Balmain Mens F/W 10.11 Paris

[rui]

is this the Gap? boring!

 

[Starry]

Nothing special! But at least we all know these will be so pricy in stores!

 

[Andymoon]

I'm in love with the third look! I really miss skinny jeans.

 

[SGaspar]

BOOOOOOOOOORING. The jeans are quite nice but I can get those at some Inditex store, H&M or one of those.

 

[lordevan]

just like the last women's collection, i hate the shoulders

 

[FashionPower]

You want Balmain for men?Then watch Cavalli collection not this crap!
Still don't know why the female collection are SO stunning and cool and the male one are so uninspiring
Who will pay thousand of dollars for a thing that you buy in any street market for...15$ ?

 

[ettebe]

Same old, same old dead Balmain. I have yet to see the appeal of any Christophe work at Balmain.

 

[Spike413]

Oh that Cristophe, always two steps ahead of everyone else.

I'll admit, he's kind of a genius. Not just anybody could slap $1k+ price tags all over a basic outfit that every hipster in downtown New York has been wearing for years and sell it to people with more money than style without even having to design anything.

 

[rayoflight]

At least it looks wearable. I dig the jeans. And that blue/green t-shirt half-hidden by that pinstriped blazer.

Btw, I don't get how every Balmain thread is turned into a discussion about their prices. Last time I checked, Balmain mens wan't even close to super expensive (in designer clothing therms), not even close to Mastermind Japan or Lucien Pellat Finet, so I don't get why you guys get all worked up about that.
Balmain femme might be exxy, but not really, when compared to Chanel, Balenciaga. Besides only the runway pieces are expensive.

 

[fashionismydrug]

Of course it looks wearable, but the prices will be out of this world. That's a shame...

 

[With_the_wind]

At least it looks wearable. I dig the jeans. And that blue/green t-shirt half-hidden by that pinstriped blazer.

Btw, I don't get how every Balmain thread is turned into a discussion about their prices. Last time I checked, Balmain mens wan't even close to super expensive (in designer clothing therms), not even close to Mastermind Japan or Lucien Pellat Finet, so I don't get why you guys get all worked up about that.
Balmain femme might be exxy, but not really, when compared to Chanel, Balenciaga. Besides only the runway pieces are expensive.

900 Euro for a basic pair of denim jeans is not average, not even in "designer clothing terms". By the way, neither are Mastermind Japan and Lucien Pellat Finet.

As for those who like this collection, I would love to hear why. As I look at this, I see (bad) rehashes on basic menswear pieces, better versions of which can be got at other labels.

 

[mikeijames]

here we go again.

this balmain menswear collection highlights the pitfalls of the fashion system in the modern internet age. we have two threads of criticism of this collection. first, that it's not innovative enough. second, that it's too expensive. the laughably ironic part about both criticisms comes when one considers that those things remain true ABOUT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE MENSWEAR SHOW WE'VE SEEN THIS WEEK. we're just now pulling ourselves out of a worldwide economic meltdown the likes of which we haven't seen in our lifetimes. did you honestly think balmain would put on a show where men wore pants as turbans, shirts as sarongs, shoes as gloves, and blazers as boots?

balmain has located a sweet spot in the marketplace for the club-going, jet-setting, big-spending beautiful people who got tired of seeing every upstart with a little bit of money wearing the same jeans, the same mini-dresses, and the same shoes without it meaning anything. we all have gucci shoes. we all have ten pairs of acne. we all have rick owens leather jackets. balmain -- yes, with their pricing -- gave us exclusivity again. so while these clothes aren't so out of the mainstream that they draw attention -- contrary to popular belief, not everyone wants to spend two thousand dollars to look like an uncomfortable fashion experiment -- they are exclusive enough to demand attention.

to say something is "too expensive" is not legitimate criticism in a fashion forum, is it? a lanvin menswear blazer costs $2,430!!! that's more than a gucci suit. a rick owens tee shirt costs $640 -- no pattern, no distressing, no nothing. that's more than an entire outfit from burberry prorsum. let's be clear: the price doesn't determine that it's BETTER or WORSE. it's just a number; it's a business decision. we all know the best part of this collection remain those jeans and those balmain jeans remain highly covetable and extremely fashionable. for those who have the body to pull it off and the means to obtain them, they will command the types the looks the we ALL crave for our designer purchases.

 

[With_the_wind]

this balmain menswear collection highlights the pitfalls of the fashion system in the modern internet age. we have two threads of criticism of this collection. first, that it's not innovative enough. second, that it's too expensive. the laughably ironic part about both criticisms comes when one considers that those things remain true ABOUT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE MENSWEAR SHOW WE'VE SEEN THIS WEEK. we're just now pulling ourselves out of a worldwide economic meltdown the likes of which we haven't seen in our lifetimes. did you honestly think balmain would put on a show where men wore pants as turbans, shirts as sarongs, shoes as gloves, and blazers as boots?

balmain has located a sweet spot in the marketplace for the club-going, jet-setting, big-spending beautiful people who got tired of seeing every upstart with a little bit of money wearing the same jeans, the same mini-dresses, and the same shoes without it meaning anything. we all have gucci shoes. we all have ten pairs of acne. we all have rick owens leather jackets. balmain -- yes, with their pricing -- gave us exclusivity again. so while these clothes aren't so out of the mainstream that they draw attention -- contrary to popular belief, not everyone wants to spend two thousand dollars to look like an uncomfortable fashion experiment -- they are exclusive enough to demand attention.

to say something is "too expensive" is not legitimate criticism in a fashion forum, is it? a lanvin menswear blazer costs $2,430!!! that's more than a gucci suit. a rick owens tee shirt costs $640 -- no pattern, no distressing, no nothing. that's more than an entire outfit from burberry prorsum. let's be clear: the price doesn't determine that it's BETTER or WORSE. it's just a number; it's a business decision. we all know the best part of this collection remain those jeans and those balmain jeans remain highly covetable and extremely fashionable. for those who have the body to pull it off and the means to obtain them, they will command the types the looks the we ALL crave for our designer purchases.

The two criticisms were made in a comparative, rather than an absolute sense, meaning Balmain, when compared to the other shows and designers seen this week, lacks innovation and is expensive. If you say all the other shows were not innovative, where does that leave Balmain?

You say Balmain's customers got tired of wearing the same mini-dresses, etc as everyone else? Then why is it that Balmain's clothes, especially after the "breakout" season, look so similar to the clubbing clothes offered by so many other labels (Gucci being one of them)? Btw, Balmain's clothes don't mean anything either. You listed a bunch of designers that everyone presumably owns and used Balmain's price to set it apart. It's not the label or the price that sets an item of clothing apart; it's the design, fabrics and construction. What you've described is a fallacy of exclusivity. It's not paying more for the same garbage - it's paying more for those criteria I just listed. I'm aware some people don't want to spend $2000 to look like an experiment. I assume they also don't want to spend $2000 to look like trash.

As for your numbers, even though they are incorrect, compare them to Balmain. The same items for Balmain are all more expensive than your figures. If one can get the similar (and in this case, better) items for less, why not? Also, would you pay $10,000 for a polyester suit from H&M? If you answer no, then saying something is too expensive, even on a fashion forum, is a legitimate criticism.

 

[purpleglossy]

any specialty here?

 

[rayoflight]

Well, I looked it up, the prices at Rick Owens are higher than Balmain for similar pieces, e.g., t shirts, boots, leather jackets. (roughly 30% higher or so, Balmain - plain shirt - 150€, Rick Owens - 200€ and so on) At least some Balmain shirts have a print on them, that doesn't justify the price or anything, but if the argument is that one could get the exact same thing at Gap than that would be true for 90% menswear, because menswear consists of basics, no matter whether it's Balmains or Rick Owens or Junya Watanabe, the rest, the 10% consist of 900€ biker jeans, 700€ zipper covered sweaters and 500€ overlong silk t-shirts.
It's pretty much a pointless argument anyway, if somebody likes Balmain jeans or whatever they can get some or admire them on others. If not, it's not like somebody can force them to do so. Of course, if it's case of sour grapes, then I do understand why all the fuss.

 

[With_the_wind]

Well, I looked it up, the prices at Rick Owens are higher than Balmain for similar pieces, e.g., t shirts, boots, leather jackets. (roughly 30% higher or so, Balmain - plain shirt - 150€, Rick Owens - 200€ and so on) At least some Balmain shirts have a print on them, that doesn't justify the price or anything, but if the argument is that one could get the exact same thing at Gap than that would be true for 90% menswear, because menswear consists of basics, no matter whether it's Balmains or Rick Owens or Junya Watanabe, the rest, the 10% consist of 900€ biker jeans, 700€ zipper covered sweaters and 500€ overlong silk t-shirts.
It's pretty much a pointless argument anyway, if somebody likes Balmain jeans or whatever they can get some or admire them on others. If not, it's not like somebody can force them to do so. Of course, if it's case of sour grapes, then I do understand why all the fuss.

OK, on Luisa via Roma, in the women's section, Rick Owens basic t-shirts run from (USD) $229 to $294. Balmain has two t-shirts, one destroyed cotton one for $1628, and a studded "Tiger Fleece" t-shirt (also cotton) for $2093. Oh yeah, there's a "cheap" ribbed tank top for $419. All those are more expensive than the most expensive basic Rick Owens t-shirts. I realize that neither selection may be indicative of the labels at large, but this is what I have seen of both, so I am trusting that it is indicative. I stand by my previous statement that Balmain is absurdly expensive, both in an absolute and in a comparable sense.

Also, I never said you could get the same at Gap; I said you could get better from other labels, those being Balmain's competitors. And maybe it is true for 90% of menswear (I'm just regurgitating your fabricated statistic), but the other 10% is not just biker jeans, and zipper covered sweaters. There are entire labels that occupy that other 10% because the product they are selling, even what for them is typical, is far from basic. Rick Owens is one such designer, Junya Watanabe to a lesser extent. Designers with in-house production or small factory runs charge a lot of money because at that level the labour is more expensive, and the materials and construction reflect that. It isn't always the case with Rick Owens, but for the most part I'd say his quality is pretty good.

I never condemned anyone for liking Balmain; I simply expressed my opinion that it is garbage. It's not sour grapes, I wouldn't wear Balmain if Decarnin himself handed me the pieces.

The only reason the argument is pointless is because people refuse to discuss it intelligently, and decry after they're sick of hearing a different opinion that the whole argument is pointless. I would love to know why those who like Balmain do, but no one has provided a reason I can't (at least mentally) reject. If someone said to me, "It makes me feel like a rock star," I could accept that, because usually one can't explain emotions. But so far all I've seen is "those torn up jeans look so comfy," and "it's exclusive."

 

[Donatello89]

jeans !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bidwell]

With the Wind:

The two criticisms were made in a comparative, rather than an absolute sense, meaning Balmain, when compared to the other shows and designers seen this week, lacks innovation and is expensive. If you say all the other shows were not innovative, where does that leave Balmain?
I'm aware some people don't want to spend $2000 to look like an experiment. I assume they also don't want to spend $2000 to look like trash.
The only reason the argument is pointless is because people refuse to discuss it intelligently, and decry after they're sick of hearing a different opinion that the whole argument is pointless.

The most succinct statements I have read in a while. We all know that charging 1000 % more for the same product that H+M can churn out for 39€ is simply a demographic scam. There will always be tasteless punters with too much money and the destitute tasteful. If having a Balmain label attached to your jeans means so much then you deserve to be fleeced of a 1000€.
There is no dignity or respect in that, I'm afraid...

 

[rayoflight]

^^^ I'm talking about menswear, I couldn't care less how much or little Balmain womanswear costs and how those prices relate to anything. Obviously their prices are not on the same level, just like their mens jeans cost 500-1200€ while the womans jeans generally are 900-1500€ range (at least@luisaviarome), so comparing womenswear prices on a menswear thread is not really relevant by any standards.
And I didn't mean anyone specifically with that Gap comment, it's just in every Balmain thread there is at least one comment that states that it looks like Gap/H&M or some other mass retailer.
Alsot there is the huge difference between show pieces and retail pieces, a designer can have a spectacular show, but in the stores the customer ends up with watered down basics. At least with Balmain this far what we see in presentation we also get in stores. I don't care for beautiful shows if the clothes are blah, shows are publicity, I can't wear publicity, can I?
For the reason someone liking/disliking Balmain, it's probably similar to reasons somebody else likes or dislikes some other brand. Not everybody likes Dsquared, but they sell seem to sell well (way better than some oh-so artistic brands like Yamamoto), so there must be a market for that kind of style despite the fact that years ago people argued one could buy the same distressed jeans, sweatshirts at A&F or American Eagle, just like now we are having the same discussion about Balmain. Dior Homme was also criticized saying that particularly Heidi's latest collections looked like something from thrift store, but people still obviously liked either those clothes or the image that come with them, just like people now like the clothes/image that Balmain sells.
As for the successful brand image, to me, at least, Balmain somehow manages to create a quite carnal aesthetic without being too gaudy, it still looks trendy without being too austere or too avant garde. Acid washed biker jeans, shiny boots and some grungy shirt is more appealing to me than a look from lets say Rick Owens with high heel boots and knee length leather jackets, and most people would probably find me more appealing if I wore Balmain than Rick Owens.

 

[With_the_wind]

Bidwell, thank you. I agree completely with your last two statements.

^^^ I'm talking about menswear, I couldn't care less how much or little Balmain womanswear costs and how those prices relate to anything. Obviously their prices are not on the same level, just like their mens jeans cost 500-1200€ while the womans jeans generally are 900-1500€ range (at least@luisaviarome), so comparing womenswear prices on a menswear thread is not really relevant by any standards.
And I didn't mean anyone specifically with that Gap comment, it's just in every Balmain thread there is at least one comment that states that it looks like Gap/H&M or some other mass retailer.
Alsot there is the huge difference between show pieces and retail pieces, a designer can have a spectacular show, but in the stores the customer ends up with watered down basics. At least with Balmain this far what we see in presentation we also get in stores. I don't care for beautiful shows if the clothes are blah, shows are publicity, I can't wear publicity, can I?
For the reason someone liking/disliking Balmain, it's probably similar to reasons somebody else likes or dislikes some other brand. Not everybody likes Dsquared, but they sell seem to sell well (way better than some oh-so artistic brands like Yamamoto), so there must be a market for that kind of style despite the fact that years ago people argued one could buy the same distressed jeans, sweatshirts at A&F or American Eagle, just like now we are having the same discussion about Balmain. Dior Homme was also criticized saying that particularly Heidi's latest collections looked like something from thrift store, but people still obviously liked either those clothes or the image that come with them, just like people now like the clothes/image that Balmain sells.
As for the successful brand image, to me, at least, Balmain somehow manages to create a quite carnal aesthetic without being too gaudy, it still looks trendy without being too austere or too avant garde. Acid washed biker jeans, shiny boots and some grungy shirt is more appealing to me than a look from lets say Rick Owens with high heel boots and knee length leather jackets, and most people would probably find me more appealing if I wore Balmain than Rick Owens.

You cannot dismiss the importance of womenswear for both of these labels we're comparing, even in a menswear thread. They started with womenswear, womenswear is where they became famous, and to a large extent their menswear is a translation of their overall vision (to the extent that one exists with Balmain) that has guided the womenswear; therefore, womenswear is relevant.

Even if you disregard womenswear, Balmain menswear is still more expensive than Rick Owens menswear (which itself is on the expensive side of things). I calculated the averages for you (again in USD ~$320 for a Rick Owens t-shirt (LS and SS included), and ~$346 for one from Balmain. On the surface the difference may not be huge, but when you consider that many of the Rick Owens t-shirts are made from more expensive fabric, and have seam details that increase the time taken to make them and consequently the cost to produce them, I think the difference in value is vast (again, as much value as one can get from a $300 t-shirt). The Balmain t-shirts, while many are printed, the printing was not done by hand, and therefore does not add as much cost to the shirt as the Rick Owens details do. I suppose Balmain could argue that destroying the shirt adds value to it, but I have never believed that and I never will.