Hedi Slimane Is The New Artistic Director Of Céline

Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by dodencebt, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. tricotineacetat

    tricotineacetat Well-Known Member

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    This is actually true. It wasn't so difficult for Vaccarello to fill in for Hedi at Saint Laurent because Hedi's approach was so formulaic there already; as good as it is to have a clear vision, but at a certain point it became all too clear what to expect from a Saint Laurent Paris collection by Hedi Slimane - Just as much as Kris Van Assche's tenure at Dior Homme where Hedi left an immense repertoire of rtue-and-tested best sellers (tailoring, jeans and sneakers), Vaccarello could easily 'remix' similar styles at Saint Laurent and add a more 'sexy' touch to the women's runway and call it a day - Meanwhile, the new Celine fails to incubate a hit item such as the immensely successful Wyatt boots Hedi designed for Saint Laurent.
     
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  2. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    A natural-born provocateur, Ms. Roitfeld, 64, is perfectly happy to take a swipe at the kind of crusty patrician style resurrected for fall by Hedi Slimane at Celine, and reinterpreted with deadening literalism in the September pages of Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar, where models are garbed in a profusion of so-called heritage looks: polo coats, glen plaids and pearls.
    To Ms. Roitfeld, those models stand in for a type. “I know this woman very well — I grew up around her,” said Ms. Roitfeld, who was reared in an affluent suburb of Paris. Wryly, she added: “This woman doesn’t have enough money to shop at Hermès, so she goes to Celine. She is not very nice to her maid.”

    Full article here - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/07/...is-the-celebrity-editor-becoming-extinct.html
     
  3. RuggingUpForTheWintour

    RuggingUpForTheWintour Active Member

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    Suede gloves come off!
     
  4. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately, Hedi’s mistake was his arrogance, as @Benn98 said!
    It was super arrogant to believe that because people missed you, you could just come back, do the same old thing with the same vision, expect an instant and massive success!

    But we are witnessing Hedi realizing things and adjusting slightly his vision. We will see more diversity ( Jason Bolden calling them out made news), he is speaking more to the Tiktok generation who is more Hip-Hop influenced than indie rock (we saw the menswear) and Lisa of Black Pink as an ambassador was a very clever idea! At YSL, he worked with celebrities but they were never tied with contracts!

    Of course sales increased. They can only increase from a decrease...

    Celine by Hedi Slimane is not an industrial flop! It’s just not the kind of success he had at YSL or Dior and it’s neither the kind of success LVMH expected ( they had 3 billions expectations of I remember).

    They have a promising Asian market and all their efforts will be focused there.


    His perfumes are really the best thing and I like how exclusive and yet mainstream it was as a launch! The boutique at St Honoré really stand out!
     
  5. Salvatore

    Salvatore Wanderlust

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    The girls are fighting ! :lol:
    The imagery this conjures up is incredible ! The snobbery of it all.
     
  6. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ For Carine to stoop to such cattiness must mean there was some bad blood between the two…

    But has he really adjusted to the less-than-stellar reception for his Celine???? Casting a more racially-diverse group of kidz and a trap soundtrack doesn’t change the fact that it’s more or less the same brand of basic indie streetwear designs.

    My wish would be that he would return to that brand of immaculate and impossibly refined tailoring and design that he put in for his YSL, and to an extend, his Dior Homme with Celine. I don’t wish to see Dior Homme v2.1, just that return to a sophisticated and deservedly more couture-y offering. He can still include the indie/garage band tribute that he seems so creepily fixated on. Along with arrogance, it really comes down to laziness. And in this instance, it’s likely a matter of both which is so... corporate... :sigh:
     
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  7. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think there’s bad blood between them...She wore Celine when she appeared on Quotidien (French talk show), she still uses Celine on her magazine and stuff.
    I think it’s something that was maybe lost in translation but I totally get what she is saying...The classical bourgeois look of Celine was really that. Hedi used it and made it maybe cooler but the essence of Celine is really that...The bourgeois YSL look is more a fantasy. In reality, they were buying Celine.

    I don’t know what I want from Hedi tbh. We are always referring to his past as if he hasn’t evolved since then. I think what he did at YSL Rive Gauche was really linked to who he was at that time and the idea of modernity in the 90’s was really a reaction to the 80’s and 70’s. Yes, it would look fresh today but I don’t think it’s necessary what I want.
    The problem with Hedi is that his work does not take inspiration from the past, it just recreate it and put it in a different context. It’s interesting to see Nicolas and Hedi working today. They have 3 years in age difference and while they both reference the past, their approach couldn’t be more different. One uses the past as a base for his creativity and the other uses the past as a emotional base in a way.

    What Hedi needs is simple: someone who can challenge his aesthetic and taste. Hedi creates, styles, casts, photographs, design the stores, the packaging and everything. His vision couldn’t be more linear. He should maybe work with Emmanuelle...Someone who can bring a fresher perspective to his work.
     
  8. Phuel

    Phuel Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Yes, I suppose Carine is just being frank. (I can picture her speaking these words...)

    Hedi remains a solid imagemaker/brandnbuilder. He also seems extremely difficult to suffer and as long as he remains reasonably influential, he’s going to continue at this trajectory. And despite how I feel about him, I find his brand of talent much more attractive— along with his ability for worldbuilding than Nicolas (who always comes across much more approachable with a more solid sense of self-awareness). And it’s because Hedi has shown to be a superior menswear designer — of which to be so distinct is so so so much harder than in womenswear, while Nicolas has never offered anything in the menswear department.

    However, with Nicolas, I always get the impression he’s saving his best designs-- biding for the right time. I’m not so sure anymore with Hedi.
     
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  9. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    If there’s one thing about Carine, is that she is very genuine. But at the same time, she is really not the type to display that kind of cattiness on such a public platform.

    What I hate about Hedi is that his confidence is on the verge of arrogance. I like that designers sometimes doubts, change things, evolve their aesthetic. I think his vision is great in menswear! Obviously, I’m more interested in womenswear (for obvious reasons) and I don’t think his vision is that singular in womenswear...
    Celine womenswear is fine on it own. There’s great tailoring, good timeless pieces but apart from the sequined pieces, most of the offering is not a fresh or new take on bourgeois dressing. But what he does in menswear is untouchable.

    Someone mentioned Burberry And I maybe repeat myself but I think the Hedi Approach is what Burberry should be: a slightly elevated version of clothes people wears, no insane creative thing. Just clothes that fix problem but not necessary vintage either.
     
  10. Benn98

    Benn98 Well-Known Member

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    Lol, Lola I don't think his ego is flexible enough to accommodate someone else vetting his work. Add to that the fact that Emmanuelle Alt goes into overboard mode for Anthony's collections each season in VP because there's that synergy. Creatively, he speaks her language. You think Hedi isn't aware of that? :lol:

    We've seen this trajectory thousand times over - new CDs struggling with the ghost of a former designer's dominating aesthetic. It took years for KVA to come into his own, others like Lapidus fizzled out almost instantly. In Hedi's case, he had full unilateral control to establish new codes at Celine in a very short amount of time, so we have to see and call it for what is it. A c0ck up of royal proportions. His collections look like SL knock-offs, the stores look like SL knock-offs, and his campaigns are as dull as dishwater. Hell, he even had the added advantage of a nondescript menswear platform where he could've explored entirely new codes since most modern consumers are not even aware that Celine had a menswear line.

    And regarding the Tik Tokers, the last menswear collection was abysmal. The pandering is both embarrassing and hilarious to witness because everyone sees it for what is is - theatre. To have moved from tailored classic dressing to streetwear style to teens so drastically? :lol: It's like the way he approaches diversity. We know it's disingenuous, he knows it, and the talent getting paid to participate knows it.

    About a year ago Piccioli did a short interview with Jay Fielden at Esquire, speaking about 'cool brands' which sort of stuck with me:

    Fielden: Speaking of youth, if fashion is about what’s going on at the moment, how do you continue to keep in touch with those things?
    Piccioli: It’s a big question. I will say Valentino is a beautiful brand, but being beautiful today is not enough. I think you have to be relevant for the moment, but cool is a difficult word. If you try hard to be cool, you will never be cool. My children never talk about coolness. You’re cool or you’re not cool. You don’t have to try.

    Fielden: So your kids, like mine, keep you grounded?
    Piccioli: Always! [Laughs] They never praise me. Never! I think they are the most honest people. When you do something, all they say is you shouldn’t do that. But I like that, because in my job it’s easy to get praise. And I’m very aware people don’t always mean it when they say, “Oh, it was great.”

    Fielden: Being a poetic soul, how did you come round to using logos?
    Piccioli: I wasn’t a big fan of the logo, because I lived through the ’80s and usually the logo was the cheapest part of a brand’s collection. But of course I don’t work alone. I have a team of people, and they have a voice, even the youngest. And talking with them, I saw they were obsessed with the Valentino logo. They used to buy pieces from Amazon. I said, “Why do you like this?” They explained the idea of the logo as expression, a way of belonging to a gang, in a way. Not to a dream. In the ’80s, the logo was like having a piece of the dream, of the lifestyle. Today it’s more an expression of yourself.

    So I rethought the logo with fresh eyes. That’s how VLTN was born. We have others from the ’60s and ’70s we use, too. But I don’t want to use them for commercial reasons. Every piece of VLTN, even the most luxurious pieces—even the double-faced cashmere coat—is approached like a T-shirt. I want it to have that freshness, to seem almost random.
     
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  11. FelipeV

    FelipeV Active Member

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    Every time someone say that he invented the skinny silhouette I can't avoid to think in Mugatu. He gives me that vibe :rofl:

    d2386598d2be9b6b1d9b5c6f35b1f88c.jpg
    memegenerator.com
     
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  12. tatouejeremie

    tatouejeremie Well-Known Member

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    bof
     
  13. THD96

    THD96 Well-Known Member

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    I guessed clowns earring and denim pants are not selling like they use too. May I suggest Lisa x Celine merch if they so desperate to hit that 3 billions goal. Celine is the only brand that LVMH seem so obsessed to turn multi billions profit, they don't do that with Kenzo, Givenchy or Marc Jacobs. It's scary at this point that they so determined on reach that profit goal that creativity is not even the main point to write about Celine anymore.

    And I assume the Celine logo without the ascent is just not as desirable despite all the endorsement. Third time's not a charm this time I guessed. I feel bad and not feel bad for Hedi at the same time. Because it's not easy dealing with your bosses when all they care is money, but the again he arrogant enough to think he can get away like he used to at Saint Laurent, he can only blame himself for put him in this situation. IDK but I have feeling he is not renew his contract after 5 years. And I'm scare for Celine post Hedi, because are we gonna have SL 2.0 where the next designer just keep milking his aesthetic.

    LOL at LVMH because they so obsessed with chasing SL clients that they lost a handful of Céline clients to the hand of Bottega Veneta, Hermes, The Row and I must add Peter Do. Someone said old Céline have Loewe but I don't see that. Johnathan is smart and talent enough to create his own vision without milking Phoebe aesthetic. Loewe woman is like Louis Vuitton woman now, quite a experimental and risk taker on the verge of looking like a fashion victim :ninja:.
     
  14. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    I think the unrealistic billions goal were made mainly because they had Hedi on board. The cult around him actually made players in the industry believe that he has that Midas touch.
    In a way, he has because he is a good creative director. But ultimately, it’s something that I’ve said many times, he was hugely helped, all his career with the iconic names attached to his work. YSL and Dior are names that has that magnet quality.

    It was so pretentious and presumptuous to believe that because he came back, people would follow him.

    The beauty of Phoebe’s work at Celine is that it was commercial but creative but also, it was never easy. She did logos, she did sweatshirts, she did denim but it was never pedestrian...

    Celine suffers from two much arrogance but Kenzo, Givenchy and Marc Jacobs suffers from a total lack of clear and strong creative direction...And products that matched that. Those brands are relying on branding and not products even if Givenchy has a iconic bag (Marc too in a way).

    It’s funny but like you, I have a hard time seeing Hedi continue at Celine or even in fashion. He is not open to change or collaborations and while he has a 360 vision, it seems contrived and the room for evolution seems limited.

    Men will always respond to his vision because nobody does like him but women...
    I think some of the clothes are great and I even wanted to buy a blazer after seeing it in Carine but apart from the perfumes, I don’t find anything really covetable at Celine anymore...I have moved to Bottega Veneta and Joseph.
     
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  15. entten

    entten Active Member

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    easily it would work. Its also the only reason why this brand is making money in Asia. Asian /Cpop/ Kpop culture has a crazy loyal follwoing. fans dont care what the brand is doing or who the desgner is. If they see Lisa Celine frontrow and being Tesimonial they will buy blindly. If Lisa or Jenny would be exclusive only Philipp Plein faces, they would stop buying Celine and buy his stuff.

    I could imagine if Hedi doesnt renew his contract they wouldnt stick to that kind of SL aesthetics. They clearly see how it goes at Bottega, so my assumption would be that they try to hire another Celine alumni like Daniel Lee and give #oldceline a boost
     
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  16. THD96

    THD96 Well-Known Member

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    Joseph Altuzarra? Really... I find him direction less and too "New York" to be in Paris. Even Posh Spice is better than him I think. Bottega is "fun" but to me is still lacking that sophistication that only Phoebe have. I feel guilty but I like The Row because it's like Céline twin sister nothing groundbreaking but it's soothing my craving for Phoebe at the moment.
     
  17. entten

    entten Active Member

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    I think shes talking about Joseph the brand
     
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  18. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    As @entten confirmed, I was talking about Joseph, the British contemporary brand. It’s RTW, it’s honest and beautifully done. I also buy Acne Studio because it has the same vibe...
    Ultimately, what I find in BV is the feeling of HF. I’m shopping differently there than when Phoebe was at Celine.

    Celine was really about the idea of a wardrobe. There were classics (not basics) and more « edgy » pieces and the beauty about it is that I wear pieces from Phoebe first collection with a piece from her last runway collection. And indeed, it was very sophisticated.
    Bottega Veneta is for the showpieces. I like that it looks simple enough in silhouettes but very much high fashion in details. I’m not interested in the bags or shoes. I really like the clothes and jewelry .But BV is not a brand I would go for a pantsuit, a classic coat, a pair of jeans or even a simple dress. There are many brands with lower price-point for that.
     
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  19. tricotineacetat

    tricotineacetat Well-Known Member

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    But aren't Hedi's pantsuits still the epitome of great cut and fabrication today as they have been since Dior, and thus, timeless? He may not be the most innovative designer to date, but when we talk about a suit in the parameters of one that is made in the facon of a menswear suit, his' have all the traditional features you would never find in any women's tailoring.
     
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  20. Lola701

    Lola701 Well-Known Member

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    He is still great in that. His clothes are still well made but I think men are maybe more sensible to it in order to buy it season after season.
    I will lie to you if I said that his tailoring is not desirable. But I need more...
    I have one suit And a blazer from his DH days. They are still the chicest things.

    But Vaccarello is doing a serious job in maintaining the status of YSL in tailoring and it does hurt Slimane IMO (in womenswear).
     

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