any potential.

I also think a lot of it is arbitrary. I know two girls from NYC. One of them is about 5'6" with a beautiful face and a slender, curvy figure. The other is 5'9" with a plain, vaguely attractive face and a stick-like figure. The beautiful girl is always joking that whenever they go out together, her friend is scouted but not her. Obviously, those three inches and extra 15 pounds or so make a huge difference because there's no comparison between the two in terms of prettiness.

I also know an Asian girl who claims to have been scouted many times, and believe me when I say, she is NOT model material. One on the right:


Also, keep in mind that a lot of it is luck. If Jessica Stam hadn't stopped to get coffee at a Tim Horton's near IMG's Canada headquarters when she was 15, would she have ever been discovered? Probably not.


Last edited by model_mom; 31-12-2005 at 11:13 AM.
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30-12-2005
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photocredit fotki. Her photo is from a public album she posted.


Last edited by marqueemoon; 30-12-2005 at 08:58 AM.
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30-12-2005
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That girl may have just been scouted by dodgy agencies, and not "real" ones. Jessica Stam wasnt actually scouted by IMG since they dont have a Canadian office, she was scouted by International Model Management, a small agency that houses Andi Muise too, from then on she was brought to new york and was with New York Models, but her career didnt take off until she went to IMG.

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30-12-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbestfriend
That girl may have just been scouted by dodgy agencies, and not "real" ones. Jessica Stam wasnt actually scouted by IMG since they dont have a Canadian office, she was scouted by International Model Management, a small agency that houses Andi Muise too, from then on she was brought to new york and was with New York Models, but her career didnt take off until she went to IMG.
Yeah, you're right about Stam. My bad. I still say she wouldn't have been scouted if it weren't for that chance opportunity. She doesn't look like a model at first glance.

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31-12-2005
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how about because you are in a rural area and don't get out much,

FYI, there are some models that have lived in more remote areas of S.A., Europe and Africa than that of Rural America , where they have been discovered/scouted by reputable photographers and agents ...past and present.

….or not in a location where scouting occurs?!

A girl can be scouted/discovered in the jungles of Brazil , just as a girl can be scouted on a mountain biking lodge.

‘scouting’ does NOT station itself in one area. And if they do I wouldn’t heed their calling, for the most part. I’d be more cautious if that.

Example: You could be eating at a restaurant or food shopping and an agent/booker from a big named agency may scout you. Or you could be on a flight to god-knows where and you could be approached by someone working for Ralph Lauren or Vogue-Paris or EVEN in this forum ( )…or most recently in high school sports venue. You just don’t know where, when and how or even IF.

or how about timing?

Who says there’s timing? If it happens , IT happens. You don’t time these things. Just like you don’t time if, when and where you’ll win lotto.

let's talk about the models, scouted or not, who waited years for their big break to occur. Up until that point, they had little validation that they were model material. Gisele certainly waited her turn.

First of all where do you come of with this validation thing you keep speaking of? If you are a working model than you’re a model material….however, big or small. Gisele’s career took off when she (I believe) was cast as a Victoria Secret model … that wasn’t very long to achieve. LOL! First of all she was very young! And is STILL very young (technically speaking). You don’t become an overnight success. Not unless you’re Brooke Shields. Hahaha!

… Anyhoo, Gisele is ONLY 23 or 24 NOW- and she’s been doing Victoria Secret for a long time… she’s a veteran! It’s not like she waited forever to achieve her status.

Heidi Klum was the same way. She shot to fame when she was featured more than once in Sports Illustrated. And quadrupled her fame when she was cast at Victoria’s Secret. Both were young and consistently working before gaining stardom.


There are so many variables as to why someone who is very much model material would never be approached.


Obviously you sound very young and naïve. You have no clue about the industry… the OTHER side of the modeling industry.

Like I said, pretty is NOT the ONLY criteria to be a model. Period.

So many people cover themselves up when they go out that you can't even tell their gender. How can one get scouted when one can't even be identified?

Huh? Who said there’s a scouting season?

[For a trained eye you can basically tell the body-type. Fashion and measurements IS their expertise , this in speaking of reputable agent and/or scout, photographer or even a designer IF they do approach a girl.]


Further, those that have been approached are often told they are good and model material--yea, model material for a particular market, not for ELLE.


Ok, now I know you’re very young. This is the many fault of wannabe models out there (preferably American girls) who have followed the industry but only the SURFACE. Being a model material is not only High End fashion. It’s ALL aspects of fashion, whether it be low end (Kmart, Sears, Macy’s, JC Penney’s and the likes) or high end (Vogue, Elle, Glamour, Bazaar, Cosmo, W, Style, Allure and the likes). You’re so fixated on being in Jane, Allure, Vogue etc. That’s why many American girls don’t succeed. They tend to focus on the top. You all think getting signed in any agency (big or small) you’ll get the sweet jobs…immediately. NOT! It depends where your look is more inclined. Period.

And furthermore, in most cases a girl and/or guy is only approached from big name agencies for high fashion criteria. Most of the time, walk-ins/send-ins IF and when they do get assignments/jobs tend to be low-end. Only the select few get the coveted assignments because they are more marketable for the high profiled client.

you're still saying to listen to anyone reputable.

Hell yeah! ‘nuff said.

Well reputable could be the client looking for someone to pose in a business suit for JCPenny. JCPenny models don't do vogue or SIllustrated. I could never see Moss in Sears ads.

AGAIN, you tend to JUST focus on the TOP of the pyramid. You don’t get hired for TOP positions of ANY company without experience or marketability nor do you shoot to the top of the ladder, for that matter. LIFE doesn’t work that way. And with modeling it’s STILL a job regardless if you get more assignments for JC Penney and Kmart than that of H&M and YSL.

Too many girls , especially the young ones often read Vogue, Bazaar, elle and all those cool/glamorous/chic magazines that it clouds their perception of modeling. That’s why they are not as successful as those dime a dozen discoveries who either has no clue what fashion is let alone modeling or who never wanted to be a model in the first place.

Is it a good idea for them to go around thinking they're Vogue-eligible just because they did some fashion work?

First of all ‘fashion work’ is a general term. There’s so many facets of fashion. And no it’s not good thinking that you’re Vogue-eligible when all your assignments consists of low-end fashion and no-frills designers. It just means you’re look is only geared to that style.

So i really am not sensing how what you're saying is valid.

Because you have no clue about the other side of modeling.

oh, and "Big noses, long faces, eyes asymetrical etc...... to put it bluntly it wasn't eye candy" are actually quite common in high fashion.


It’s a cycle. It wasn’t as common now as before. Only recently do they include this kind of look and tend to focus on the clothes and less on the girls, IF the designer wants it that way. But like I said that kind of look is a trend. Classic beauty is always consistent.

Nose:, gisele again.

Now, you’re nitpicking. Gisele’s overall beauty is classic.

long: …but namely heidi klum.

Heidi Klum’s face is NOT long. She’s eye-candy (to men) and again she’s considered a classic beauty.


I fail to see any factual data or examples backing up your points.


Because your arguments are naively assessed by you. You have no clue about the industry.


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Last edited by smartarse; 31-12-2005 at 01:22 AM.
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31-12-2005
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Excellent post from someone who knows what they are talking about. Karma for you.

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31-12-2005
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I disagree with most of what you said, smartarse. You see the success stories, but not the potential models who never had the luck to be discovered. The idea that "Wherever you are, THEY WILL FIND YOU" is ridiculous. You make model scouts sound like nineteenth century explorers in safari hats groping their way through jungles to find the next Gisele. There are a handful of models who were discovered in rural settings, but the chances of that happening are extremely unlikely. Usually those girls are approached when they take trips to the "big city."

You act like scouts have some secret knowledge that we all lack. I seriously doubt that. They don't know any more about what makes a model than regular posters on tfs. I bet most of us could find model potential as well as a "trained scout." The job involves a lot of patience and traveling I'm sure, but the skill it involves is rudimentary.

Besides, in a sense scouts themselves determine the definition of model material. They pick the pool of models that designers ultimately choose from and set the standards for what later scouts look for. The definition of model material isn't rigid or quantifiable. Past certain weight, height and age standards, it's very subjective and dependent on current trends.

From what I can tell, these are the only consistent standards for a model:
5'8'+
very thin and proportional with long limbs
longish neck
young looking
smooth skin
eyes not close-set
medium to high forehead
well-defined, clean features

and there are even exceptions to those rules...

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01-01-2006
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Excuse me but model scouts do travel all over the world and do not just stand on street corners of "big cities" waiting for the next big thing to walk by. They may approach them because of their looks or beauty but you can bet they will search deeper to find out more about the personality and their desire to model before they sign them. We all like to think that we could do their job and that all it takes is a good eye but you are sadly mistaken.

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01-01-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by model_mom
Excuse me but model scouts do travel all over the world and do not just stand on street corners of "big cities" waiting for the next big thing to walk by. They may approach them because of their looks or beauty but you can bet they will search deeper to find out more about the personality and their desire to model before they sign them. We all like to think that we could do their job and that all it takes is a good eye but you are sadly mistaken.
Most discovery stories occur in cities and other locations where there are lots of people. I've heard scouts themselves say they typically visit places that attract big crowds like subways, concerts and large fairs. I doubt they would waste their time scouting out farms in Iowa. You've also failed to convince me that it takes more than a good eye, decent social skills and lots of patience to be a modelling scout.

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02-01-2006
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marqueemoon, I disagree with mostly everything you’ve argued. Obviously, you have no understanding nor concept of the industry and what entails.

You see the success stories, but not the potential models who never had the luck to be discovered.

AGAIN. You’re not comprehending anything of what I have said. What ‘potential models’ who never had the luck to be discovered you’re referring to? You have no understanding nor concept of what ‘potential model’ is. And especially, you are not experience nor an expert in the field to even have make this argument.

FYI: Barbizon Schools (for example) had ‘wannabe models’ in the age group of pre-teen and 25+ who THOUGHT they have potential. However, 99.9% DO NOT. The 1% who get some jobs are child models in the age range of 8 months to 13 yr. olds if that.

The idea that "Wherever you are, THEY WILL FIND YOU" is ridiculous. You make model scouts sound like nineteenth century explorers in safari hats groping their way through jungles to find the next Gisele.

AGAIN. You have no understanding nor the concept of the business. Especially, you do not have the slightest clue of what these people are capable of as to when and how they discover “the next best thing”. Furthermore, I never said it is always the case they find girls in remote areas. I have pointed out that IT HAS HAPPENED and they will never rule out exotic places to ‘discover’ a potential girl. NEVER. They LOVE to keep their options open and they should. Also, they don’t have a planned schedule as to when, where and how. Discoveries by the professionals in the industry often occur in their own time.

There are a handful of models who were discovered in rural settings, but the chances of that happening are extremely unlikely.

I have NEVER said it is always the case. I have said IT HAS HAPPENED AND will continue to happen if it is chance encounter.

Usually those girls are approached when they take trips to the "big city."I

have NEVER said girls or boys have never been approached when they happened to be visiting metropolitan cities. Infact, I have mentioned a friend and a relative that have been approached and scouted by Ford Models and Next and Elite as facts that there are LEGIT ‘scouts’ amongst the cons.

You act like scouts have some secret knowledge that we all lack.

AGAIN. You have not been comprehending on what I’ve been stressing. I often speak of model agents, photographers , fashion mag staffers and the likes who have or could have approached/scout a girl who hasn’t done modeling. You and many girls in this forum use the word ‘scout’ so loosely and neglect to understand that the word has a broad meaning, as well.

They don't know any more about what makes a model than regular posters on tfs.

AGAIN. You have not been comprehending on what I have stated. With that comment, you’re referring to shady ‘scouts’ and cons.

I bet most of us could find model potential as well as a "trained scout."

You are not experience in the field to make this accessment.

The job involves a lot of patience and traveling I'm sure…

This is the ONLY THING we agreed on.

…but the skill it involves is rudimentary.

You are not experienced nor an expert in the field to make this judgement.

Besides, in a sense scouts themselves determine the definition of model material..

AGAIN. I have noticed that many posters here are ignorant and naïve on what the word ‘scout’ mean.

They pick the pool of models that designers ultimately choose from.

Now, you’re talking about the booker.


Most discovery stories occur in cities and other locations where there are lots of people.

Of course, there have been occasions that this has happened.


I've heard scouts themselves say they typically visit places that attract big crowds like subways, concerts and large fairs.

I never said they didn’t. But than again, these areas aren’t the only places they’ve looked.

I doubt they would waste their time scouting out farms in Iowa.

You are absolutely wrong with this argument. FACT: it has happened.

You've also failed to convince me that it takes more than a good eye, decent social skills and lots of patience to be a modelling scout.

Only those that have no understanding and concept of the modeling industry would say this.


The definition of model material isn't rigid or quantifiable. Past certain weight, height and age standards, it's very subjective and dependent on current trends.

Only those that have no understanding and concept of the modeling industry would say this.

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Last edited by smartarse; 02-01-2006 at 12:36 AM.
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02-01-2006
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What makes you such an expert? Just because some idiot offered you a scouting job, I'm supposed to bow down to your vast knowledge of the industry?

Furthermore, you knock down my arguments without explaining why: "Only those that have no understanding and concept of the modeling industry would say this." Wow, that really convinced me.

I don't pretend to have some secret knowledge of the inner workings and politics of the industry and would be totally lost as a booker juggling clients. But everything I've read suggests that being a scout doesn't involve more than having a sharp eye, a good sense of what models look like, decent social skills and lots of patience. You've failed to explain what I'm leaving out. Please, elaborate. In fact, I remember reading an interview with a legit scout who said she had very little experience in fashion before getting her job.

I've looked at thousands of magazines, flipped through the rosters of hundreds of agencies, and I have a keen eye for faces. I know what a model looks like, thank you. I doubt being a scout would embue me with some new insight that I'm now lacking.

You’re not comprehending anything of what I have said. What ‘potential models’ who never had the luck to be discovered you’re referring to? You have no understanding nor concept of what ‘potential model’ is. And especially, you are not experience nor an expert in the field to even have make this argument.

No, my dear: you're not comprehending. The whole point is that we wouldn't know about the unlucky ones with potential because they were never discovered. Do you understand now or do I have to clarify further?

Who are you to say I have no concept of what "model potential" is?
Again, list your credentials because I'd love to know what makes you such an expert.

FYI: Barbizon Schools (for example) had ‘wannabe models’ in the age group of pre-teen and 25+ who THOUGHT they have potential. However, 99.9% DO NOT. The 1% who get some jobs are child models in the age range of 8 months to 13 yr. olds if that.

Do you think I'm an idiot? Everybody and their mother knows Barbizon is bullshit. Besides, there's a difference between some grandiose teen and her parents thinking she has potential and an unbiased observer evaluating the potential of another person.

You are absolutely wrong with this argument. FACT: it has happened.
Love how you don't offer any counterevidence. "No, you're wrong!"

If it happened, it probably did by accident. Maybe a scout was visiting her mom in Iowa and happened to check out the neighbor's daughter. My point is that a scout would never go to an extremely remote, sparsely habited locale with the express purpose of looking for girls. Give me one example of this ever happening.

I have NEVER said it is always the case. I have said IT HAS HAPPENED AND will continue to happen if it is chance encounter.
I think you're a bit confused here. I don't disagree with you that it has happened, but my point is that it's much less likely to happen. So the chances of a girl in a rural setting being discovered are far less likely than her chances if she lives in a city. I think we can both agree on that.


Now, you’re talking about the booker.

Okay, the scout picks the pool that the booker dips into that the designers dip into. Got it?

The definition of model material isn't rigid or quantifiable. Past certain weight, height and age standards, it's very subjective and dependent on current trends.

Only those that have no understanding and concept of the modeling industry would say this.

All I've read about model scouts runs counter to what you say. Whenever scouts are asked about what they look for in models, they'll offer a few vague adjectives like "tall, smooth skin, high cheekbones" and say that the rest is hard to define or quantify -- exactly the point I made. If you don't believe me, I can link to specific interviews with reputable scouts

Flip through the history of Vogue and it's clear that the face of fashion has changed many times over the decades. There are certain constant features that I mentioned, but everything else is in flux.


Last edited by model_mom; 02-01-2006 at 08:54 PM.
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02-01-2006
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I couldn’t have made myself more clearer than I already have. You obviously are clouded by your naivete of the whole industry. Model mom made a valid point and yet your counter argue that as well. It boggles my mind how kids in here think they know a lot about the industry when they DO NOT. I couldn’t stressed more that many girls in here are delusional about the industry.

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02-01-2006
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^ ^

My point is that a scout would never go to an extremely remote, sparsely habited locale with the express purpose of looking for girls. Give me one example of this ever happening.

I don’t ever recall I have said they risk their lives to discover a model. LMFAO! I think I made myself clear in prior posts.

And oh, I thought you said you know the industry and its politics? Obviously you do not, since you clearly have no knowledge of such things has ever happened. Your assumption has clouded your perception of an occupation you do not understand nor have a concept of. Then again, ignorance is bliss. Lol.



I don't disagree with you that it has happened, but my point is that it's much less likely to happen. So the chances of a girl in a rural setting being discovered are far less likely than her chances if she lives in a city. I think we can both agree on that.

IF you’re referring to being discovered as opposed to walk-ins/send-ins it’s basically the same, IMO.


All I've read about model scouts runs counter to what you say. Whenever scouts are asked about what they look for in models, they'll offer a few vague adjectives like "tall, smooth skin, high cheekbones" and say that the rest is hard to define or quantify -- exactly the point I made. If you don't believe me, I can link to specific interviews with reputable scouts.


Someone with the knowledge of the business knows there’s more to that statement.


Flip through the history of Vogue and it's clear that the face of fashion has changed many times over the decades. There are certain constant features that I mentioned, but everything else is in flux.

I never said face of fashion remain stagnant. However, classic beauty is, regardless how fashion has changed in terms of beauty will always be consistent.

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Last edited by smartarse; 02-01-2006 at 01:31 PM.
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Huh? I clearly said that I don't have much knowledge of the inner workings of the industry and its politics. "I don't pretend to have some secret knowledge of the inner workings and politics of the industry and would be totally lost as a booker juggling clients." Could I be any more explicit? Maybe you should read my posts more carefully in the future.

Yet again, you've dismissed my arguments without giving any counterevidence.

Here I go again:

1) Please list your credentials.

2) "Someone with the knowledge of the business knows there’s more to that statement." Elaborate on what more there is, please.

3)
I reiterate: I don't understand why you would need to be an expert in the politics of the industry as a scout. You've failed to explain why I'm wrong about this. I'll give you one more chance.

4) "It boggles my mind how kids in here think they know a lot about the industry when they DO NOT. I couldn’t stressed more that many girls in here are delusional about the industry."
I'm not a kid, thanks. How old are you? I don't know what would be worse: you being a thirteen-year-old who pretends to be an expert in the fashion industry and acts like a little condescending brat, or an adult who has the intelligence and writings skills of a thirteen-year-old.



I don’t ever recall I have said they risk their lives to discover a model. LMFAO! I think I made myself clear in prior posts.

I don't recall saying that either. I said that a scout would never go to an extremely remote location with the express purpose of finding girls. Got it? Again, maybe you should read my posts more carefully.

I couldn’t have made myself more clearer than I already have.
Well, one way is by learning to speak English and not say things like "more clearer." Just a tip.



Last edited by marqueemoon; 02-01-2006 at 04:45 PM.
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