How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Supporting Cast / The ETC's of the Modeling World
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
14-03-2013
  121
fashion elite
 
LabelWhore4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceFashionista View Post
Pretty sad, but it is up to designers too. What do you think they should do lets say each show has 40 looks average do you think they should pick 10 whites 10 blacks 10 asians 10 other ? I mean really. I understand diversity, but I think a model should get booked on her own merits not because of her color whatever color she may be not because people think it should be fair. Life isn't fair unfortunately.
Posted via Mobile Device
You could turn this argument around on all of the untalented white models who book 60 shows in a season because she happens to be white. You can't honestly believe that a show full of only white models happens because all of the talented girls who fit the brand all happen to be white.

__________________
There's Chanel Iman....... then there's everyone else.
  Reply With Quote
 
14-03-2013
  122
fashion elite
 
DanceFashionista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Miami
Gender: femme
Posts: 2,584
No I don't believe that I just don't know what the answer is for all this! I wish more shows showed diversity but if a designers want certain look and it is white as sad as it is who are we to judge? Their show their choice. I am sure people would be complaining if every show had majority black, asian, hispanic. I just don't see a happy medium. I don't like when they pick a token girl either. It should be based on talent. Maybe the designer sees something in those "boring white girls." They like..
Posted via Mobile Device

  Reply With Quote
14-03-2013
  123
V.I.P.
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Gender: homme
Posts: 11,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatherAnne View Post

And teaars, thank you, we can all voice our opinions and ignorant people will find counter-arguments, but numbers (cold hard facts) don't lie.
it is my pleasure! This is genuinely the only place where I can write about this and people actually care/understand, I will probably compile a list of the biggest shows in NYC, London, Milan, and Paris and put them on here at some point in the future.

  Reply With Quote
14-03-2013
  124
front row
 
theBlueRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Gender: femme
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceFashionista View Post
No I don't believe that I just don't know what the answer is for all this! I wish more shows showed diversity but if a designers want certain look and it is white as sad as it is who are we to judge? Their show their choice. I am sure people would be complaining if every show had majority black, asian, hispanic. I just don't see a happy medium. I don't like when they pick a token girl either. It should be based on talent. Maybe the designer sees something in those "boring white girls." They like..
Posted via Mobile Device
Maybe the designer harbors racist prejudices...
I don't understand how it can surprise people that a designer can be racist. Open up the newspaper, start reading city blogs, there's racism everywhere and it's surely in the fashion industry. The fashion industry isn't regulated like other industries so there's a greater chance that people can act upon their prejudices.

The reason why this thread exists is because racial diversity isn't a topic that is just "oh the designer should show more diversity" or "the designer should do whatever they feel interprets their collection." It's about a greater issue at large--it's a marketing issue which branches out into a societal issue.

And if you really want to talk about the merits of the model and the issues of race surrounding it--sorry, but there are a lot of models who happen to be white but do not have the merits to be modeling or a top model.
I've said this before and I will say it again, I have years of working in the industry and if you would like to know details you can always PM me. There's a saying in the industry that models of color have to be more perfect, more on top of their game, harder working and better all around models than their white counterparts. They have to pose better, walk better, have a better personality. They also have to have their physique on top of the game--imperfections not allowed. Yet, with white models, you see more leniency towards height, asymmetry, personality, big pores/clogged pores, physique, runway walks and things that don't belong on a agency's board like pigeoned toed girls, bow legged girls, knock kneed girls, etc.

So if anyone is to suggest that perhaps designers want, should or are casting based on a model's merits then more black models/asian models should be included in these shows as they have better walks, better physiques, better runway expressions , better skin clarity etc. But no, let's get the 5'7" bow legged girl from Denmark with yellow teeth, a pervasive blackhead on her forehead and bushy brows who can't walk and looks like the the last 15 girls you walked by on the street because SHE'S SO UNIQUE AND HAS THAT X-FACTOR!


Last edited by theBlueRider; 14-03-2013 at 01:11 PM.
  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  125
front row
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: nyc
Gender: homme
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBlueRider View Post
Maybe the designer harbors racist prejudices...
I don't understand how it can surprise people that a designer can be racist. Open up the newspaper, start reading city blogs, there's racism everywhere and it's surely in the fashion industry. The fashion industry isn't regulated like other industries so there's a greater chance that people can act upon their prejudices.

The reason why this thread exists is because racial diversity isn't a topic that is just "oh the designer should show more diversity" or "the designer should do whatever they feel interprets their collection." It's about a greater issue at large--it's a marketing issue which branches out into a societal issue.

And if you really want to talk about the merits of the model and the issues of race surrounding it--sorry, but there are a lot of models who happen to be white but do not have the merits to be modeling or a top model.
I've said this before and I will say it again, I have years of working in the industry and if you would like to know details you can always PM me. There's a saying in the industry that models of color have to be more perfect, more on top of their game, harder working and better all around models than their white counterparts. They have to pose better, walk better, have a better personality. They also have to have their physique on top of the game--imperfections not allowed. Yet, with white models, you see more leniency towards height, asymmetry, personality, big pores/clogged pores, physique, runway walks and things that don't belong on a agency's board like pigeoned toed girls, bow legged girls, knock kneed girls, etc.

So if anyone is to suggest that perhaps designers want, should or are casting based on a model's merits then more black models/asian models should be included in these shows as they have better walks, better physiques, better runway expressions , better skin clarity etc. But no, let's get the 5'7" bow legged girl from Denmark with yellow teeth, a pervasive blackhead on her forehead and bushy brows who can't walk and looks like the the last 15 girls you walked by on the street because SHE'S SO UNIQUE AND HAS THAT X-FACTOR!
I agree with you to some extent. However, there is actually more leniency toward black models when it comes to height and skin. Some of the top working black male and female models are shorter or taller than average. Taller: ajak deng, ataui deng, maria borges, Roberta narciso, nyasha matonhodze, januel williams, armando cabral, Fernando cabral, jourdan copeland. Shorter: corey baptiste, jeneil williams, jasmine tookes, tsheca white. Casting directors usually are more lenient with their height as they are unfortunately viewed as a separate entity from the rest of the white models walking in the shows with them. So they don't have as much pressure to fit the mold when it comes to height/body type. Also with skin, makeup artist say it is easier to hide the appearance of pores and blemishes on darker skin. So agency's and casting directors are more lenient with black models with imperfect skin.
Posted via Mobile Device

  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  126
fashion icon
 
Vladita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Makati City
Gender: homme
Posts: 3,180
Seeing those shows mentioned in the previous page, I'm glad Prada started to add colors in their casting. They used to be notorious in hiring only white models if I'm not mistaken.

__________________
Vlada l Sasha l Natasha l Natalia l Daria l Full of ahhs!
  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  127
fashion elite
 
Yendor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by intern22 View Post
I agree with you to some extent. However, there is actually more leniency toward black models when it comes to height and skin. Some of the top working black male and female models are shorter or taller than average. Taller: ajak deng, ataui deng, maria borges, Roberta narciso, nyasha matonhodze, januel williams, armando cabral, Fernando cabral, jourdan copeland. Shorter: corey baptiste, jeneil williams, jasmine tookes, tsheca white. Casting directors usually are more lenient with their height as they are unfortunately viewed as a separate entity from the rest of the white models walking in the shows with them. So they don't have as much pressure to fit the mold when it comes to height/body type. Also with skin, makeup artist say it is easier to hide the appearance of pores and blemishes on darker skin. So agency's and casting directors are more lenient with black models with imperfect skin.
Posted via Mobile Device
There are taller/shorter models of all ethnicities. But there are no black or asian Charlotte Frees allowed.

  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  128
front row
 
theBlueRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Gender: femme
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
There are taller/shorter models of all ethnicities. But there are no black or asian Charlotte Frees allowed.
Exactly!
Also, there is less of a chance of a model getting signed to an agency if she is black or asian and reminiscent of Lara Stone or Ashley Smith. If a black girl or an asian girl walks like Arizona Muse or Cara D, you know she will not be included in the show package.

In general, with high fashion, the taller the better. In my experience, designers and casting directors swoon over super tall girls (talking about 181cm++ I've literally seen a casting halt because a designer and casting director wanted to obsess over a 183 girl). Being super tall isn't as much of a taboo as people think because those are the girls who will most likely be opening and closing the shows in the most extravagant outfits. The only time a girl can be too tall is if she wants to branch out into the commercial world, in which 5'9"-5'10" is the ideal.
Intern22, you mentioned Jeneil, Jasmine Tookes and Tsheca. Jeneil and Tsheca are 5'9" flat. I've stood next to Jeneil many times and she is not short. Jasmine Tookes is 5'8" flat and very petite framed making her appear even shorter. But they fit within the agency requirements. They're not 5'6", 5'6.5", 5'7", 5'7.5" like a lot of white models agencies sign. On top of that, Jeneil, Jasmine and Tsheca have incredible physiques, some of the best in the industry.

Also, I don't know where you heard that about makeup artists talking about darker skin/black models. But you know that when black women or women with darker complexions break out, they are very prone to hyperpigmentation and that extremely difficult to cover and fade. They're also very prone to ashiness. Make up artists are less likely to use foundation and concealers on black models, especially darker skin black models, because many makeup brands simply do not carry dark enough shades (and it's even worse if the production is being sponsored by only one makeup brand). So they cannot have regular breakouts and hyperpigmentation--that will be so detrimental for their bookings. Oiliness and large pores are actually more prominent on dark skin because of the way it reflects light with the camera. I personally know a booker who is on top of the black models he reps to keep their skin in line. Have you seen Jasmine Tookes' complexion? It's one of the best in the industry. Same with the Asian models--look at Liu Wen, Sui He, Xiao Wen Ju, Chiharu, Ji Hye. They know they have to take care of themselves much more than their white counterparts and their agencies tell them that.


Last edited by theBlueRider; 15-03-2013 at 08:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  129
V.I.P.
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Gender: homme
Posts: 11,031
I'm currently thinking of making a show-list for Prada shows like I have on previous pages, I'm extremely bored right now so if anyone is interested, just say yes! x

  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  130
backstage pass
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Gender: homme
Posts: 922
How is the racial inequity prevalent in modeling different from what we see in society in general? It isn't. Until there is change in society in general -- when we get more people of color running Fortune 200 firms, on their boards, in government, in positions of power in media, etc. -- we should not expect fashion to break any ground in any significant way. It's not right, but it's realistic.

  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  131
front row
 
theBlueRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Gender: femme
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by woemwoem View Post
How is the racial inequity prevalent in modeling different from what we see in society in general? It isn't. Until there is change in society in general -- when we get more people of color running Fortune 200 firms, on their boards, in government, in positions of power in media, etc. -- we should not expect fashion to break any ground in any significant way. It's not right, but it's realistic.
I don't think the racial inequality in fashion is in an equal ratio to the racial inequality in society. I'd say there is more racism in fashion simply because it is an unregulated industry. People are not hired and booked based on credentials--it's an anything goes type of industry where there is a lot of groupthink and mob mentality. If one person is racist, then it helps plant the seeds of racist groupthink. And in fashion, there are no repercussions for that because it's fashion and it's not regulated. As opposed to commercial productions where they have an end goal for a profit and strive for diversity.

If you look at the changing numbers of people in power, people working and running Fortune 200 firms and up and coming successful entrepreneurs, well...first of all, a lot of it is men. But when you get past the predominance of men, you will see that the numbers regarding diversity are not as polar as fashion. In fact, the percentage of Asian American women attaining positions of power in tech, entrepreneurship, investment etc is expected to outgrow that of white women in the next quarter century. And considering that is a minority within a minority says something.

  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  132
front row
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: nyc
Gender: homme
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBlueRider View Post
Exactly!
Also, there is less of a chance of a model getting signed to an agency if she is black or asian and reminiscent of Lara Stone or Ashley Smith. If a black girl or an asian girl walks like Arizona Muse or Cara D, you know she will not be included in the show package.

In general, with high fashion, the taller the better. In my experience, designers and casting directors swoon over super tall girls (talking about 181cm++ I've literally seen a casting halt because a designer and casting director wanted to obsess over a 183 girl). Being super tall isn't as much of a taboo as people think because those are the girls who will most likely be opening and closing the shows in the most extravagant outfits. The only time a girl can be too tall is if she wants to branch out into the commercial world, in which 5'9"-5'10" is the ideal.
Intern22, you mentioned Jeneil, Jasmine Tookes and Tsheca. Jeneil and Tsheca are 5'9" flat. I've stood next to Jeneil many times and she is not short. Jasmine Tookes is 5'8" flat and very petite framed making her appear even shorter. But they fit within the agency requirements. They're not 5'6", 5'6.5", 5'7", 5'7.5" like a lot of white models agencies sign. On top of that, Jeneil, Jasmine and Tsheca have incredible physiques, some of the best in the industry.

Also, I don't know where you heard that about makeup artists talking about darker skin/black models. But you know that when black women or women with darker complexions break out, they are very prone to hyperpigmentation and that extremely difficult to cover and fade. They're also very prone to ashiness. Make up artists are less likely to use foundation and concealers on black models, especially darker skin black models, because many makeup brands simply do not carry dark enough shades (and it's even worse if the production is being sponsored by only one makeup brand). So they cannot have regular breakouts and hyperpigmentation--that will be so detrimental for their bookings. Oiliness and large pores are actually more prominent on dark skin because of the way it reflects light with the camera. I personally know a booker who is on top of the black models he reps to keep their skin in line. Have you seen Jasmine Tookes' complexion? It's one of the best in the industry. Same with the Asian models--look at Liu Wen, Sui He, Xiao Wen Ju, Chiharu, Ji Hye. They know they have to take care of themselves much more than their white counterparts and their agencies tell them that.
First of all, for you to point out "ashiness" as being a problem with black models is extremely offensive and ignorant. And yes while black models do experience hyperpigmentation, it's easier to mask a dark spot on brown or black skin than to mask a red spot or pimple on white skin. That's obvious. If Agynes deyn had a red spot (rosacea) and jeneil williams had a dark spot (hyperpigmentation) which do you think would be easier for a makeup artist to correct? Common sense. Plus jeneils body is so not typical of your average high fashion model. She's an athlete and very toned. She's muscular with round shoulders and thicker thighs.
Posted via Mobile Device

  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  133
front row
 
theBlueRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Gender: femme
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by intern22 View Post
First of all, for you to point out "ashiness" as being a problem with black models is extremely offensive and ignorant. And yes while black models do experience hyperpigmentation, it's easier to mask a dark spot on brown or black skin than to mask a red spot or pimple on white skin. That's obvious. If Agynes deyn had a red spot (rosacea) and jeneil williams had a dark spot (hyperpigmentation) which do you think would be easier for a makeup artist to correct? Common sense. Plus jeneils body is so not typical of your average high fashion model. She's an athlete and very toned. She's muscular with round shoulders and thicker thighs.
Posted via Mobile Device
I'm not personally pointing it out as a problem. I'm not throwing it out there like some theory. It's something agencies tell their models of color and make sure they stay on top of their skin--moisturize, toned and exfoliated.

It's not easier to cover up hyperpigmentation from pimples on darker skin when the proper concealer shade is not available and especially when it is not available in the proper coverage.

If Agyness deyn had a few pimples and then they dried out and left red marks, then a makeup artist would simply apply one of the many fair to medium shades of full coverage concealers. Another way to do it is to use a corrector shade in a green or yellow and then apply the proper toned shade of concealer on top--makeup brands don't have those correctors suited for dark skintones.


Last edited by theBlueRider; 15-03-2013 at 09:13 PM.
  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  134
V.I.P.
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Gender: homme
Posts: 11,031
Prada Showlists from S/S 2004 to present

Prada S/S 2004: 54 looks, all Caucasian cast.

Prada F/W 2004: 56 looks, all Caucasian cast.

Prada S/S 2005: 57 looks, all Caucasian cast.

Prada F/W 2005: 52 looks, one Asian model, Hye Park.

Prada S/S 2006: 53 looks, all Caucasian cast.

Prada F/W 2006: 47 looks, one Asian model, Hye Park.

Prada S/S 2007: 47 looks, one Asian model, Hye Park.

Prada F/W 2007: 43 looks, all Caucasian cast.

Prada S/S 2008: 45 looks, all Caucasian cast.

Prada F/W 2008: 42 looks, one Black model, Jourdan Dunn. (first Black model to walk for Prada in over a decade)

Prada S/S 2009: 39 looks, one Black model, Jourdan Dunn.

Prada F/W 2009: all Caucasian cast.

Prada S/S 2010: 36 looks, one Black model, Lyndsey Scott; two Asian models, Liu Wen and Shu Pei Qin.

Prada F/W 2010: 44 looks, two Black-Latina models, Joan Smalls and Rose Cordero

Prada S/S 2011: 41 looks, two Black models, Jourdan Dunn and Melodie Monrose.

Prada F/W 2011: 41 looks, one Black model, Roberta Narciso; two Asian models, Sun FeiFei and Xiao Wen Ju.

Prada S/S 2012: 41 looks, two Black models, Jasmine Tookes and Marihenny Rivera Pasible (also Latina), one Asian model, Sun FeiFei

-------------------Ashley Brokaw named Casting Director for Prada-----------------------

Prada F/W 2012: 41 looks, one Black model, Cora Emmanuel; one Asian model, Tian Yi.

Prada S/S 2013: 42 looks, two Black models, Grace Mahary and Roberta Narciso; three Asian models, Chiharu Okunugi, Sung Hee Kim, Yumi Lambert.

Prada F/W 2013: 48 looks, one Black model, Cora Emmanuel; three Asian models, Chiharu Okunugi, Sun FeiFei, and Sung Hee Kim.

  Reply With Quote
15-03-2013
  135
trendsetter
 
Simera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,054
Just going back to post 103, the number of white girls is going to be even higher than that as Israeli girls are white and I'm sure a large majority of the Latina/Hispanic models that walked are white too. Hispanic/Latina isn't a race, so that shouldn't even be counted unless of course we are talking about languages being spoken lol.

__________________
Bianca Balti - Isabeli Fontana - Polina Kouklina - Tatyana Usova - Toni Garrn
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
#2, diversity, modeling, racial
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:26 PM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. 2014 All rights reserved.