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Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by stylegurrl, Jul 20, 2004.
sounds like exactly what i was saying in the couture thread...u
Wow.....I have to say that I agree on the unwearability, but yeah it is theatre and yeah it is look at me I'm great, but as she said in the last paragraph they get translated in wonderfull and beautifull clothes. But to pin every gay designer on one haystec is absolutely ridiculous. It is nonsense that every gay designer insults women on the catwalk, pure nonsense! And also, this lady should get her facts right: there were 29 and not 39 models and the show was for fall/winter 2005 not spring 2005!
Interesting, I kind of disagree, but it's still an interesting perspective of things.
"Almost without the most brilliant designers are, and always have been, male and homosexual.
I asked a couple of fashionista friends of mine to name a single major heterosexual male designer, and they were stumped. "
Ahhh... lets try Roberto Cavalli perhaps??? Bitc*.. i hate how people always think fashion designers are gay and stereotype.. stupid woman.
I think the writer took the show out of context. It is one thing to send unwearable clothes down the runway during the show but it isn't unwearble clothes that eventually gets sold. Galliano and Mcqueen's aesthetic is not selective just towards women as their men's collections carry the same theatrical and progressive qualities. It debunks the writer's theory.
Also some straight male designers, Tommy Hilfiger, Issey Miyake, Yohji Yamamoto, Oscar De La Renta. It really isn't hard to come up with a couple names.
I was thiniking that too, Calvin Klein, Ralph Lauren, as well as the ones listed, I mean, gay men don't hold the market for male fashion designers (even though I happen to like them better).......what a totally stupid thing to say.
Plus, the writer was looking at two designers who are known as much for their talent as for their theatrical presentations. I mean, I highly doubt that Galliano ever expects women to don the persona of his catwalk models, same with McQueen. No offense, but the way this woman is speaking, she doesn't sound like she has the ability to look past presentation in a fashion show which leads me to believe that she isn't of the fashion flock. Whether it looks good by real world standards or not, the way a model looks on a runway is apart of the designer's vision, but doesn't necessarily reflect how they think women should look.....
Well said Spike.. I agree with you fully.. cept you should back up what you say at the end with because.. so "it doesn't necessarily reflect how they think women should look..." because why?? i like what you've said.. but i cant think of the reason why it doesnt reflect how they think women should look.. so i was just wondering if you had that reason?
Also.. Calvin Klein is gay..
"While he has been married, his days as a bachelor hanging out at the famed Studio 54 could be considered questionable, as can his sexuality." Sourced from: www.AskMen.com Even tho this doens't fully suggest that he is gay.. i read it somewhere else but cant find it.
I agree with a lot of what the journalist said in her article.... its is refreshing that she is just saying what a lot of people think. Even though I think his collections could be argued as being beautiful, I can't help but feel like he is atking the p*ss out of women to an extent - I mean - they couldn't breathe properly....how can that be good?
one thing thats clear about Mr Galliano - he elicits reaction if nothing else. thats sells lipsticks I guess!!!
I beg to differ that Cavalli is a 'brilliant' designer....Yoji isn't gay is he?
i didnt had time to go through the article yet
but i've got the message from your posts
and i agree with Helena's points, this is what people are thinking/talking about..
my main problem with Galliano's attitude is his shows esthetics,
the clearly aricature make up, the kitchy poses, the horrible platform shoes..
season after season after season.. yawwwwn
i will also agree on the cavalli comment.. Yohji isnt gay at all,
he was rei's old bf..
still i wont agree on the gay connection that much,
its not like 'all gay people think or create the same way',
every single gay person is such a different story, its only true.
i so despise 'labeling' minority group actions or trusting the clichès.
if a gay guy does 'caricature' the female form,
well, so do some straight female designers,
to me its not a gender/sexuality issue
its a matter of culture and refinement.
( steping down from soapbox)
Lena - if you don't mind, I'll step back on your soapbox - why do some designers want women to look foolish? surely designers ought to want to empower women.... is it not foolish looking when someone can't walk in the clothes they are wearing. women aren't trophies or spectacles to be stared at like galliano seems to want them to be.
I can sympathise with what she says in the article, but not necessarily for the reasons give. While it may be fair enought to point out that statistically most male fashion designers are gay, you need to really think about what conclusions, if any, you can draw from that. I honstly don't know what those conclusions should be, but surely it can't be that gay male fashion designers are misogynistic? I assume that from what you say above Cavalli isn't gay, but the clothes he makes for women absolutely objectify them in a purely sexual way. On the other hand, I'm not sure how you could argue that Armani is mysoginistic or overtly sexual. There are just too many exceptions to any supposed rule. In a sense I think the gay male designer point is more relevant to their menswear collections. I'm convinced that no straight could come up with (or wear as shown) the Galliano clothes. They're deliberately fetishistic in their styling and detail. But then again there's nothing camp about Armani for men - on the contrary.
Anyway the Daily Mail is a right wing anti-gay rag , so most importantly, I think the artilce should be read in that light.
Agreed entirely , especially about ' The Daily Mail ' !!!
Stick to , ' The Guardian ' !!!
Johnny I too dislike the Daily Mail & when I started reading the article I was fully expecting to disagree with all she says. However, the gay/misogyny point aside I do think she makes some good point is her article. You and Lena are both saying the same thing I think - that you can't make rules about how someone is just because they are gay. agreed. I suspect you are right about her anti-gay agenda given her readership. Someone mentioned mcQueen - incidentally io think he 'treats' women with a lot more respect than Galliano does.
I must say however as i feel one can never say often enough ---Cavalli clothes are mingin!!
I LOVE freakish fashion! Outlandish clothes and shows are interesting and fun. What's the point in having a "show" when you only want to see normal people wearing normal clothes?
I have to agree with almost everything said by anyone...a show is IMO an occasion to show your true feelings and inspirations. If freaky and unwearable and perhaps respectless clothes come out of it, what ever! It simply is just a show. What happens on the runway in the cases of McQueen and especially Galliano does not end up in the stores (thank God) What ends up in the stores is basically very beautifull and desirable. If a designers likes to dress his models up like draq queens, pornstars, hobo's, cows or ostriches, then that's his right. Almost all the time it looks mighty fine just for the occasion and even more mighty fine in the stores and that basically is what we have to look at.
That was my 2 cents...and some more too
What a poorly written article. I imagine the Daily Mail is equivalent to the New York Post?
I understand her initial point, but the rest is so diluted and illogical that I can't even draw from the article what she is attempting to say.
Also, Calvin Klein is very gay. I'm always astounded when people think he's straight. Did anyone else read about his recent rent boy fiasco in the Hamptons?!
Hum.. I did read the piece of CK's boystravaganzza!
Oh ... and the article is well... drifting constantly... first, the writer slap the designers, then kiss 'em ?
I don't think their (McQueen/Galliano) visions are just gay ... McQueen and Galliano are not even that alike ...
There are some points I agree, on how we men use to idealize women and try to do it throught (in this case) clothing ...
But in a way both McQueen and Galliano ARE theatricall and they love the drama .. I mean, it's expected on their shows. I think the journalist should've documenteed himself/interview the men themselves before editorializing this piece.
Lets be honest most designers are male and gay, I can't see a big influx of straight men coming into fashion design anytime soon either, but what about the new generation of female designers who are really making an impact - they seem to come out London mainly as with most new talent - Stella, Luella, Pheobe, Sophia (kokosolaki) . . .
Then there is the new head of womenswear at Gucci, the designer at Azzaro . . .