Celine F/W 2020.21 Paris

[mistress_f]

incredibly boring even by hedi's standards...
this look: imgbox - fast, simple image host has something interesting going on, but that's about it, the rest is just depressing, still can't believe this nonsense is produced under the name celine

 

[Uemarasan]

Matter of fact i know Shayne Oliver really well & own loads of his stuff, I just mentioned Virgil & Olivier because regardless of what they make they get slandered on here lol...I Support a lot of designers of color that are never talked about or mentioned on this forum...I will look up the above mentioned African designers thanks for that ...I'm just here to learn & take in different perspectives...I just detect a lot of racial undertones/ Covert racism on here concerning those 2 Gentlemen...

Well, I can only speak for myself, but my issues with Virgil stem from the fact that he's been caught blatantly "borrowing" from lesser-known artists and designers (who need the press and money) for many of his pieces (Diet Prada often points these out on Instagram). As for Olivier, I've never been a fan of the Balmain aesthetic that Decarnin started and which Olivier continues.

I miss Hood by Air and I'm glad Shayne Oliver is mounting a comeback. I can't wait for what he's planning But I do think that many of the best black designers tend to be showing in Africa (or have roots in Africa) at the moment. I wish people still talked about Ozwald Boateng more! The attention seemed to have faded after he left Givenchy.

 

[matheus_s]

I couldn't tell the difference between his many collections both at YSL and Celine if my life depended on it. I always have a feeling like I'm looking at the previous season or the one before...

S A M E

 

[Lola701]

The longest show of my entire life...And god knows that I’ve attended Chanel shows for more than a decade!
It was long, long, long in a Armani kind of way...So long that I wanted it stop! If only the models walked faster... My god!

It’s a classic Hedi collection. He even tried to fool us with the big logo but it was clear that we were looking at a Hedi collection...

It was redundant with some ugly platform shoes.
I actually felt nothing from this. It was just there...Add to that the cast. 4 black models if I remember well for a total of 8 looks over 111.
I know Hedi is a streetcasting kind of guy and that regular models rarely fit his aesthetic but come on now! You could expect from a half Tunisian man to be actually aware of that...

I hope sells will finally take off this time...

Matter of fact i know Shayne Oliver really well & own loads of his stuff, I just mentioned Virgil & Olivier because regardless of what they make they get slandered on here lol...I Support a lot of designers of color that are never talked about or mentioned on this forum...I will look up the above mentioned African designers thanks for that ...I'm just here to learn & take in different perspectives...I just detect a lot of racial undertones/ Covert racism on here concerning those 2 Gentlemen...

I’m a black woman and I’m very supportive of black designers...When they are talented and a real point of view. There are a lot of interesting African designers who are doing great things even if they don’t have the best distribution for their clothes...I’ve never been on board with supporting mediocrity just because we have the same skin color. That has been my main problem with guys like Virgil and co.
And I think it’s the reason they have a lot of critics. Virgil is a bit the face of black designers at the helm of a big house. People don’t care about the fact that Boateng, Robinson and even Rousteing opened the door for him...
But if there’s one thing that I applaud Virgil for is the fact that he put a light back on black designers as a whole. His commercial success made executives take black designers seriously and also inspired a lot of designers to chase that kind of success.

 

[whippie]

I watched All The Money In The World yesterday. And I guess I watched it again today looking at this.
Can we please take the 70s influences and update them instead of just cut and pasting the whole look from some 1972 Vogue editorial.

 

[Nomar]

111 looks coming to a Zara near you. They must love his work.

 

[MulletProof]

Some fashion reviews haha.. it's gotta be exhausting having to write 4 paragraphs on literally nothing after a long and busy day, so I want to give Sarah Mower a break on these math skills (or desperate resources to validate the inspiration here), but my pedantic self can't help but wonder who on this runway is under 12 lol..

Slimane was born in 1968 [...]
he’d have seen the style of the ’70s through the observant eyes of a young teenager [...]
exactly the age of the boys and girls who roamed his runway this (and indeed every) season.

He also was not "too young" to have participated in the 1968 riots, which lasted from May to June. He was a fetus, born in July.

 

[disco54]

111 looks coming to a Zara near

Matter of fact i know Shayne Oliver really well & own loads of his stuff, I just mentioned Virgil & Olivier because regardless of what they make they get slandered on here lol...I Support a lot of designers of color that are never talked about or mentioned on this forum...I will look up the above mentioned African designers thanks for that ...I'm just here to learn & take in different perspectives...I just detect a lot of racial undertones/ Covert racism on here concerning those 2 Gentlemen...

you. They must love his work.

I laughed at the comment about sustainability. Yes, you don’t need to buy anything new since it’s the same collection as last season’s. You save money AND the environment.



If we’re talking about mainstream black designers, I think Hood by Air’s Shayne Oliver and Grace Wales Bonner have the talent, integrity, and vision that those two lack, not to mention the many wonderful African designers (such as Lukhanyo Mdingi, Tokyo James, and Julia M’poko) who unfortunately never get any publicity.

They don't get slandered, Virgil's work is piss poor quality thats the reality , being of some ethnic label or alphabet designation does not give you some pass or immunity. I was an early supporter of Virgil but his work is absolutely poor, he got his position at Vuitton not on talent but on identity politics and faux wokeness just like Maria Grazia . I would say Telfar is light years more talented than Virgil. To the contrary, it shows your bias that one would actually praise Virgil's designs they are shabby poorly constructed imitations and deep down you know its true.

 

[GivenchyAddict]

I enjoyed few looks both from menswear and womenswear. This is a classic Hedi.

He wants to sell a lot and he has not so much choices as the sales are bad regarding how much LVMH invested in his ideas. I know they give him some months to really rise the sales or he will be out.

I am biased regarding his collections as all the in showroom I am happy to see how good the cut and the details are. I even bought some loafers.

It would have been so different if it was just his own brand rather than Celine...

 

[Lola701]

I enjoyed few looks both from menswear and womenswear. This is a classic Hedi.

He wants to sell a lot and he has not so much choices as the sales are bad regarding how much LVMH invested in his ideas. I know they give him some months to really rise the sales or he will be out.

I am biased regarding his collections as all the in showroom I am happy to see how good the cut and the details are. I even bought some loafers.

It would have been so different if it was just his own brand rather than Celine...

The collection should have been mainly about menswear...The womenswear was a fourre-tout. At one point he send out a black sequined column dress...very 80’s, very confusing.
His voice is still needed in menswear but I don’t crave for his womenswear.

 

[GivenchyAddict]

Well you know well why the ww and mw are shown together...

I hate the casting to the bottom of my heart but I will defend him to make very desirable pieces with nice fabric, nice fit and the styling is nice.

His has a very narrow vision same as Alt for example but it does not mean it could not be a good vision.

Some customers like consistency and to have a sort of uniform with small alterations.

It is weird for me to defend him tbh haha.

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Absolutely.

Yes, same old same old. But with every new collection, he adds and builds upon that internationalist old-money preppy rocker-wannabe signatures of the late-70s a little bit more. It’s just a new touch here and there— like the sequinned and gold-lamé p*ssy-willow bow dress; the chesterfield and dufflecoat with the Napoleon detailing; Glen-plaid suiting… Just enough to get his kidz excited without overdoing it to overwhelm them and his brand. That’s an admirable restraint in a time when most are only thinking of the moment, Hedi is carefully curating his very specific brand of retro-cool lifestyle for the privileged few bit by bit.

It absolutely goes against the phoney “inclusivity and diversity” money-making gimmick-- and maybe his is just as phoney and gimmicky in his own way, but at least it’s not pandering to everybody. How great to see kidz dressing like adults and still full of youthful energy instead of adults dressing like kidz and looking like clowns.

(But hr really needs to change it up when it comes to his presentation. My god-- are they a slog.)

 

[Lola701]

^^^ Absolutely.

Yes, same old same old. But with every new collection, he adds and builds upon that internationalist old-money preppy rocker-wannabe signatures of the late-70s a little bit more. It’s just a new touch here and there— like the sequinned and gold-lamé p*ssy-willow bow dress; the chesterfield and dufflecoat with the Napoleon detailing; Glen-plaid suiting… Just enough to get his kidz excited without overdoing it to overwhelm them and his brand. That’s an admirable restraint in a time when most are only thinking of the moment, Hedi is carefully curating his very specific brand of retro-cool lifestyle for the privileged few bit by bit.

It absolutely goes against the phoney “inclusivity and diversity” money-making gimmick-- and maybe his is just as phoney and gimmicky in his own way, but at least it’s not pandering to everybody. How great to see kidz dressing like adults and still full of youthful energy instead of adults dressing like kidz and looking like clowns.

(But hr really needs to change it up when it comes to his presentation. My god-- are they a slog.)

I don’t necessarly think women are excited about his stuff, unless they are die-hard fans (and judging by the emptiness in the women section, they are not very demonstrative) but men, for sure!

I will always be critical about Hedi in womenswear (I liked his second collection for Celine tho) but for men, it’s always perfection. His strength, beyond the cut is the styling. You see it, you want it, you are sold...And it has a timeless appeal.

I believe in diversity but not necessarly in inclusivity at all cost. Hedi’s suits fit well on a skinny or very slim frame. If you are a NBA player, it’s not for you...much like Thom Browne is not for you. You can wear Tom Ford, Ralph Lauren, Zegna or Dolce & Gabbana.
It’s different on the womenswear...I don’t expect Hedi to dress Lizzo but he does clothes that can fit a lot of women...Not everybody is size 34 and not everybody is 42 either.
When you are selling a particular taste or aesthetic, it’s ridiculous to then try to appeal to everybody. It makes more sense for Valentino or even Dolce & Gabbana to sell bigger sizes.
Hedi’s clientele is diverse, his runway should reflect that. 4 black models is really ridiculous...And I would have said the same if he had fewer Asian models (We know how Asian loves and wears Hedi’s clothes well).

 

[Phuel]

^^^ Celine is not for me nor is it cut for a body like mine. I have no desire to wear any of this, as much as I appreciate his very strict aesthetic of always casting young, skinny boys and girls in these sort of plaintive fashions that don’t scream “fashion!". (BTW, he’s very clever to be showing his menswear alongside the women’s because, as you’ve noted— it is stronger than his women’s. But also because it so can be effortlessly worn by the girls…) And as much as Hedi, way back to his Dior Homme days, has always spoke to an Asian client, I do respect that his has always been about a narrative that comes from a youth culture that is predominately White. To insert a more Asian and Black presence to the subculture scenes of his inspirations/influences becomes pandering and creatively-dishonest. The story of the very privileged trustfund kidz of preppy old-money that’s running with the indie freaks and geeks is one that is an overwhelmingly White demographic. We’re both POC Lola, and we know what it’s like to be excluded and dismissed because we are POC. So to tun around and now and say “It’s so White!” because that’s an insult which is accepted now is just as wrong as saying “It’s too Black!”.

(BTW, no way is Hedi in anyway akin to Maria Grazia. He has a story and lifestyle he’s presenting— and one that is sincere, even to the point of creepily obsessive. She’s just churning out department-store merch and slapping the latest trending SJ-buzzword the night before her presentation. Remove her slogans and buzzword-of-the-day, replace it with any other word, and her show and merch wouldn't need to change at all. With Hedi, his fashion and casting is a password to a subculture and lifestyle he’s been committed to for 20 years.)

 

[dontbeadrag]

I don't know, I actually loved the whole thing. But don't count me in, because I came through the stages of hate, misunderstanding, then accepting and finally loving Hedi Slimane.
I am so sorry for loving him today, because the is so unapologetic and you can tell it. He doesn't give a fu*k about being trendy, gimmicks for Instagram fashion bloggers, tricks for some i-D or Pop say WoW sO cReAtIvE. He doesn't care too much about exactly the topics I feel are overtaking the world too much such as being different, bringing diversity over anything else, being intellectual, being sensitive to everything with the point of making a political show out of runway (hi, Maria Grazia with the feminist schtick) and so on. Hedi Slimane creates clothes for the spoiled, rich, skinny girls and boys that look like they are bourgeoisie that do not work anywhere and only go shopping in Galeries Lafayette and drink overpriced coffee at sidewalk cafes in Paris. And honestly, I am living for it, because he knows what he wants and he pushes it so much, that he still has a huge following. Not some designer that does anything to appeal to anybody he does not want to connect with. On top of that, his approach is my personal eye bleach after all the Dior, Louis Vuitton, Balenciaga, Off-White, Yeezy and all the other stuff that is about selling a sneaker/hoodie/logo cap/logo bag/slogan t-shirt and etc.
Now you can kill me with stones, because I am one of the horrible people who want to be (or actually stay) skeleton-skinny and fill half of their wardrobe with timeless Celine pieces.

 

[GivenchyAddict]

^ I understand that.

I hate the cast mostly because they are so skinny that you put your focus more on that than the clothes. That's why I avoid attending the show and go to the re see. There is a line between being slim and skinny. The latter is not healthy.

Diversity? I don't expect that at all from him. He was never been a champion of it and from what I recall, as a teen looking at his blog, he is obsessed with the white skinny cool rocker teen he never been in his young age.

 

[MulletProof]

he is obsessed with the white skinny cool rocker teen he never been in his young age.

Yeah. I think fashion is primarily his language and it inevitably exposes the usual conflict of identity/shame that tends to stem from an underprivileged upbringing (sort of like Kanye West).. the half-African background in what I imagine was a less tolerant France and how he obsesses over blatantly status symbols, from the trustfund blond kids (it's certainly not any white kid lol) to the areas he chooses to live in. Much like West, there's also some desperation to be a name in these more bs-proof fields that always demand credentials and that gives an interesting spin to his seemingly unapologetic narrative in fashion. For music he'll disguise these same boys as random finds, use his fashion brand to lure actual musicians and present the parties of models he organizes himself as a crazy orgy-type of thing he just walked into. For the even more restricted status pyramid offered by the art world, he'll do things no one in fashion would associate him with.. like for the past 2 years he's been photographing the up-and-coming artists in LA that are extremely outspoken about POC and inclusivity (as in vandalizing historical sites because.. white oppressors). Does he care? I don't think so, but said artists are flattered and that matters more.

So I think the word honesty is not a priority as the word diversity may be given the right professional opportunity. But yeah, he's true to himself... in fashion.

 

[LostInNJ]

I think this has to be the most civil Hedi Slimane thread I have visited whilst on TFS and I love it. So many valid points raised here...reminds me why I loved this forum in the first place.

 

[Lola701]

Diversity? I don't expect that at all from him. He was never been a champion of it and from what I recall, as a teen looking at his blog, he is obsessed with the white skinny cool rocker teen he never been in his young age.

Say like that it makes sense...I’ve never thought about it because I’ve always had in mind him being a French with Tunisian and Italians parents being exposed with diversity from his younger years. Alaia is another Tunisian and he pushed diversity having faced injustices being Tunisian when he came to Paris (losing his job at Dior for example).

But yes, Hedi was born in 1968 in the 19th arrondissement. His parents were immigrants and he grow up in one of the most « populaire » arrondissement of Paris. So we can only imagine what having that name, those origins, being skinny and being gay meant at that Time and in that upbringing...

So yes, the skinny white boy that was Bowie (he loved Bowie) who was comfortable enough in his sexuality became an ultimate figure...The same for Mick Jagger and stuff. And when he was old enough to get a sense of independence, he did what some other outcasts did in the 80´s (Farida, Louboutin...etc), partying at Le Palace and be around rich kids and other originals...

While his vision of fashion is rooted in a sense of reality, it’s all about a fantasy: Les Beaux Salons, an extreme idea of luxury, a deep sense of exclusivity. His fascination for skinny rockers is a more about the idea of freedom because their lives are totally different. Much like kids from the 16th liked to be around guys from the suburbs...But not too close.

I think that your comment is also going to make me not expect diversity from Hedi anymore. I have never thought that me being vocal about it (even at the store when I went there) was going to change anything but Hedi never doubt and is very in control about his vision. He has created his bubble, his world and it has most of times always worked for him.

In the same spirit, I think Yamamoto’s clientele in Europe is mostly Congolese but has like 2 black men or girls in his shows and it’s not a discussion....I think Hedi receive criticism because people see him like they see his models: a skinny white man.

 

[Uemarasan]

In the same spirit, I think Yamamoto’s clientele in Europe is mostly Congolese but has like 2 black men or girls in his shows and it’s not a discussion....I think Hedi receive criticism because people see him like they see his models: a skinny white man.

Isn’t this mostly because Yohji Yamamoto has just 40 looks (with models doubling for those looks) whereas Celine has more than 100? Besides the fact that Asia is still the biggest market for Yohji Yamamoto and there are rightfully more Asian models. Taking into consideration the pragmatics of hiring in Europe, I think the casting is relatively fair in the YY shows.