Designer & Fashion Insiders Behavior [Read post #1 before posting]

Discussion in 'Rumor has it...' started by Thread Manager, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Melancholybaby

    Melancholybaby Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it's the lack of Helvetica the reason why it didn't register as a Hedi Slimane ~statement. :lol:

    I guess everything that goes online stays there forever, I managed to find the original Twitter meltdown, 22 tweets of all caps verbal diarrhea! (on Highsnobiety of all places, apologies in advance to anyone accessing)
     
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  2. fashionista-ta

    fashionista-ta Well-Known Member

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    ^ That's a pretty high standard of extremist. I get that vibe from fashion only very occasionally (but I'm by no means fully immersed), and usually not from tFS. If someone somewhere is measuring humanity in fashion, it would be interesting to know if Karl's departure for the other side had any impact.
     
  3. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    Yes was going to say, I remember very well that we all considered the party pretty offensive at the time, it is not like this is just woke cancel culture. The party was always shocking. It never really surprised me though - being Italian I find Italy to be one of the most racist countries there is. I am not sure many Italians would even see a problem with these photos today.
     
  4. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    The racism in Italia is insane. Sometimes I feel like they are a lost cause. There’s an insane xenophobia coupled with racism.

    When you look at what is happening in the football world, it can only make you think what can happen in the fashion world. The problem is that the Italian fashion community is a real small community of people mostly speaking the same language, interacting with people like them 90% of the time. Only maybe people like Donatella, the Fendi, Gucci under Tom or even the Caten brothers and few others have that open view to the world.

    The worst thing is that they can be racist to your face without you understanding anything.
     
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  5. MulletProof

    MulletProof Well-Known Member

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    His change of font is the CAPS for most people when gloves are off lol.. not a bad idea if you think about it (just imagine the reactions at work if you just opted for some bold comic sans.. like your alter ego the antichrist is now in charge of the interaction :lol:).

    That's not the meltdown at high snobiety! the meltdown featured that 'TO DEMONSTRATE THE POWER OF MY NAME!' bit Jennifer quoted on October 2 plus a ton of attacks on how Cathy looks. Then all of it was deleted a couple of days later and then, on Oct 5 or 6 he readdressed the "confusion" over the collection he had shown but this time in third person and kind of more medicated ..restrained, not even naming her directly anymore just "FACT CHECKING!" x 5. That's what HS is showing. Ugh, we all slept on that thing.. it was too funny to not be immortalized..
     
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  6. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    After all, Hedi’s mentor was Pierre Bergé...
    He learned well.
     
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  7. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    Black Models See Rising Representation in China

    Very slowly, the Chinese fashion industry is embracing racial diversity.

    By Tianwei Zhang on June 29, 2020

    [​IMG]
    Ajak Deng posed for a Numéro China editorial shoot. Courtesy Photo/John-Paul Pietrus

    LONDON — While the Black Lives Matter movement is spurring swift change across the fashion industry, and society as a whole, in the U.S., the demand for Black models in China is also on the rise because of a new wave of designer brands that see inclusivity as an integral part of their DNA, and a more open-minded social environment that champions Sino-African relations.

    China has a very different dynamic and history with Black people compared to the U.S., where the majority of African Americans were brought to the continent as a result of the slave trade. Most Black people living in China are there to do business or study by choice, and the majority of the population in China holds a neutral-to-friendly view toward them, as China’s history books would describe how its “African brothers” helped the country regain its seat at the U.N. in 1971.

    On a diplomatic level, China is the biggest supporter of many African nations. It has pledged more than $150 billion in loans to the continent between 2000 and 2018 as part of the New Silk Road initiative, and in June, Chinese President Xi Jinping pledged to cancel the interest-free debts owed by several African countries as part of Beijing’s move to help the region during the coronavirus pandemic.

    China also built the first electrified railway from Addis Ababa to Djibouti in 2018, based on China’s high-speed railway, and many other huge infrastructure projects that previous colonial rulers considered unworthy to invest in.


    [​IMG]
    Chow Tai Fook’s campaign for Children’s Day.

    Still, Black representation in the Chinese media is rare, and when it appears it can raise eyebrows among some more conservative observers.

    Hong Kong jeweler Chow Tai Fook, for example, posted three campaigns featuring the hands of a Black model playing a game with an Asian model for China’s Children’s Day on June 1 on Weibo. This kind of interracial depiction from a Chinese brand generated heated debate, with more than 19,000 comments and 300,000 likes on the post.

    Some expressed their extreme and nationalist views, but the majority of the comments defended and praised Chow Tai Fook’s inclusive casting. One user said: “Thank you Chow Tai Fook, this is the right attitude a Chinese brand shall have, respecting different races and values equality.”

    For a long time, fair skin has been associated with beauty, wealth and prosperity in China. Skin-whitening products are some of the bestsellers for beauty brands, from Lancôme’s Blanc Expert range and Estée Lauder’s Crescent White series to Chanel’s Le Blanc skin-care and makeup lines. While Unilever and L’Oreal have dropped any references to white or whitening on skin-care labels in response to the Black Lives Matter movement, the majority of luxury beauty brands have not yet taken a stance on this issue.

    But with more Chinese traveling around the world and staying connected via social media receiving information from all sorts of cultures, the country’s ideal of beauty is changing. Leading Chinese models like Liu Wen, Lina Zhang and Chu Wong are some of the most in-demand faces in fashion at the moment, and their success is shifting the country’s decades-long obsession with Western facial features, such as double eyelids and a sharp jawline, toward more a progressive and diverse beauty standard.

    [​IMG]
    Ajak Deng on the cover on Modern Weekly in 2012. She is the first Black model to be on the cover of a Chinese fashion publication. Courtesy Photo/John-Paul Pietrus

    This kind of open-mindedness is helping the fashion industry in China to become more inclusive toward Black models.

    John-Paul Pietrus, a photographer who has been working with Chinese fashion publications for more than a decade and shot the first Chinese fashion magazine cover featuring a Black model — Ajak Deng wearing Comme des Garçons in 2012 for Modern Weekly produced in China (Vogue China put Naomi Campbell on the cover of its January 2009 issue, but it was not photographed in the country) — said he can feel there is an increasing demand for Black models in China.

    “The first time I shot a Black model in China was in 2004 for Jalouse, when Elite was having their international model competition in Shanghai,” he said. “I wanted to do a big portfolio that showcased cultural diversity. I didn’t want the cliché of having a white girl in front of a concrete jungle sort of colonial thing. Instead, we shot Aye Tounkara all around Shanghai.

    “People on the street were curious. They stared at her as odd. They hadn’t seen anyone like her at that time. People might have seen Naomi Campbell or Tyra Banks kind of Black models, but not her kind — shaved head and super dark skin and she was wearing super glamorous designer clothes. A car drove by, and the driver was so amazed by her, the car crashed into a lamppost,” he added.

    [​IMG]
    Model Aye Tounkara on the street in Shanghai. Coutresy Photo/John-Paul Pietrus

    From the 2010s, as international brands began to bring more diverse models to their China shows, local fashion publications began to have more opportunities to work with Black models. Pietrus photographed Ajak Deng for Modern Weekly and Numéro China when she was in Shanghai for an Hermès show.

    The Chinese editions of Vogue, Elle and Harper’s Bazaar have occasionally featured Black models in their editorials, but not as frequently as they want to. Editors and stylists cite the challenge being there simply aren’t that many Black models based in China, not even for a few months. Pietrus said he had never even seen a Black model’s card in China back in the day.

    Men’s wear designer Feng Chen Wang said she had to fly Black models to China for her shows when the local agency couldn’t provide enough options. Having lived in London for more than a decade, Feng believes any brand should make inclusivity a part of its core values. She uses a diverse cast of models every season and in special projects she does with Converse and Levi’s.

    Fiona Lau of Ffixxed Studios, a Shanghai-based label, said if an emerging brand wants to reach the same level of casting diversity as in Paris or London, it will have to search hard within its limited budget.

    “We are both originally from Australia and one of the fortunate things about growing up in Australia is living in a really multicultural society, so diversity is something that has always been an important part of what we do,” she said of her and her co-creative director Kain Picken. “With regard to the situation here in China, to be honest, we have not had that many options for Black models when casting our shows or look books, compared with the Paris shows.”

    Beginning last season, the designers began to scout models through their personal network. “We used a Black male model for our look book who is actually our friend Daniel Magunje. He is really interesting, a Chinese speaking fashion blogger from Africa, now based in Hangzhou, and we wanted to work with him. It was a similar situation when we worked with Boubou the Crow, a French hip-hop dancer based in Shanghai. We sought him out ourselves. We need to be more proactive in finding our own models if there is not enough diversity provided through traditional agencies. It’s something we can continue to work on in the future,” Lau added.

    [​IMG]
    Daniel Magunje in Ffixxed Studios’ 2020 fall look book. Courtesy

    For big brands, the demand to have diversity of models in a show in China is on the rise, but very slowly, observed Tina Steele, communication director at event agency K2 in Shanghai.

    “Diversity is not a priority. Very rarely have clients requested or accepted Black models in China. They wouldn’t say it directly, of course,” she said. “On average we’ll have either 50 to 70 percent Asian models and 30 to 50 percent Caucasian models. So far this year, for our shows we are only going for Asian models since most ex-pat models are unable to come in the country.”

    The lack of Black models in China could also be attributed to economics, since for an agency to bring a model from overseas they need to be able to provide a certain amount of sustained commercial work to make it viable for the agency as well as for the model, although Haitian-American model Christina Rateau argues otherwise. She has been seeing more Black models working in Shanghai in recent years, mostly from Brazil.

    A regular at Shanghai Fashion Week and an international business graduate from Shanghai’s Donghua University, Rateau has had a good career in China, walking for brands like Sirloin, Private Policy, Yirantian and INXX, and appearing in campaigns for Puma and the Bosideng x Jean Paul Gaultier capsule.

    She said there is little competition when a brand wants to cast a Black model in China, and she can count all the Black models in Shanghai on her fingers. Rateau has been in Indianapolis with her family since the COVID-19 outbreak started in China and, based on the portfolio she built up in China, she has signed with an agency in the U.S. to explore the international market and creative roles behind the scenes.

    [​IMG]
    Christina Rateau poses for Vulkan. Courtesy Photo

    Rateau thinks Black models are getting more representation in China because Chinese clients are trying to mirror what high-fashion brands are doing — increasingly putting an emphasis on racial diversity. “With LVMH after Virgil Abloh came on board, you see his fashion shows and it’s like, ‘This is what it could be, man!’ And China is trying to mirror a lot of foreign trendsetting in that way. It’s like, ‘If Black models are cool abroad, we have to get that going here,'” she added.

    At the same time, she acknowledged the complexity and wider implications of her modeling in China. “We’re also just not the beauty standard here. That’s a fact. It is weird, too, to impose someone else’s beauty standards onto China’s thousands of years of beauty standards. That said, I still think it’s still important to accept any and all kinds of beauty,” she said.

    Magunje, 23, who came to China in 2014 to study accounting at Hangzhou’s Zhejiang Gongshang University, said he found self-confidence by modeling in China. “In Zimbabwe or South Africa, you have to be strong and muscular to be a model. I didn’t really fit in. After I got here, I was just shopping in a mall, minding my own business, and this very well-dressed guy just approached me and said he wanted me to model for his Taobao brand,” he said.

    Since then, Magunje has an average of three modeling jobs a month while running his own cross-border business, helping Chinese companies to enter the African market, and promoting African designers and textiles in China. He said he never goes to a casting — jobs come to him from word-of-mouth recommendations — and he has discovered that there is, in fact, a hidden demand for Black models, who are often overlooked by professional modeling agencies, which tend to prefer Asian and Caucasian faces.

    “I am thinking about starting a modeling agency to represent Black models in China,” he said. “Lots of my friends ask me how I started and they are looking for jobs in modeling in China, and I truly think I am in a good place to help. “

    WWD
     
  8. dior_couture1245

    dior_couture1245 Fat Karl

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    I’m very curious as to when African fashion will finally begin to embrace true diversity. Would be really nice to start seen Asian, White, Latino, Indian and Indigenous models represented equally in African fashion brands. I haven’t seen any signs of that change yet, but I am looking forward to seeing all the inevitable think pieces and BoF articles praising it when the time finally comes.
     
  9. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    The power dynamic is totally different for African fashion to embrace diversity. There isn’t a fashion industry in Africa to begin with, just some few brands doing good locally with maybe some stockists around the world.
    But you see, from Kenneth Ize to Imane Ayissi, African designers don’t have problems with including diverse casts in their shows.
    Your comment seems a bit shady...With all the respect I have for you.
     
  10. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    Well it's not quite the same, is it? For them (African designers/brands/magazines) to do that they must have the market, the platform, the resources, and all the privileges that Western and Asian fashion markets/designers have. And they don't. Let's talk again once they're in that position of power.

    The Chinese fashion industry decided on their own to start embracing black models in a bid to start fitting in with the fashion industry at large, nobody pressured them.
     
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  11. dior_couture1245

    dior_couture1245 Fat Karl

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    Yeah, yeah, yeah....always the same response....I love you both, but I’m not buying these excuses anymore for why it’s always “diversity for thee, but not for me.”
     
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  12. susseinmcswanny

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    Right like why won't Africa embrace the colonizers?? So crazy!! Shame on them!
     
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  13. cestmagique

    cestmagique you set the scene

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    ^right :lol: and taking opportunities and visibility away from people already at a disadvantage is not the point of diversity.
     
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  14. dior_couture1245

    dior_couture1245 Fat Karl

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    Y’all are insane.
     
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  15. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    You simply cannot expect diversity from a continent that doesn’t have a fashion industry and from a continent whose industries are controlled by western countries/economies. It’s not excuses, it’s just a reality.
    Africa is still a continent that has a lot to resolve.

    I find it ridiculous to have those type of expectations just because you are fed up of conversations about diversity or of black people asking for representation (that’s the underline message I get from your comment). In this case, they did not asked for it...
     
  16. LostInNJ

    LostInNJ Rive Gauche. Rive Droite.

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    I beg to differ.

    You seem to have a problem with diversity in fashion, period. Just about every post I see from you regarding the topic is something negative, so I'm not surprised to be reading any of the things you have written. I'm surprised I chose to actually respond, this time.
     
  17. dior_couture1245

    dior_couture1245 Fat Karl

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    I just personally don't worship at the altar of "DIVERSITY."

    I love all of the different cultures of the world...their history, their beauty, their unique crafts and languages and music and dress and traditions...I just don't like this dogmatic religion of "DIVERSITY" where everything, and I mean, EVERYTHING, must be bean-counted...or else kiss your career goodbye....

    I want African designers to celebrate their Africaness. I also want American designers to celebrate their Americaness if they so choose, Chinese designers to celebrate their Chineseness if they so choose, European designers to celebrate their Europeanness if they so choose, etc. without being mobbed and maligned.
     
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  18. dsamg

    dsamg Well-Known Member

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    How would you even know if African designers are embracing diversity or not anyway, given we give them absolutely zero platform? How many are household names?
     
  19. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    Ann Coulter said that once and I don't get it because it's such a 1902 perception of the world. Leaving sensitivities and cultural context aside for a second, the world isn't mapped out like that anymore, Dior. You can find cluster communities in every corner of the world. But even worse, to my knowledge, your population is made up of people from so many different backgrounds. You can't change or ignore that. So wouldn't it only be fair for everyone to get a sense of belonging as opposed to just one group? Even if you say 'well let's just celebrate Americaness (sic) and not individual culture'..... fine. But just know that even Americaness would need to include white, black, Latino, Asian etc because they are your citizens. And that's not even happening on the bare minimum.

    Also, when Europeans want to leave their own countries to run all over the world to peddle goods and cater to a different demographic, they must be aware that they'll encounter different people and would have to attune their publicity to reflect and accommodate them. Seems to be par of the course every time they chase after Chinese Yuan, now it's time for them to start applying that same strategy everywhere else.

    Re the article about the Chinese fashion industry embracing black models, I find it quite interesting. They have been as you say, celebrating their Chineseness all these years and that worked perfectly fine for them without any backlash or overt complaints. But maybe in addition to wanting to be part of the global fashion family and falling in line with that values, they also just want to explore and show their audience different variations of beauty other than their own.
     
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  20. Cute

    Cute Well-Known Member

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