Saint Laurent F/W 13.14 Paris

[blackcherrified]

Supporters! Haters! I have a question.

Let's take away all that labels, all that SLP-or-YSL/liberalisation-of-fashion baggage.

Now look at the clothes, just look at the clothes. Imagine if they are found in a multi-label boutique somewhere somehow, just hanging in the racks of thousand of pieces in that boutique.

Would you buy the clothes at that price?

If you would, good for SLP, good for Hedi Slimane, he has a customer in you.

If you wouldn't, like me, well, it's bad for PPR then.

This entire hoo-haa is a business. It's all about the sales and everything. Personally, I don't think the collection appeals to me as clothes themselves, not my style, not my taste.

I think for this case there's no point talking about "going back to the roots of YSL/respecting the original designer/yada yada..." Seriously, fashion is all about the clothes themselves. There's no point defending/hating Hedi if you are not going to wear the clothes yourself, or buy the accessories from the brand.

 

[Zazie]

In Alicia Drake’s book, The Beautiful Fall, a wonderful portrayal mirroring the careers of Karl Lagerfeld and Yves Saint Laurent in 1970s, Saint Laurent is credited as having popularized ready-to-wear in 1966 as a means to “democratize fashion.” Lest we forget, Yves Saint Laurent invented Le Smoking–a novel nod to androgynous dressing that maintained the antiquated spirit of feminine elegance.

Isn’t this precisely what Slimane is trying to do? Appeal to a different, perhaps larger, audience? The democratization of fashion at YSL in 1966 is not so different from the shift we’re seeing at Saint Laurent now. The underlying problem here, I believe, is that it seems like we’re way past the point of democratization. (Especially, when referring to a fashion house with such an extensive aura of highbrow radiating around it).

Hmm...Slimane seems to be confusing the issues here - YSL "democratized" fashion by infusing his high collections with interpretations of FRINGE elements, Slimane thinks he's "democratizing" fashion by infusing his collections with MASS MARKET elements (Forever 21, TopShop, etc.), and then charging luxury prices for them, just like Marie Antoinette, how twee! It's in fact the reverse of what YSL did, and also what the Forever-Self-Indulgent MJ did with the first expensive Grunge... .

I dislike either way, the first smacks of insensitive exploitation in the form of a paean, the latter displays incredible narcissism. I'd rather fashion simply be honest.

 

[fashionista-ta]

^^ i disagree. i own a couple pairs of ysl shoes--not triumphs, i might add. i find the hedi era so offensive that i have specific plans not to buy anything else from the house until he is gone. but there are plenty of labels from which i own nothing that i can appreciate based on the quality of the design & workmanship, even when they're not to my taste. and we're all at least somewhat invested in fashion as a whole ... we want to see good designers & good work do well. so obviously it's discouraging when management of the huge conglomerates, some of whom don't seem to share our interest in good design, take decisions that result in debacles like this one.

 

[Izreal]

i don't see anything dishonest, quite the contrary... he's taking everyday basics/classics and re-interpreting them in a ultra-high quality understated sleek version. that to me is a thousand times more honest, if you grasp the concept, then poor quality items that costs $$$ only because the logo is stamped onto it (let's face it a lot of high-end houses are about the logo/monogram not quality these days). the denim is a perfect example: pilati era YSL jeans used poor quality denim with YSL embossed in the back pockets, slimane SLP uses top quality Japanese selvedge denim with zero exterior branding..

 

[Zazie]

^^ I mean, then why the whole exhaustive exercise of making Forever21 teenage designs into luxury for the rich? Yes, there is that perversity, but only if the subject is worthy. And no, leather dresses cut to the crotch aren't "basics", and I wish he'd spared us the spectacle of unattractive middle-aged celebrities strutting out in those....ugh...as only they have the deep enough pockets and the narcissism. It's so many layers of and and in this whole affair.

I wish he'd done t-shirts, white shirts, suits, etc...now those are basics which could be made special.

Vivienne Westwood brought punk into her collections, as did McQueen with Goth, but they were contemporaries of those teenage rebels and experienced the subculture for themselves, which gave a ring of authenticity to their collections. LA rich little hipsters nostalgic for 90s Grunge (incidentally a "Grunge" that has been exploited over and over by mass market brands) simply isn't the same, and which is why it rubs so many of us the wrong way, like a Marie Antoinette fashion moment. A stupid faux pas that shows Slimane is truly out of touch, and living in his own special bubble.

If he gets one more chance, he should simply do what he used to do best, and based on the most out of what the YSL atelier could offer, send out well-made suits for those hankering after them.

 

[ogepma]

Supporters! Haters! I have a question.

Let's take away all that labels, all that SLP-or-YSL/liberalisation-of-fashion baggage.

Now look at the clothes, just look at the clothes. Imagine if they are found in a multi-label boutique somewhere somehow, just hanging in the racks of thousand of pieces in that boutique.

Would you buy the clothes at that price?

If you would, good for SLP, good for Hedi Slimane, he has a customer in you.

If you wouldn't, like me, well, it's bad for PPR then.

This entire hoo-haa is a business. It's all about the sales and everything. Personally, I don't think the collection appeals to me as clothes themselves, not my style, not my taste.

I think for this case there's no point talking about "going back to the roots of YSL/respecting the original designer/yada yada..." Seriously, fashion is all about the clothes themselves. There's no point defending/hating Hedi if you are not going to wear the clothes yourself, or buy the accessories from the brand.

You ask a very good question. Honestly, from his first menswear collection, there are some really good pieces (those high waisted pants are a dream). But from what he has showed this winter, I will most probably walk past them at a multi-label boutique. My reason is that I can find it anywhere for a fraction of the price.

I don't just criticize what he is doing because I am simply a fan of the house and what it is supposed to stand for but I am also one of these so-called customers he is beginning to alienate. I have been buying YSL for over 5 years now and I literally own at least an item from almost every type of clothing and accessory that the house offers. I usually even make orders before the collections are delivered and have them put on hold for me, sometimes for months. I have built a good relationship with the staff in the closest YSL boutique to me and that's probably the only reason why I will still go there.

The main point of keeping a brand alive is usually because of what it stands for and also, keeping the legacy/heritage alive. If Hedi wants to do what he wants, what stops him from opening his own brand. I know many are trying to sway some intellectualism into this collection about how Saint Laurent was a rebel and always broke the rules; difference is, he brought something new to the table. Granted, the quality of this would be top notch (no doubt about that, seen some pieces from my last trip to the store and they were exactly what you expect for paying such huge sums, nothing more), but at the same time, Hermes, Louis Vuitton and even Prada have stuff that are equally as good or even better in terms of quality. So using that to justify it does not go anywhere because it has and will always be a requirement for high fashion RTW (at least from the big brands).

It is very clear that it is a business, and the ultimate aim is to make money (at least for the shareholders of PPR), but there has to be a balance which I think they had before. Prada and Comme Des Garcon for instance; I believe these two brands have almost perfect business models.

 

[Izreal]

The difference is Forever21/UO etc are cheap copies on popular vintage trends, Hedi isn't copying them it's usually the reverse, his inspiration is of the actual movement/subculture.. you say vivienne & Mcqueen experienced it themselves.. this is true for Hedi as well, every season since his first Dior show he's broken in a new underground music band... he's befriended practically the whole independant music/cinema industry from doherty to gus vansant.. and spends most of his off-time at indie concerts/pubs trying to scout actual musicians/models.. which he incorporates in his shows. this rings a lot more authentic then 95% other designers and their staged theatrics..

 

[LUXXX]

Damn, Cathy is not playing... she read Hedi like an expert drag queen.

 

[Deleted member 7575]

Damn, Cathy is not playing... she read Hedi like an expert drag queen.

No T, no shade!

 

[untxi]

Riiiight.. all the positive reviews are "sugar coating" and "liars" (as i previously heard you mention) but Cathy's is the pure unbiased truth... LOL

My thoughts exactly. Besides, did anyone seriously expect anything else from Horyn re: Slimane?

 

[Izreal]

You ask a very good question. Honestly, from his first menswear collection, there are some really good pieces (those high waisted pants are a dream). But from what he has showed this winter, I will most probably walk past them at a multi-label boutique. My reason is that I can find it anywhere for a fraction of the price.

I don't just criticize what he is doing because I am simply a fan of the house and what it is supposed to stand for but I am also one of these so-called customers he is beginning to alienate. I have been buying YSL for over 5 years now and I literally own at least an item from almost every type of clothing and accessory that the house offers. I usually even make orders before the collections are delivered and have them put on hold for me, sometimes for months. I have built a good relationship with the staff in the closest YSL boutique to me and that's probably the only reason why I will still go there.

The main point of keeping a brand alive is usually because of what it stands for and also, keeping the legacy/heritage alive. If Hedi wants to do what he wants, what stops him from opening his own brand. I know many are trying to sway some intellectualism into this collection about how Saint Laurent was a rebel and always broke the rules; difference is, he brought something new to the table. Granted, the quality of this would be top notch (no doubt about that, seen some pieces from my last trip to the store and they were exactly what you expect for paying such huge sums, nothing more), but at the same time, Hermes, Louis Vuitton and even Prada have stuff that are equally as good or even better in terms of quality. So using that to justify it does not go anywhere because it has and will always be a requirement for high fashion RTW (at least from the big brands).

It is very clear that it is a business, and the ultimate aim is to make money (at least for the shareholders of PPR), but there has to be a balance which I think they had before. Prada and Comme Des Garcon for instance; I believe these two brands have almost perfect business models.

Here is the deal, Slimane and more importantly those in power at PPR know exactly what they're doing and are well aware of the risk of alienating the ex-YSL clientele, actually they are probably looking forward to that as the whole point of such a make over was to reach a different type of clientele.. obviously that's creating a lot of turmoil amongst past fans of the house, and i understand why but at the risk of being blunt: dices have been rolled, pilati got the axe and hedi's in control.. i do suggest people unhappy with the change vote with their wallet and start shopping elsewhere, unfortunately for you guys though i doubt we will see a new direction anytime soon, the investments for the whole make over certainly being substantial, as for profits time will tell if the changes were worth it, but if he manages to pull off what he did at DH, then YSL management should rejoice..

 

[Deleted member 7575]

The difference is Forever21/UO etc are cheap copies on popular vintage trends, Hedi isn't copying them it's usually the reverse, his inspiration is of the actual movement/subculture.. you say vivienne & Mcqueen experienced it themselves.. this is true for Hedi as well, every season since his first Dior show he's broken in a new underground music band... he's befriended practically the whole independant music/cinema industry from doherty to gus vansant.. and spends most of his off-time at indie concerts/pubs trying to scout actual musicians/models.. which he incorporates in his shows. this rings a lot more authentic then 95% other designers and their staged theatrics..

Usually. That's the key word. This is the trickle up effect in full effect, not in terms of sub or alternative culture affecting the upper echelons of society/taste, but mass fashion affecting luxury. It's the triumph of the lowest common denominator, not individualistic, vital, youthful energy. That's the real phenomenon at hand here and you can pretend he is channeling Yves' legacy, this wishful idea that it somehow breaks new ground, but that only discredit's Yves' real innovations and contribution.

Hedi uses music as a way to gauge the times and he's been very successful with this model up until now. Sure he found some new bands, sure he's in tune with their energies, and sure, he's communicating that energy in his show. But the problem is that the music, the energy and those bands are no longer relevant. Perhaps we need a music critic to review this collection to illustrate just how trite it is. This scene that Hedi is obsessed with was interesting maybe 6 years ago, when Hedi left Dior, but music, just like fashion, changes. And Rock n Roll, and specifically this iteration of it, is no longer provocative and no obnoxious show, or awkward photos of Kate Moss's *** in rhinestone tights, or the new and embarrassingly obvious Punk exhibit at the Met is going to change that. Rock N Roll is played out, it's as tired as these clothes, it's got nothing new, smart, or worthwhile to say. Perhaps it could, but this isn't managing it. You can Peter Doherty/Gus Van Sant it up all you want but it will only mark you as being behind the times. So while you may think this collection has the spirit of Yves in it's challenge of society, that claim is as shallow as the lifestyle and culture that Hedi so tediously celebrates on his catwalk. Hedi is seeking the restorative powers of youth in the wrong place and as a result he's steering the house into a dead end.

Again, I'll bring up Kenzo's Lim and Leon who have identified and harnessed a new youth energy, one that has nothing to do with Rock n Roll. Could they be doing better clothes with this energy? Absolutely, but they are the only ones who have acknowledged it and that's what you need to do first to find a new direction.

You know, Hedi wasn't always about druggy looking mangy rockers, remember the Berlin Skaters? The Schoolboy? Remember his minimalist days at YSL? His repertoire is much bigger than Peter Doherty and it would serve him will to drop that crutch and either move on or at least go a little further back.

 

[disco54]

Nobody really cares if Hedi spends time at rock clubs on his extended boy safaris looking for models to look more authentic, the bottom line is his recent collections for YSL are garbage and there is no sugar coating that. Comparing a fashion genius like Alexander Mcqueen with Slimane is a big joke. As far as vintage goes, Hedi's first collection looked like literal copies of high street intepretations of 60/70s fashions , with no creativity or depth whatsoever , the second outing being far worse.

 

[Izreal]

Mutterlain, as a professional musician myself i find your comment interesting as it reveals a fundamental diverging outlook on the artistic direction. I've had this debate many times with management in various labels. There are 2 schools of though when it comes to this: the purist which lives a 100% within one aesthetic/genre, and the trend setter/follower that surfs on popular trends or attempts to foresee them. Hedi Slimane is of the first category, his vision is absolute and uncompromising: he's got an undying love affair with rock'n'roll.. again as a musician i find it funny people proclaiming "rock n roll is played out/dead" as if it were some novelty or prehistoric genre. IMO, within music genres, rock'n'roll is perhaps one of the most timeless in contemporary music. there are of course many many subgenres withtin it, grunge being one of them and a clear inspiration for this season.. i personally enjoy the coherence and constance that hedi applies towards this, again it feels a lot more honest then other houses surfing on the latest trends and risk being played out by the following season (something corporate actually encourages as it feeds the untiring need of renewal/consumption)

 

[iluvjeisa]

Nobody really cares if Hedi spends time at rock clubs on his extended boy safaris looking for models to look more authentic, the bottom line is his recent collections for YSL are garbage and there is no sugar coating that. Comparing a fashion genius like Alexander Mcqueen with Slimane is a big joke. As far as vintage goes, Hedi's first collection looked like literal copies of high street intepretations of 60/70s fashions , with no creativity or depth whatsoever , the second outing being far worse.

And that copying approach was one he shared with Tom Ford, only I think Slimane picked a better YSL epoche to copy....I thought last season was rather good, really, because of that perfect sampling.

But this collection, oh my lord....I just wish they could fold the entire house.

 

[Uemarasan]

Gus Van Sant? The world of cinema has moved on from him. The last "hip" movie he made was Paranoid Park. Maybe if Slimane were friends with Lena Dunham (much as I dislike her), then this aesthetic would be more convincing. But I don't think she'd be shopping at Saint Laurent...

 

[Not Plain Jane]

The collection is inspired by rock n' roll and I do NOT think rock n' roll is dead or will ever be! What about The Kills? They aren't grunge, but clearly Mosshart is an inspiration here; I can definitely see her wearing some of this - or even the Deadweather with Jack White. It's a gamble and it's niche in a way, but the collection will appeal to 20s - 40s imo. 20s who want something darker, not the manufactured pop of the surface, and 40s who remember the 90s and feel a connection. Again, it'll be people who have money - it has to be! That's why I say "niche". Grunge was in the air anyhow; Dries' spring collection was a luxury and lovely interpretation of it for an older working clientele, more bourgeois. Hedi's collection/reiteration is for a different group, younger, perhaps with inherited wealth and/or creative types in music/film. That's how I'd see it. I am curious to know what the price point of these looks will be!!

 

[darkskinee]

My instincts tell me that all this hate over Hedi and complain about how he's destroying the YSL image ,as they know it, is just going to create a stronger desire for its new target demographic. I have read a lot of commentaries about the outcome of the show trying to figure things out myself and had a 'keyser soze' moment. I think there's a grand plan for all of this, Hedi is super obsessive compulsive with details and I'm sure he had expected this backlash can happen. But that's probably part of the plan. If it is and this collection becomes a success to the new audience and translates to good sales, then cot damn

 

[Izreal]

..how pretentious to suggest who one should be friends with.. besides as my above comment suggests, hedi is more influenced with "classic" arts/personas, not so much the latest gimmick/trend.. on a mass appeal scale, one could note that it was to his advantage in the early-mid 2000's when indie rock peaked, and one could think he is "clinging to the past" as he's still obviously enamored with rock'n'roll vibes but i think he's truly passionate about it, he's always been since his first david bowie record which was a seminal influence on him if i remember correctly.. anyways it his vision/aesthetic .. and there is a certain merit in keeping it coherent no matter if it's considered behind (which is purely subjective anyways)

 

[bearbrick]

Mutterlain, as a professional musician myself i find your comment interesting as it reveals a fundamental diverging outlook on the artistic direction. I've had this debate many times with management in various labels. There are 2 schools of though when it comes to this: the purist which lives a 100% within one aesthetic/genre, and the trend setter/follower that surfs on popular trends or attempts to foresee them. Hedi Slimane is of the first category, his vision is absolute and uncompromising: he's got an undying love affair with rock'n'roll.. again as a musician i find it funny people proclaiming "rock n roll is played out/dead" as if it were some novelty or prehistoric genre. IMO, within music genres, rock'n'roll is perhaps one of the most timeless in contemporary music. there are of course many many subgenres withtin it, grunge being one of them and a clear inspiration for this season.. i personally enjoy the coherence and constance that hedi applies towards this, again it feels a lot more honest then other houses surfing on the latest trends and risk being played out by the following season (something corporate actually encourages as it feeds the untiring need of renewal/consumption)

Well then , Hedi Slimane ought to bring his "absolute vision " and become a full time musician and not pretend to be a designer.