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Discussion in 'Designers and Collections' started by tatouejeremie, Dec 11, 2020.
That's why they won't match the OTB expectations. Now I understand the reason behind mentioning the Meiers as possible candidates to the Givenchy job. I'm pretty sure OTB will create another Marni-like situation if the news is true because they've been investing so hard in more conceptual brands yet they don't understand them at all.
This poor brand, always going through it. And it actually has so much potential.
If this is turning out to be true, of one thing we can be certain:
it is going to be the end of JS.
It sounds like Rosso & company are on a single mission: to destroy the most interesting brands out there.
I already can see acid-washed denim at Jil Sander....
It make sense for Rosso. I mean, Diesel is a mess and the only way for them to grow now is to acquire brands that have a good potential. And I feel like he is still looking for the brand that can take Diesel's place in his portfolio. Unfortunately, despite having one of the most interesting portfolio in the industry, he is consistenly destroying the identity of the brands he owns and therefore loosing that core customer base so essential to help the push of a brand.
And I kind of liked the boring-chic of Lucie and Luke...oh well, another house bites the dust.
At least we can still trust in outstanding talents like Gabriela Hearst to redefine style for this new decade...
Phoebe Philo would be ideal at Jil
There is only one person right for the job and that is Ms Jil Sander herself. Hopefully someone can persuade her to come back for the fourth time and keep her there. The Philo copycats will be shaking in their boots if the OG minimalism queen comes swinging into the 2020s. She could easily take out the competition with the right exposure and a good bag designer. I enjoyed her comeback in 2013. I would like to see her style return to the new decade. Wishful thinking I know, but you never know what could happen...
Maybe - Renzo did give John a job.
is that a positive now?
anyway, i doubt jil sander herself would want to deal with renzo rosso
Exactly. She had her more than fair share of incompetent and malicious male egotism with Mr Bertelli to find the energy to deal with another dull suit (in jeans) at the age of seventy.
I don’t even know the full Jil story I just know she signed a bad deal like lots of other designers including John. But just like John - it’s not my fault she can’t read a contract. And bertelli is running a business - imagine thinking the company funding you views you as an equal. Obviously if Jil was beretellis equal then she wouldn’t need him yes?
and she still does need him obviously since he owns her name and she cannot even produce anything with it. Whoops Jilly your white privilege didn’t work out like you thought.
reminds me of the Taylor swift situation. You’re in a position millions of people would love to have, even with your messed up contract. So be quiet.
In a way Jil not working at her own brand has made her an even more important designer bc she’s really never had a chance to fail! Lol. If she was doing her brand now we would be tired of her look. We only remember the good. Thank Bertelli for that.
Wow, Fakeawake, lol. Did she steal your girlfriend?
I dunno, I don't think she should go back. Jil should continue filling her days by decorating gardens on villas where nobody is allowed. Who wants to be kept awake at ungodly hours worrying why TikTokers arent connecting onto your brand? Especially in your 70s? Because that's the reality of such a job. Not everyone is a Karl Largerfeld though others certainly front as though they are (*cough* Nicolas, Virgil *cough*)
The last time Jil Sander, the brand, was relevant was during Raf's tenure and that's proof enough that the right talent can still define what the brand is about. Because Raf didn't do endless beiges and oversized coats but still made it work and probably even moved away from the signature but not too drastic. The Swiss couple bore me and that's not something you want to be known for in an era where so many microbrands are popping up. Their looks are not offensive, but it's like a Cartier ad in a magazine. You give it one glance and flip right past, never to think about it again.
The problem I have with Renzo is that his successes outside Diesel are dependent on the talent and I'm not yet sure if that's a good or a bad thing. He's not an expert marketer, anyone can sell perfumes and bags. If he was then why is Diesel so dead when denim is as big as ever? Just look at Margiela. It's as popular as it is right now because every season editors and stylists across the globe flock to see a John Galliano collection (sorry Margiela fans, that's what the brand is about in 2020!). And after that, they raze the earth just to get the opportunity to shoot looks from that collection despite Margiela not actually engaging in ad spend. Everything depends on John. And because John is so versed in RTW as well that is what is helping Margiela making strides in retail.
And then you look at Viktor and Rolf where they're experiencing one issue after the other. I'm sure they make the core income from perfumes. Can't be RTW because those Dutchies don't have an understanding of it. And Renzo can't be bothered to even try marketing the brand in its current state.
OTB is where a brand goes to die!
Well, Jil came back to Uniqlo for their collaboration so it's not like she cannot produce anything under her own name. And it's not like the contract was always the problem neither, the last time she stepped down in 2013 was because her partner was dying from cancer and Jil wanted to spend the last moments together.
Oh, and Bertelli has nothing to do with the brand now, he sold it in 2006.
No, she did not signed a bad deal.
To her credit, I just think she was a victim of the time. Brands like Helmut Lang, Jil Sander, Margiela and others weren’t considered luxury brands at the time. That word was used for Heritage brands-leather goods houses. Those are brands that sold clothes and also brands where the value was still the designer, because they were founders of the brands. So Jil was the biggest asset of her brand because she made it a such a strong business.
Unfortunately, Bertelli runed à luxury brand and wanted to carry the model of Prada through all the houses they bought. It failed with all the brands: Jil Sander, Helmut Lang and Alaia.
Bertelli has the reputation for being very tough ( I would rather work with Arnault than him) so, they just decided, both Jil and Helmut, to leave. But Alaia bought his brand back.
So, it wasn’t a Galliano-type contract. Galliano and Jacobs made the wrong decision by not being equally part owners of their brands. The saddest thing for Galliano is that his house was never profitable and survived because of LVMH’s involvement and the licensing deals.
I loved Raf’s work for Jil Sander but let’s not forget that it wasn’t a big commercial success. It was culturally relevant and the creativity and the life he brought back to the house was amazing but the Swiss couple has managed to speak to a new generation I think. I don’t know if it’s that successful in womenswear but I see a lot of young men being interested in Jil Sander again.
I totally agree with you regarding Renzo Rosso. He is a great business man but I think he has a complex compared to all the fashion executives. He cannot seat at the table with LVMH, PRADA, Kering, Richemont or even Moncler. His flagship brand is failing.
In the 2000’s he was the star because Diesel was such a big name and revolutionized the way people consumed fashion but today the real star in Italy is Remo Ruffini. He has transformed Moncler in such an amazing way in less than 15 years. The house has a strong commercial success, a strong critical acclaim and it has maintain that air of exclusivity and creativity.
Renzo Rosso has the most amazing portfolio of brands but he does not manage to make the most out of them. Instead of choosing a specific model for him, like Ruffini did, he tries to follow the steps of the big ones. Marni, because of the leather goods heritage, is the only house that has the potential to compete with the big ones but he has destroyed it identity.
It’s interesting that he has a production and distribution partnership with Dsquared2 but he does not take inspiration from their business model.
On the paper, Jil Sander makes sense next to Margiela and Marni much like it made sense next to Prada and Helmut Lang but we know it will be a mess.
^^ Further to Lola's consideration, which I totally agree with:
Bertelli is not just a tough businessman - can you ever be a sweet one, btw? - he's cynical and sly and he's proved it in different occasions (like buying a once flourishing brand like Genny only to downsize it until it basically disappeared and put his fingers on its manufacturing plants, which is what he was interested to begin with).
There's always been a rumor circulating around the JS and HL deals, that Prada was not really into a minimalist luxury conglomerate as much as doing away with its closer competitors. The first thing he did with Jil Sander was shutting down the German factories and that was a first sign the the quality standard, so crucial to the brand up to that point, was going to drop; another move that confirms this suspicion was the choice to stop the HL jeans line, one certainly not motivated on commercial reasons.
Also, I think one thing is being tough, another altogether is being rude, and apart from his wife, who can afford the luxury to send Bertelli to hell, I can't think of another lady who would like to put up with a bully like him on a daily basis.
What the heck does white privilege have to do with this? Since when is being caucasian a fault in itself, regardless of the context? Can we keep this conversation free from random identity-politics jargon ?
I used tough because I think it's the right word for him. And I don't mean tough in business, he is rude and tough and dealing with designers is dealing with egos. When those designers are already rich and have succeed on their own, you needs to be very diplomatic in the way you deal with them.
I don't think Bertelli gave the most respect to Jill and Helmut. But Alaia is not one to be played with so, he handled him with a little bit more diplomacy.
Bernard Arnault is someone who can seduce you. His whole take over of LVMH is a mastermind in manipulation and diplomacy. He is someone who understands designers because he dealt with Marc Bohan at a time when designers were divas.
We have to remember that there was battle between LVMH and Prada for Fendi and Karl used all his power in LVMH's advantage and I think he knew that Bertelli was a lot of work to deal with.
But going back to Renzo Rosso, I'm thinking about the infamous Lucinda Chambers interview when she mentioned the fact that Renzo still listen to Anna. And it goes well with the complex that I expressed earlier. He wants to be approved by a certain elite of fashion. So, he hired people Anna suggested. In a way, it has worked perfectly for him in terms of PR. I don't think the names Margiela and Marni were ever that popular (even if in Margiela's case, the obsession started in the early 00's).
I wonder why he does not buy the Galliano brand. I assume that the brand was still marketable but maybe I'm wrong...
Obviously, you cannot build an empire with John Galliano but a small, exclusive and Couture-oriented operation can be great as a PR for him...Because I think John at Margiela will be a phase and the next person for the job might go back to the essence of the brand in terms of aesthetic.
The Alaia operation was totally different, it wasn't as much a classic acquisition as a form of partnership, where production and distribution (of leathergoods in particular) had to put in place, which is what they did.
And there's another little detail: behind Azzedine was already Carla Sozzani (who might have played a role in the deal) and Bertelli, at least in this case, had the decency to tread very carefully around the Sozzani sisters.
Lola, I don't know if you are aware of it, but you have just described a loser.