Fashion Shows Fighting To Stay Relevant?

[mikeijames]

THE FRENCH FASHION TURNAROUND

DIDIER GRUMBACH, president of the French fashion union representing haute couture and ready-to-wear, has called for an overhaul of the biannual catwalk shows in a bid to stop high street stores copying the designer collections. "It is collective suicide," he said, claiming that the system of showing collections six months before they hit the shops gives counterfeitters free reign. "We are the only industry to send out global innovations on the Internet for free." Grumbach proposes that private shows should be presented to buyers at the usual time, while separate displays for the media could be organised later in the season, shortly before the new collections appear in the shops. He said he expected stiff opposition to his proposal, but that it was the only obvious solution. "If you reason dispassionately, you will say the system is stupid," he said. "Of course it is not going to change overnight. To tell you the truth, I don't know when it will change. But I can promise you it will happen." Grumbach's complaints highlight the problem facing top fashion houses of mass market stores such as TopShop, Zara and H&M being able to view and copy designs from the catwalk so rapidly that they are on sale before they have even been manufactured by the original designer. "That is really embarrassing," he goes on. "Not only do they deliver faster, but it's ten times cheaper and eventually, nobody knows who invented the product anymore because the copycat delivers ahead of the inventor." (January 15 2004, AM)

From Vogue.co.uk


It seems that us fashion-minded aren't the only ones frustrated with the best designs winding up on the wrong people all too quickly. Leave it to the French to take the first strides in making fashion even more exclusive that it was before.

I say, "Bravo!"

What do you think?

 

[kit]

Originally posted by mikeijames@Jan 16th, 2004 - 1:21 pm

THE FRENCH FASHION TURNAROUND

DIDIER GRUMBACH, president of the French fashion union representing haute couture and ready-to-wear, has called for an overhaul of the biannual catwalk shows in a bid to stop high street stores copying the designer collections. "It is collective suicide," he said, claiming that the system of showing collections six months before they hit the shops gives counterfeitters free reign. "We are the only industry to send out global innovations on the Internet for free." Grumbach proposes that private shows should be presented to buyers at the usual time, while separate displays for the media could be organised later in the season, shortly before the new collections appear in the shops. He said he expected stiff opposition to his proposal, but that it was the only obvious solution. "If you reason dispassionately, you will say the system is stupid," he said. "Of course it is not going to change overnight. To tell you the truth, I don't know when it will change. But I can promise you it will happen." Grumbach's complaints highlight the problem facing top fashion houses of mass market stores such as TopShop, Zara and H&M being able to view and copy designs from the catwalk so rapidly that they are on sale before they have even been manufactured by the original designer. "That is really embarrassing," he goes on. "Not only do they deliver faster, but it's ten times cheaper and eventually, nobody knows who invented the product anymore because the copycat delivers ahead of the inventor." (January 15 2004, AM)

From Vogue.co.uk


It seems that us fashion-minded aren't the only ones frustrated with the best designs winding up on the wrong people all too quickly. Leave it to the French to take the first strides in making fashion even more exclusive that it was before.

I say, "Bravo!"

What do you think?

YES and NO

What would we do here on TFS without photos from the shows and crits of the collections WELL BEFORE they go into the shops ?

We want exclusivity but also accessibility !

A paradox ! ' NON ? ' . ( As dear Didier would say ! ) .

Regards KIT

 

[ChinaLove]

It seems that us fashion-minded aren't the only ones frustrated with the best designs winding up on the wrong people all too quickly. Leave it to the French to take the first strides in making fashion even more exclusive that it was before.

I say, "Bravo!"

What do you think?

I find something rather condescending about what you said... is fashion supposed to be for an exclusive group of people? What do you mean by 'wrong people'?
In any case, I find that mans proposal to be absurd, but highly relevant. He makes a good point. But fashion is to be copied. Otherwise, what's the point? Besides, it's not like Zara and H&M have anything on the high fashion houses. They replicate what they see on the runway, but they usually turn out to be cheap, tacky and gross reproductions. I've been to Zara and they rip a lot of ideas from Versace and Dolce & Gabbana... But Zara is f*cking disgusting. It may be 10 times cheaper, but it's also 10 times more CHEAPLY MADE. Crappy fabrics, crap stitching, gross fitting... want me to go on?

 

[Spacemiu]

I always thought shows should hapen 1-2 months befor they coem out in stores, especially becuas most stores buy allt he clothes befor the shwos ever hapen.

 

[kit]

Originally posted by ChinaLove@Jan 16th, 2004 - 2:47 pm

It seems that us fashion-minded aren't the only ones frustrated with the best designs winding up on the wrong people all too quickly. Leave it to the French to take the first strides in making fashion even more exclusive that it was before.

I say, "Bravo!"

What do you think?

I find something rather condescending about what you said... is fashion supposed to be for an exclusive group of people? What do you mean by 'wrong people'?
In any case, I find that mans proposal to be absurd, but highly relevant. He makes a good point. But fashion is to be copied. Otherwise, what's the point? Besides, it's not like Zara and H&M have anything on the high fashion houses. They replicate what they see on the runway, but they usually turn out to be cheap, tacky and gross reproductions. I've been to Zara and they rip a lot of ideas from Versace and Dolce & Gabbana... But Zara is f*cking disgusting. It may be 10 times cheaper, but it's also 10 times more CHEAPLY MADE. Crappy fabrics, crap stitching, gross fitting... want me to go on?

I hear what you say , CHINA LOVE

It's like they used to say about the COUTOURE . If designers REALLY create original pieces , they are IMPOSSIBLE to copy adequately , eg by ZARA , H&M, MANGO etc, and the ' exclusivity ' is combined , hopefully, with accessibility , in the form of ' original ' designer pret a porter , within the price -range of those fashion ' cognoscenti ' who can afford to ' save up ' and buy them .

I am NOT talking David and Victoria Beckham here, just the ' ordinary ' Joe , with fashion savvy !!!

I hope that I'm not talking through my hat , here !!!

Yours KIT

 

[strawberry daiquiri]

Oh I don't know any more, to me the designer collections can only properly survive in a society where there is an interest in their ideas by more than just their target audience, meaning those who can afford to pay their rolling figures. Those who can't afford what they charge can still be and are often still, interested in their work, because obviously they see this being reflected in the stock they will be eyeing in the months to come. Maybe of late there has been an increase in the runway to cheapway selling but it is at the end of the day a factor in the move to a more fashion-aware society where the less well-off can replicate what they like, and I don't see how this can be a bad thing It seems a lot of people, here and elsewhere are keen to see the designer look at the designer prices (and yes it is a unfair that you can't exactly patent your collection) but it is hardly right that those less fortunate on the money front should be expected to compromise their appreciation of trends and styles just so the rich can feel inferior on another level.

 

[Scott]

Well,you often here complaints from designers about the speed of the system and their hatred for it. Sounds like a good idea,mind you and I'm sure designers would love to have that added stress of presentation,just after you've completed a collection,eleviated somewhat.

As for copying,there's no way that's ever going to end. Of course,it's not just those franchised shops that are doing it,designers themselves are always copying other designers so I see no resolution in that if the idea is because of copying specifically.

 

[metal-on-metal]

I think that things really got extreme when the New York shows were pushed back to early/mid September a few years ago. Stores now get spring stock in late December and fall stock in late May. I sometimes feel like a season doesn't even get underway and the new styles are already flooding the market. How would someone get motivated to shell out mucho $$$$ for Prada's fall 2003 english housewife collection when they know it'll be completely passe once the New Year hits? In some cases, the imitations are on the street weeks before the authentic items arrive.

I feel like this is going to be a huge problem for the fashion industry in the next few years as more and more information will be available more quickly and more easily. Some may call it snobbery, and as much as I love seeing the shows the second they hit, I think sites like style.com can do a lot of harm.

However, on the flipside, rampant copying should spur designers to draw up more individual, creative pieces. NO ONE will be copying Balenciaga's dirndl dresses or Vuitton's $15,000 gold ostrich masterpiece this season simply because they can't. In a way, the constant copycatting by Zara and H&M, etc. really keeps designers in check. It poses the question to designers: If a high street shop can copy your designs and have them out cheaper and faster, what makes you so special?

 

[strawberry daiquiri]

Originally posted by chickonspeed@Jan 16th, 2004 - 11:58 pm
It poses the question to designers: If a high street shop can copy your designs and have them out cheaper and faster, what makes you so special?

Exactly.
Sometimes I think that they are just living off the reputation which preceded them rather than the merit of their actual and current work. On the other hand, they are already accused of creating garments too extravagent and unconventional for the real world and showing creative talent only because they are in a position to design clothes which would not sell mainstream (because who can afford to sacrifice so much money and practibility on masterpieces you can only wear once or twice). I suppose all the highstreet names would argue they too could create much more original and detailed items, did they not have to worry about the potential cost of losing sales due to alienation etc of their previous, reliant and faithful market

 

[ignitioned32]

I think it's highly relevant to show the photos a season later (The schedule will be the same except for Sept-Oct we will see the Fall shows and Feb-March the Spring). Fashion shows were very exclusive before. Only magazine editors and staff and buyers could attend those fashion shows and sketches (there were no photographers allowed during those days) of the collections were never fully published. That also prevented others from copying the designers clothes. So we have to be thankful that we have at least a chance to see the photos.

 

[Lena]

very interesting topic, real great viewpoints

to start with, yes, Didier is right, but he's also been a bit naive. regarding his accusing internet sourcing from the shows.
as long as there are photographers covering the shows, the industry will always have access to the collections as soon as they happen. eg. even if the internet did not publish there are proffessional photographers selling pictures from the catwalks to the big manufacturing houses, the very NEXT day after the shows
still, he's right in proposing show-less free season and a splash of publicity just before the collections hit the stores.
This will offer a relative security for the new collections.

could these meassures stop fashion piracy?
hmmm i dont think so...
Hyper brands like Zara etc, can just go shop the originals the day of 'release' and have the finished 'monkey' product in stores within ten days max.
So? whats all the fuzz about?

when Italian Fashion Federation discussed the problem in early december, Bretelli (Prada) voiced a much more clever reaction to fashion piracy, when saying that the industry should take copying as a 'compliment'. He said that brands that are copied, secure their position at the top of the luxury market, and he's right.
"better to be copied than be ignored" . His general idea was that success comes from being copied, but he also proposed -for Italian houses- to show 'parts' of the collection during the shows and actually sell a quite irrelevant product to the stores. This will make things very complicated but fashion piracy will still be there

from a designer's point of view i so agree with the following by scott:

Well,you often here complaints from designers about the speed of the system and their hatred for it. Sounds like a good idea,mind you and I'm sure designers would love to have that added stress of presentation,just after you've completed a collection,eleviated somewhat.

i also totally agree with this

As for copying,there's no way that's ever going to end. Of course,it's not just those franchised shops that are doing it,designers themselves are always copying other designers so I see no resolution in that if the idea is because of copying specifically.

 

[ignitioned32]

Originally posted by Lena@Jan 17th, 2004 - 3:04 pm
very interesting topic, real great viewpoints

to start with, yes, Didier is right, but he's also been a bit naive. regarding his accusing internet sourcing from the shows.
as long as there are photographers covering the shows, the industry will always have access to the collections as soon as they happen. eg. even if the internet did not publish there are proffessional photographers selling pictures from the catwalks to the big manufacturing houses, the very NEXT day after the shows
still, he's right in proposing show-less free season and a splash of publicity just before the collections hit the stores.
This will offer a relative security for the new collections.

could these meassures stop fashion piracy?
hmmm i dont think so...
Hyper brands like Zara etc, can just go shop the originals the day of 'release' and have the finished 'monkey' product in stores within ten days max.
So? whats all the fuzz about?

when Italian Fashion Federation discussed the problem in early december, Bretelli (Prada) voiced a much more clever reaction to fashion piracy, when saying that the industry should take copying as a 'compliment'. He said that brands that are copied, secure their position at the top of the luxury market, and he's right.
"better to be copied than be ignored" . His general idea was that success comes from being copied, but he also proposed -for Italian houses- to show 'parts' of the collection during the shows and actually sell a quite irrelevant product to the stores. This will make things very complicated but fashion piracy will still be there

from a designer's point of view i so agree with the following by scott:

Well,you often here complaints from designers about the speed of the system and their hatred for it. Sounds like a good idea,mind you and I'm sure designers would love to have that added stress of presentation,just after you've completed a collection,eleviated somewhat.

i also totally agree with this

As for copying,there's no way that's ever going to end. Of course,it's not just those franchised shops that are doing it,designers themselves are always copying other designers so I see no resolution in that if the idea is because of copying specifically.

Lena you said it all.

 

[mikeijames]

Originally posted by Lena@Jan 17th, 2004 - 3:04 pm
very interesting topic, real great viewpoints

to start with, yes, Didier is right, but he's also been a bit naive. regarding his accusing internet sourcing from the shows.
as long as there are photographers covering the shows, the industry will always have access to the collections as soon as they happen. eg. even if the internet did not publish there are proffessional photographers selling pictures from the catwalks to the big manufacturing houses, the very NEXT day after the shows
still, he's right in proposing show-less free season and a splash of publicity just before the collections hit the stores.
This will offer a relative security for the new collections.

could these meassures stop fashion piracy?
hmmm i dont think so...
Hyper brands like Zara etc, can just go shop the originals the day of 'release' and have the finished 'monkey' product in stores within ten days max.
So? whats all the fuzz about?

when Italian Fashion Federation discussed the problem in early december, Bretelli (Prada) voiced a much more clever reaction to fashion piracy, when saying that the industry should take copying as a 'compliment'. He said that brands that are copied, secure their position at the top of the luxury market, and he's right.
"better to be copied than be ignored" . His general idea was that success comes from being copied, but he also proposed -for Italian houses- to show 'parts' of the collection during the shows and actually sell a quite irrelevant product to the stores. This will make things very complicated but fashion piracy will still be there

from a designer's point of view i so agree with the following by scott:

Well,you often here complaints from designers about the speed of the system and their hatred for it. Sounds like a good idea,mind you and I'm sure designers would love to have that added stress of presentation,just after you've completed a collection,eleviated somewhat.

i also totally agree with this

As for copying,there's no way that's ever going to end. Of course,it's not just those franchised shops that are doing it,designers themselves are always copying other designers so I see no resolution in that if the idea is because of copying specifically.

wow...i agree completely

 

[Erzébeth]

anyone know if the amount of copied lvs has made an impact on the brand/sales?