Balenciaga F/W 2021.22 Paris

Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by vogue28, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    What’s offensive is that despite these troll-level of design that’s just mocking not only fashion victims, but blue-collar workers and those living in poverty, Demna has shown he’s a very capable designer with solid talent. His Vetement debut and early-Balenciaga were full of refreshing, albeit highly-referenced callbacks to the Greats (Gaultier and Margiela being the most blatant references) in design and a genuinely fresh and rebellious attitude in the presentation: His Georgian/Eastern European aesthetic in harsh graphic design, whether these proposals resonated with one, is a personal preference. But there’s no denying it was fresh and a new attitude. Whereas the likes of Virgil/Maria Grazia/new-guy-at-Givenchy aren’t dumbing down— their mediocrity is really all they’ve got.

    He dumbed down his aesthetic vastly to the mindless masses that can’t relate to anything that takes more than a moment to connect with. And here he is, scraping at the bottom of the bottom of the barrel. But he’s making bank and clout, and that’s all that matters to the handlers and the masses (and himself) these days.
     
  2. perfect blue

    perfect blue Well-Known Member

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    Said everything I've been trying to say for a long time. I can't put it any better myself than you have here.

    He's shown glimpses of exceptional talent in the past. A lot of people try to put him in the same vein as Virgil but I think that's a little mistaken. Demna has had moments where he's created the zeitgeist whereas Virgil simply tries to find the pulse of it.
     
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  3. margielamike2004

    margielamike2004 Active Member

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    Baggy jeans with holes = stupid and played to death.

    Video games = people are really interested in that shat??

    Those pointy boots = ugly as sin

    if the end of the world happens tomorrow = I volunteer to be the first person to go.

    THIS?? All this.....is considered as fashion??

    I'd be happy to die soon....it would mean I no longer need to see any of this. ..or the future of "fashion."
     
  4. donyan

    donyan Well-Known Member

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    I get that people might not like Demna’s Balenciaga but there’s no denying that he has built an incredible, instantly recognisable body of work there in a very short time. The sneakers, the shoulders, the mood are all uniquely his, and his has seemingly touched a nerve with his work in a huge amount of people . I’m not a fan of everything, and I can’t bear the cynicism apparent in his work but there’s more energy and relevance in his Balenciaga than there is in a lot of the other collections of blockbuster brands. I take this over almost everything, including Bottega ( trying so hard to be Celine but ending up directionless and unsure of itself ) , Givenchy ( Balenciaga Wannabe) and the soulless Marketing of Dior et all
     
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  5. squilliam

    squilliam Active Member

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    I never understood the hype for this guy or what he produces. His stuff is usually make the ugliest thing imaginable and/or take something cheap and mundane and slap the balenciaga logo on it (like those copy ikea bags or the Bernie Sanders logo coats). It's like Theranos, they create all this hype but in essence there's nothing really there, it's just an illusion, you think it's some sort of high art well thought out creative genius but it's all a farce and people blindly accept it for some reason. Frankly I'd rather see a more classic designer like ralph rucci for this house
     
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  6. Fulton St Critique

    Fulton St Critique Active Member

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    "Frankly I'd rather see a more classic designer like ralph rucci for this house"

    Loved the Theranos comparison, so accurate. I am not sure Rucci would serve well at the house though. If my memory serves me right, Ralph was the last American to be invited to show Haute Couture in Paris. At that level, despite how incredibly beautiful and thought-provoking his work is, I would question his ability to sell in the real world and connect with the wide base that Demna has achieved. Whether we as a collective enjoy his work, I find it uninspired and unenthusiastic for the most part, Gvasalia does sell. In 2019 revenues $1.2 billion USD. As much as I would love to see Mr. Rucci at Balenciaga, or for that matter Dior, I just do not see it happening in this "SELL SELL SELL" climate.

    I attached his Haute Couture Fall Winter 2019/2020 collection below just for reference as well.
     
  7. dior_couture1245

    dior_couture1245 Fat Karl

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    Ralph Rucci is a mystery to me. His references are impeccable. His castings is always gorgeous. His clothes are immaculately made, as anyone can tell by watching the video you posted. And yet...his clothes/collections are always somehow a miss for me...there isn't enough warmth or charm. He doesn't incorporate any element, even the smallest dash, of "bad taste" to give a balance to his obsessively "good taste" work. It doesn't have life-blood.
     
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  8. squilliam

    squilliam Active Member

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    I will say that ralph rucci's designs seem to lack some soul, he's too by the books. But I find some of his cuts, the way he cuts sleeves and replies mostly on silhouettes reminds me a bit of balenciaga. He's no visionary like him but I think he'd relate well to the balenciaga archives. Of course it would never happen because nowadays it's not about design it's about marketing, and designers have to make their social media presence speak much louder than their designs
     
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  9. jeanclaude

    jeanclaude Well-Known Member

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    Ralph Rucci focuses on dressing adult women, women who know exactly what they want to wear; and who are able to identify unique pieces when they see them. A kind of woman who is also able to identify good quality from marketing hype.

    In the other hand, luxury brands these days are focused on dressing brainless teenagers who are unable to see beyond a logo, who are unable to feel something for design; and who are only interested in bragging how much money they have in front of other people faces.
    This is perfect for big brands, as they can make almost anything mundane and generic...and still sell it like hot cakes! Zero risks, maximum profit!!

    That´s the big difference between Rucci and luxury brands.
     
  10. perfect blue

    perfect blue Well-Known Member

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    I think we're starting to get into a conversation about how in touch (or out of touch) each designer is with people today. That thing doesn't define how talented a designer is but it is something that unfortunately paralyzes careers. We're living in a time where nobody can figure out exactly what it is that people want now. At some point (maybe about 2015-2016) it got fogged up and unclear for the entire fashion world. I wouldn't even chalk it up to wanting logos or streetwear anymore because people (yes, young people too) have been getting sick of that. Yes, there are women and men who just want well-made and sophisticated pieces. But that kind of design has always been a constant in fashion and we never really had to worry about it being completely diminished. That's even if that design philosophy takes a backseat in trends.

    I don't know what I'm saying, I guess lol. Probably just that there is a lack of consistent, progressive design in fashion for like the last 5 years. And the people that do strive for that today typically do no penetrate culture in any effective way. It feels like the press is mainly subjecting us to Virgil's mediocrity at LV, Demna's obsession with kitsch and irony at Balenciaga, and Hedi's self-indulgent nostalgia at Celine.
     
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  11. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    Ralph Rucci two main inspirations are Balenciaga and Halston and he is dressing a particular type of women. That woman could buy from Balenciaga (I think the knife slingbacks could totally work for that type) but the customer Demna is chasing couldn’t even look at Ralph Rucci... But ultimately, in terms of aspiration or even lifestyle, the Balenciaga by Demna aspire to the lifestyle of the Ralph Rucci.

    But I agree with what was said about Ralph Rucci not being a visionary. In that particular segment of Couture, the visionary was Valentino. He is the one that who bridged the gap between High Society and mainstream fashion because the division happened in the 70’s and grew further more in the 80’s and 90’s.

    Mainstream HF does not need a Ralph Rucci at the helm of a big brand because ultimately, he designs for a social elite. Mainstream fashion is either for those who wants to create clothes for a certain type of women/men or those who wants to see their clothes worn by a lot of people.

    I know a lot of people aren’t necessary fan of his work but I love what Daniel Lee is doing at BV. It’s rather interesting to see a 1B brand that does not resort to the same kind of tactics as the other ones. The designs aren’t maybe groundbreaking but I love the fact that they sells logo-free clothes. The hype around the brand can justify selling good quality clothes.

    To finish, I think that beyond the discussion around brands, it’s really about designers. YSL sells more than Balenciaga without being as obvious with their logos. I think some designers are sometimes operating more like executives than the executives themselves and they forget that risk taking is also a great thing.
     
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  12. bc collector

    bc collector Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Mr Rucci gives a f**k about being out of touch, if being in touch means..Demna (btw, I follow his IG account and I remember a post where he spoke out his despise for what is currently happening at Balenciaga - how could you not, if you are devote, as he is, to Cristobal's original oeuvre...).

    Nicolas's work is (was) there to show us that you can work on the house archive and produce something new, edgy, relevant, whatever you want to call it, and still be faithful to the trail marked by the founder.
    But Demna, sorry if I insist on this point, he just can't: he's definitely technically skilled, ambitious but hopelessly tasteless. There is an element of Balenciaga that he can't get and probably never will (although with his debut collection there was a glimpse of what the new course of the house could have been).
    And I wouldn't even object to his work, to his cynical exploitation to the logo-mania of the Gen-Zers he caters to; I would even appreciate if he stuck to that and had the honesty to admit that he loves making money and doesn't care the slightest about Cristobal and his archive, were it not for the fact that the guy is now fixated with this idea of relaunching the couture operations of the house, which, I think, will end up in a bubble (like the new SL couture by Slimane, just call it celebrity dressing).
    Unless he betrays what his work has been so far, I don't see legions of ladies who lunch who are going to spend millions to look like their cleaning ladies during their breaks at McDonalds...
     
  13. THD96

    THD96 Well-Known Member

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    For me Ralph Rucci is like Savile Row, well made clothes, satisfied all his clients requests but beyond that they both lack almost many things that made a fashion house. Mr. Rucci is just a tailor to me because his clothes doesn't have a distinct look or show no vision despite being in the fashion scene since the 90s. Looking at his clothes without the names I will never guessed it was Rucci because it's devoid from any emotions or personality traits that made it standout from other designers. And I don't mean you need to be create new silhouette every seasons in order to achieve it. Take Azzedine Alaia for example, even if he was always used the same shapes of dresses and techniques in his collections, the clothes he designed still distinctively Alaia. My point is why go to Rucci when you can go to other couture houses that have more history and signature style.

    Back to Balenciaga, Nicolas was great because that period of fashion was expressing your voice through design not the brands name. If Nicolas is still at Balenciaga now I don't think he can avoid slapping a logo his clothes. Looking at his Louis Vuitton for example it's still annoying me that he need to add the LV monogram in almost all of his garments. it's just how the fashion world works right now. Sooner or later customers will tired of too much logos and we will move on with whatever the next generation want to wear. Back to Demna, I actually like his first 2 years at the house when I still feel the Balenciaga elements in his designs. After that it's just went down hill.

    I actually happy that fashion and society have move on from the tiring ladies who lunch cliché.
     
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  14. jeanclaude

    jeanclaude Well-Known Member

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    Look for the "suspended panels" technique (Rucci´s signature). His garments are easily identified for this.

    20141215_13_l.jpg
    1stdibscdn.com



    Ralph Rucci is a very underestimated designer. I think he is misunderstood because he is not a "storyteller" designer (like Galliano); but a pure garment construction technician.

    But yes, he has a vision...the problem is his vision is not as easy to spot as other designers visions.

    He´s like Isabel Toledo (poor Isabel!) :( a "rara avis".
     
    #54 jeanclaude, Dec 20, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  15. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    You can't really guess which clothes are from Rucci if someone does not mention it to you?
    I really think that out of a lot of American designers, he is really one of the few that has clothes that stand out on his own. Because he has this understanding of craft, he has through his seams , created a visual language with his clothes. His jackets have a very particular cut, he has a very specific palette and a distinctive way of working with sheer fabrics. He is very consistent as a designer. Personally, what I love the most from his is his gowns. They have a sense of grandeur but a real sense of practicality...Which is very American in a way.
    Michael Kors is a designer I find clothes hard to identify. That's why despite loving some of his collections, I've always found myself beyond underwhelmed when looking at them in stores...It was just clothes. In fabulous cashmere maybe, but just clothes.

    Alaia is great but Alaia is also a very specific language and a small frame in terms of experimentation. In a way the beauty of Alaia is that he has declined his silhouettes in different fabrics and technology has made possible for him to experiment only in his signature fabric: jersey.

    And I don't think Nicolas would have done logos at Balenciaga because, obviously inspired by Alaia (they were good friends), he had found ways to make his clothes recognizable without it (except for the logos t-shirts they did for the capsules). Even the bags had a very specific aesthetic.

    Vuitton is different. It's a luxury brand. Of course, there are people who wants to buy Vuitton because they loves Nicolas's clothes (I'm one of them) but the majority of people wants the clothes because they are Vuitton. So they wants people to know it's Vuitton...Results: logos. Nicolas has a very particular way of doing jackets. Only someone who used to wear his clothes from Balenciaga would get it. But for your average luxury client, it's just a jacket. And a Vuitton Jacket does not have the "obvious subtlety " of a Dior, Chanel or Balmain jacket.
    Marc's runway Vuitton's stuff was produced in such limited quantities anyway that it wasn't even a question.

    I also love that fashion has moved on from Ladies who lunch but I love that there is still an option from them. There are ladies who lunch in Asia, middle east and some parts of Africa and I must say they are quite fabulous. It's maybe less flamboyant than the ladies from Dallas or Russia but it's still good. And despite the overdose of Birkin and Kelly bags, it has a charm that still works for me.
     
  16. bc collector

    bc collector Well-Known Member

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    Who do you think most HC clients are? They might come from China now, but they are still rich, bored wives (or daughters) of millionaires...
     
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  17. THD96

    THD96 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I didn't know this technique is from Rucci. I always associated this with Nicolas Balenciaga Spring 2008.


    What I mean is Mr. Rucci clothes doesn't remind me that the clothes that actually belong to him. Like when I look fairytale embroideries tulle dresses I remembered MGC or Pier Paoblo with voluminous tent-like gowns at Valentino. It's maybe repetitive or ridiculous but when you looked at it instant remind you what designers the clothes belong to.
     
  18. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    But maybe it has more to do with you being more familiar with their work than anything. If you look at Ralph Rucci from 20 years ago to his latest work, you’ll see the consistency.

    Ultimately, you print your aesthetic on people by consistently repeating it with small adjustments. PP and MGC did not created A-line tent dresses but by doing it every season, it became their signature. The only difference is that Valentino is a big brand that can afford to be present everywhere.

    And also, Rucci has never been an influential figure in fashion.

    But now that we are talking about it, there is a ton of designers you wouldn’t recognize clothes from. Marc Jacobs is one of them for me. His clothes are great but if you remove them from the context of a fashion show, you’ll have a hard time guessing they are from him. And that’s maybe the reason why his brand is struggling. It’s hard to have a deep connection with his clothes.
     
  19. perfect blue

    perfect blue Well-Known Member

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    I wish I could delete my post.
     
  20. 90sFan

    90sFan Member

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    liked the show, and some clothes. yes getting tired, but that's what he does
     

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