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28-02-2011
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There is something I really don't understand...people that are saying "I'm black, I need to see someone I can relate to on my magazines"
Well...I personally can't relate to Liya Kedebe who's african, Jourdan Dunn who's english Arlenis Sosa who's dominican, Joan Smalls who's american (OK portorican but it's still America, a part of it as far as I know) Emanuela de Paula who's brazilian (and only half black)... because I'm not from the same country and don't have the same culture !
Recently on Roberta Narcisco's thread someone said she was kind of a new Jourdan Dunn and someone else said he confused her into Léomie Anderson... but no, HELL NO people ! The girls have like NOTHING in common ! Not from the same continent, different countries so I assume not the same culture (sometimes it's not the case), different faces and most important in this subject: different skintone ! They might come from different backgrounds, don't have the same history...

So how can you compare them to each other, and how can you relate yourself to them all ?

Really, when you saw the finale at Lanvin last season, because you are 'black" you felt like all these women where beautiful, all these women where like you, all these women were more your "sisters" than any other model...?

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Last edited by papillote; 28-02-2011 at 05:15 AM.
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28-02-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillote View Post
There is something I really don't understand...people that are saying "I'm black, I need to see someone I can relate to on my magazines"
Well...I personally can't relate to Liya Kedebe who's african, Jourdan Dunn who's english Arlenis Sosa who's dominican, Joan Smalls who's american (OK portorican but it's still America, a part of it as far as I know) Emanuela de Paula who's brazilian (and only half black)... because I'm not from the same country and don't have the same culture !
Recently on Roberta Narcisco's thread someone said she was kind of a new Jourdan Dunn and someone else said he confused her into Léomie Anderson... but no, HELL NO people ! The girls have like NOTHING in common ! Not from the same continent, different countries so I assume not the same culture (sometimes it's not the case), different faces and most important in this subject: different skintone ! They might come from different backgrounds, don't have the same history...

So how can you compare them to each other, and how can you relate yourself to them all ?

Really, when you saw the finale at Lanvin last season, because you are 'black" you felt like all these women where beautiful, all these women where like you, all these women were more your "sisters" than any other model...?
Because at the end of the day, they are BLACK, no matter where they come from. No matter how light or how dark it's great to see a black face. Thedy have being black in common and the sand the world sees them and sees a "black woman", not Puerto Rico(I've never met anyone from there that call themselves American) or France even America. Black is Beautiful

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02-07-2011
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From Anais Mali's thread:

Quote:
Lagerfeld rarely books black girls for the runway and NEVER for campaigns.
Quote:
Except celebrities every now And d again. He really needs to keep up with the times! Smh...
Quote:
I don't see no sarcasm here, i think the comment was only pointing that Karl Lagerfeld is a bit hypocrit in this, always hanging around with black celebrities, but never booking a black girl for his runway shows.
But Brandi Quinone did a Chanel campaign in the 90's. I think Karl is only about marketing
Quote:
i love karl & everything he's done with chanel but he really needs to get with it... the last black girl in a chanel ad was brandi in the 90s??? nowadays there are a bunch of amazing black girls & i think anais should be at the top of the list. i think her look exemplifies the epitome of what chanel stands for
Quote:
karl used to if memory serves me correctly... with girls like pat cleveland, alek wek, yasmin warsame, and rarely liya, jeneil and jourdan. i think yasmin was the last black or african model with her contract for chanel's allure fragrance.

anais would be a wonderful representative for chanel. and karl obviously has the final word on casting, but i'm sure other people have influence on him as well. such a shame.
I am not addressing Anais in particular, although I think that she is absolutely lovely, but it is bizarre to me that the cast for the Chanel shows are so freaking large and yet a black model has not walked for Chanel for quite a few seasons, I think the last time was when Jourdan walked the cruise show which was in 2009 (I think). Although interestingly, back in the day, Chanel has a decent track record on this front. Also it should be noted that Asian models have been cast in recent Chanel shows, but again what I find bothersome is that the cast is so large for Chanel and there are quite a few black models to choose from these days... scratching my head.


P.S.
Armani also sticks out on this front.


Last edited by agee; 02-07-2011 at 07:07 AM.
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03-07-2011
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^There was an interview where Karl Lagerfeld discusses race in fashion with model Noemie Lenoir. Basically Karl said that there is no racism in fashion, which Noemie disagreed with. He then later went on to say that the reason why there aren't that many black models on the runway is because black people are not interested in fashion and that there weren't many black models that fell into the "star category". Noemie argued otherwise.



It's in French but there is an English summary of what was said in the description box under the video and this site below translates some of the highlights into English as well.
http://charcoal-ink.com/2010/04/10/v...sm-in-fashion/


So that's Karl's explanation as to why there aren't many black models on the runways. I personally don't buy much of what he is saying. He just sounds out of touch when he claims racism doesn't exist in fashion. And there are definitely black models out there that do have the "star power" but because they are black they are going to face a lot more difficulties getting to the top.

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03-07-2011
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Thanks for the video, but like you stated that makes no sense, even if, for the sake of argument, I agreed with what he said about there being no stars. Chanel usually casts fifty plus models* in their shows, and there are black models, note the plural, that are comparable to the models cast in recent Chanel shows. Yeah Chanel is Chanel, but their standards for runway are not higher than Givenchy, Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Dolce & Gabbana, Pucci, Prada and others.

ETA:
* IIRC there may have been a cast even much larger than that.


Last edited by agee; 03-07-2011 at 07:06 PM.
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03-07-2011
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The diversity is simply not diverse regardless how you calculate it. It's too implied and innate to most fashion designers to only hire white models and it's almost taboo or faux pas to talk about in public. <I'm referring to four major fashion shows here.>

Some would add a Black or Asian model to make it "diverse" so as to avoid bad publicity or fashion review..

Sorry but that's just my two cents on this matter..

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Last edited by Vladita; 03-07-2011 at 09:54 PM.
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04-07-2011
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I believe the tide is changing. At the menswear shows I think there was a considerable shift in the amount of black boys this season and it wasn't just like a blip sort of thing I think alot of shows had atleast one.

I think at the end of the day(and I believe I've stated this before) that a white model is used because everyone at one point or another has been forced to identify with "white" as being default. I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across like I want but you hear people say oh she's a minority this or she's a black this, or blah blah blah, well when you strip labels of that prefix most people think of it as white which is what I mean by default.

Because of this in the eyes of a casting agent or booker or anyone else choosing a model, you're going to get alot more usage out of this white model since everyone can identify with her instead of using this black model that some people won't identify with.

As time has gone on I think people have begun to change though because it's become more about this mindset, this entire lifestyle that one evokes as opposed to image alone and so instead of identifying say with the color of the person's skin alone they can identify with this style of life which causes them to then in turn identify with the model and the associating brand.

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04-07-2011
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I believe that the tide is changing as well -- in a very positive way overall - not quickly, but gradually and slowly.

Bravo to everyone who supports diverse models. It is literally because of you that they are able to succeed even a little.

Karl is talking a lot of nonsense. It makes me lose all respect. I would argue that many, many, many girls that walk Chanel runways nowadays do not have STAR power. Yes, Freja and Nat Poly have star power (to some) but they are part of a handful. What about the countless nameless pale blonde models (no offence to anyone pale and blonde, nothing wrong with that) that walk Chanel every season, only to be forgotten immediately. Give me a break.

Quote:
Because at the end of the day, they are BLACK, no matter where they come from. No matter how light or how dark it's great to see a black face. Thedy have being black in common and the sand the world sees them and sees a "black woman", not Puerto Rico(I've never met anyone from there that call themselves American) or France even America. Black is Beautiful
I agree. A lot of people argue that race is a social construct. What does this mean? It means that in some places, i.e. America or even North America - you are the race that you are VIEWED as.

If you are VIEWED as Black, you may identify yourself as Black -- everyone else does anyway.
Racially I am 50% Asian, but many people VIEW me as Asian. It's very easy for me to identify myself as Asian, rather than white (not many white people would consider me white. Or, they act very shock to learn I am part white. You get the picture.)

Halle Berry is half white but maybe 70% of Americans would view her as Black.
Same with Obama. (These are just hypotheticals.) You are going to be treated black in many cases of life, there are many instances in life where people simply don't have the time to get to know your entire racial makeup before judging.
Therefore, perhaps Halle and Obama, in their minds, they might walk through life identifying as Black People. Even with the obvious knowledge that they are other things too, racially.

In conclusion, it is great for a black woman to see other black models (regardless of country of origin!) because this woman will feel like she's looking at a woman "like" her.

When I look at Liu Wen I probably have very little in common with Liu Wen. But what do we HAVE in common? Most of the world will glance at our face and see YELLOW/ASIAN. If someone like Liu can be a supermodel, it means that my "type" of beauty/look (Type as designated by most of the world) is seen as acceptable.


Last edited by mint condish; 04-07-2011 at 07:28 PM.
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04-07-2011
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Quote:
mint condish;9342563]I believe that the tide is changing as well -- in a very positive way overall - not quickly, but gradually and slowly.
I appreciate your optimism but don't you think that the pace's too slow? Like I've read a number of articles about diversity in fashion but when the show starts, it does not translate at all.. I'm not expecting a show full of Asian or Black models but looking at it in a general perspective, it's as if they're just obliged or forced to hire a couple of non-white models for the sake of getting good reviews for their brand and for their image not to provoke racism related issues.

These are international brands so the representation should be, ideally, diverse.

Or, do they proportion the number of models with the percentage of sales they're getting from a specific region?

For example, European brand X has this sales per geo:

Asian region - 30% sales
North American branches - 20% sales
African region - 10% sales
European stores - 40% share

With this percentage assuming there are only ten models to be hired, these will become the breakdown:

White - 7 models
Asian - 2 or maybe 1 (I highly doubt they'll cast three Asian models.)
Black - 1 or maybe 2 (Since this group usually provokes media in pushing diversity in fashion, there's a possibility of a 3 and no Asian models will be included.)

But of course, this is just a hypothesis and simply a satire.

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Last edited by Vladita; 04-07-2011 at 10:05 PM.
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05-07-2011
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Interesting thread and while I donot have many statistics and numbers to share I do have a few thoughts.

I also agree that Karl is talking like an old who is not willing to change his views... irrespective, as more and more diversity comes into the revenue split, labels will start paying more attention to regions. We are already going there and I doubt we are more than a decade away where the trend may even be opposite.

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06-07-2011
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Still no significantly relevant Asian male model...
Will it happen in my lifetime?

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06-07-2011
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^ Paolo Rolden

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06-07-2011
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^Never heard of him.

I know there IS a tiny amount of Asian male models (mostly thrown in to "diversify"), but what I was asking was are any of them (or anyone not discovered yet) gonna make it to the top... 15 or top 20. I'd be very satisfied with just seeing an Asian male reach Liu Wen's current status. But I'm not holding my breath.

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06-07-2011
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http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f12...den-95109.html

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06-07-2011
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Haha, I did check it out when you first mentioned him, thanks
But I'm just saying he doesn't seem that famous or desired by designers.

I guess if I were to be completely honest and frank I just wish to see at least one Asian male on the Top 50 models.com list... is that so silly to ask for? I dunno. And I know, I've heard before that the models.com list wasn't really a "reputable" list (or is it now?) and that I shouldn't be hung up on it, but I don't think I'm asking for too much, really.

Although, I think I know the reason why we don't see any famous Asian male "super"models (actually it's just a psychological/cultural theory), but that just goes into an entirely different territory of what this topic/thread was not really meant for (or is it? I dunno lol)
There are a lot of Asian female "super"models springing up, but the amount of Asian male "super"models isn't consistent with the ascension of their female counterpart... which is... disappointing, to say the least.

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