Decade Long Debate: Should Couture Still Exist?

Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by ignitioned32, May 23, 2004.

  1. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    In your opinion should Haute Couture still exist? With designers from YSL to Oscar de la Renta at Pierre Balmain to Emanuel Ungaro stopping to show couture and designers like Yamamoto showing superb high-end ready-to-wear that can be called couture, should it really exist?

    There are also other problems involved. Most women who buy couture don't have the time anymore for 3 fittings.

    Is couture an outdated institution?
     
  2. ebowleg

    ebowleg New Member

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    IMO, the answer is yes...I personally look at couture as an escape from reality..I like the craft and what it is all about, minus the big shows (which I enjoy) there are really amazing works of art to be marveled at...

    I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic with this, but I will asume you are, so... :lol:
     
  3. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    I appreciate your reply ebowleg :flower: , but I did not think you got my point. Sure you enjoy it, as I do, but should it still exist when you have designers like Yohji Yamamoto being able to do couture-like clothes and I wasn't being sarcastic. Emanuel Ungaro said it himself.
     
  4. marc jacobs addict

    marc jacobs addict New Member

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    in my opinion yes.

    to me, couture is about imagination and artistic expression through their clothes. ready-to-wear is more like designing for consumers. you're bound to be a little more 'safe', for lack of a better word, because you know the buyers will be wearing them, and the clothes are directed more to the masses.

    but couture, couture is different. its about having an image or idea in your head, and transcribing it into design, and clothes, and... fashion. its more personal, each piece specific to the buyer. i love couture, i hope it stays around and makes a comeback. :blush:
     
  5. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    Yamamoto and Kawakubo aren't like that. They both have imagination and esp. artistic expression through their clothes which are almost couture quality.
     
  6. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    But should it still when some RTW designers can do the same thing w/o the hassles?
     
  7. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    Thought I'd add. :flower:
     
  8. marc jacobs addict

    marc jacobs addict New Member

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    ohhhhhh. i just read your post above ignitioned, sorry. i misinterpreted the question too. :blush:


    hmm. okay, well, i'm still bias to couture. but even with designers like Yohji Yamamoto making collections that can be considered couture, i still think there should be seperate couture collections. yes, his designs are like couture, but that's just him. and obviously there are others like him whose designs lean to the couture side, but then there are designers like Chanel, Dior, Ungaro.. etc. who for the last couple of seasons have done both ready-to-wear and couture, and to take out the latter of the two, would leave only ready-to-wear. this is really just a lot of rambling, i apologize. bascially, i want the couture collection to stick around. yes, designers like Yohji Yamamoto will design their collections like couture. but, for instance, Chanel didnt, and doesnt. if they stop making their couture collections, then there is only their ready-to-wear, and the field of couture is dwindled down even more, until eventually there are only designers who design their rtw like couture.


    rambling again. sorry. couture collections should stay because its just another diversifying factor that makes fashion the multi-faceted industry that it is. the more couture, the better, in my opinion. :flower:
     
  9. ebowleg

    ebowleg New Member

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    I think so, there are many couture designers who are soley based out of Paris, and have no desire to do RTW, couture like or not...(This is a little off topic but :innocent: )...And wouldn't designing couture like clothing still almost be like designing couture? Look at Ralph Rucci, his RTW line is made and priced like couture and still really only appeals to a select clientelle (with lots of $) just the couture... :flower:
     
  10. brian

    brian New Member

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    i really don't want haute couture to go anywhere :(
     
  11. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    But say why diversify when there's no difference? Also what do you say to Berge's comments on couture?


    PS I'll give my opinion later.
     
  12. ignitioned32

    ignitioned32 Mannikin

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    PS Among alot of fashion circles this has been long debated esp. after the departure of Saint Laurent. So if anyone can post articles please do. :flower:
     
  13. marc jacobs addict

    marc jacobs addict New Member

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    Thought I'd add. :flower: [/b][/quote]
    interesting. didnt see that one before.

    obviously he is right, or right in some aspects. more and more people just arent buying couture, so the designers will soon enough stop designing them, and the latter quote about Chanel and Dior, in my opinion, is right as well. they're companies, their main goal is to make a profit. if they can do that and cut out the cost of couture, i'm sure they'd do it.

    but nonetheless, I STILL WANT MY COUTURE! :p

    from a marketing point, i can understand why a design house would stop it. it costs a lot of money, and time. the clientele who buy couture is rapidly diminishing. other couture houses are stopping, follow the trend.

    however, even though i do not have the money to buy couture despite however hard i may wish for a vintage ysl dress to appear at my doorstep, i still like to know its around. i like that couture is personal. i like thats its intricate. i still want it around. no doubt about it. but i am beginning to understand why the exec's of companies want to cut it out, which is a shame. :(
     
  14. marc jacobs addict

    marc jacobs addict New Member

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    found an article online from april 2002. i didnt have time to read the whole thing because i have to go. so if someone could read it an summarize it, because its long, that would be fabulous! :flower:

     
  15. Lena

    Lena etre soi-meme

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    i like couture but i have to agree, it does look a bit old-fashioned and dated, it also seems that less women are buying it or have anywhere to wear their couture at.

    should the couture week be canceled?
    NO. I think it should transform into something fresh, dedicated to one off piece collections by rising fashion stars and the few Couture Houses that insist -and can invest in - taking out Couture Collections.

    My fave Couture designer of late is -by far- Ralf Rucci. He's a great master of style, i think he's been terribly underestimated, maybe because he's American :unsure: Its a shame, he's brilliant with details and workmanship, but most just look out for the fireworks in Couture, unfortunately -and mainly due to Galliano- workmanship and style seem to come in second place and this LEADS couture's 'death'. Some people mix Spectacle and Workmanship, sad.

    As for Yohji, he never really did couture, he just decided to switch his normal RTW collection presentation earlier than all the other fashon Houses, thats all, dont get misleaded by him entering Couture Week scedule with PAP collections ;)
     
  16. Mutterlein

    Mutterlein Active Member

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    Haute Couture will be relevant as long as there are people who will buy it. However with the introduction of new technologies, industry, and social change it seems that it will have to transform beyond a dated and elitist institution. Issey Miyake is developing ways to make clothing manufactoring cheaper and and faster, Tara Subkoff discussed the idea of digitally mapping a client's body and get rid of the need for fittings. And more and more people are breaking away from tradtion. The value for things such as luxury clothes and Haute Couture has gone down.


    Fashion is a popular field and every year there is a flood of hundreds of designers being released from school. With so many trained people and so much access to new technologies I think this will result in a new and different way to address the need for more personalized and unique clothing which is currently being satsified by the high fashion industry. It will be similar to the music industry. When you have good deal of people who make music, have access to recording and publishing equipment, and a market becoming jaded with the mainstream offerings it results in many smaller and independent labels. They end up offering cheaper and more diverse selections.

    I think the same will go for fashion and even haute couture.
     
  17. Mutterlein

    Mutterlein Active Member

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    I didn't read the article posted before my reply until just now but I think it illustrated what I meant.

    "By going to one of the younger, new, ``cool'' couturiers, who make dresses for $6000, as opposed to the six figures charged by the big names, the cashed-up fashion victim can find virtually the same values of quality and uniqueness that appeal in vintage couture, but which actually fit and don't smell funny.

    The sheer price of designer clothing these days is another reason why the lower rungs of couture are beginning to attract a new following. Take these examples, which are in stores now. An embroidered coat from Louis Vuitton will cost you nearly $45,000; a ``chainmail and patchwork'' top by the label of the moment, Balenciaga, $10,000; bikini bottoms by SportMax, $1800; a sequined T-shirt from Dior, $1500."
     
  18. Spacemiu

    Spacemiu New Member

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    I don't really ahve a feeling that it should or shouldn't exist.

    obviosuly there is hardly any really market for it.

    but artistically i enjoy it.
     
  19. Scott

    Scott Stitch:the Hand

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    I'd have to say it isn't really that relevant anymore. One,it has become rather a stagnant appeal Two,everything in the world clashes now--its no longer about sticking with an archetype. Designers in P-Â-P are focusing more on craft,HC has introduced 'wearability'.....everything is meshing. So no,I don't see why it should remain other than 'show'. That's really all amounts to these days.
     
  20. tott

    tott slightly dizzy

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    Well spoken, Scott!

    Also, like Mutterlein said, technology can and will revolutionize the actual manufacturing.

    Some things aren't likely to be replaced by machines anytime soon, though. Hand crafts and the skills required can't be successfully replicated yet.

    I guess it IS all about "upgrading" PAP and "downgrading" haute couture?

    Otoh, I think that PAP can't get any more expensive if people are supposed to be able to afford it; I guess that's where "special order" comes in? Regular PAP and made to order PAP...
     

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