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Discussion in 'Rumor has it...' started by ThatDudeOverTher, Dec 1, 2017.
Bruce Weber is married to a woman? Is he not gay?
^Lol if you knew how much men married to women are gay or bi
I am not surprised at all about Bruce. For me, he is the Harvey of the fashion industry. He used to be one of my favorite photographers until i know about his behaviour towards models. I am looking forward to see his career end.
I find it interesting that the credibility of this male model is now being called into question. Would people do the same if he was female? Never! We had women who took hush money from Harvey, some who worked or crossed his path numerous times after their alleged attacks, yet they still got the support and benefit if the doubt. Nobody dared to question what their motivation could be. And some were in precarious positions, washed up careers etc etc.
This is the tide I was referring to in another thread, that people will begin to second guess the victims. It's just a bit disappointing that it must be guys. Sexual violence against men are very, very rarely recorded not only because our psyche is different and the stigma attached to masculinity, but also this form of second guessing.
I suppose this reaction is only natural when you're confronted by a huge influx of victims coming forward, and an icon who's work you admire.
I have heard so many stories from male models, but things about Bruce always seem more light-handed than things about M.T. --- I think the things that might come out about him will be much worse. I think the industry has a power abuse problem overall, and specifically with male models, who don't have a lot of power in the industry, it's so dangerous.
Michael Thompson or Mario Testino? I've never heard anything about them, to be honest....
Not because some of us can toughen up and brave an assault, does it mean that others have to as well. To each their own. There's no standard.
And doubting him just because he's a man and he's 28 years old, and that he stopped modeling for some years now.. is seriously problematic.
And ever thought that maybe the reason why he's only speaking up now is that because of what's happening in the US lately? People are actually starting to listen up and see this as a real problem. People are invested. There's now a platform for them to speak up.
Most definitely the latter. Trust me, the stories have been going around for a while.
Who do you think this was alluding to?
An unknown model who suddenly decides to not just speak up, but sue and try to settle for money? Doesn't that seem opportunistic at all? and I'm not just saying it because he's a male model, I understand that sexual assault goes both ways.
We'll see if more people come forward though.
Jason Boyce is with DT Model Management. He’s still a model.
He didn’t have to take on Bruce. He merely had to speak up and/or refuse to shoot with Bruce in 2014 if he felt so violated. Even now had he spoken up— and I believe him, and not brought forth a lawsuit, that would have more of a powerful impact. The lawsuit only implies monetary gains by his current actions. My reservations about the case has nothing to do with him being a man. I would feel the same towards a plaintiff who is a woman.
Lupita’s revelation on Harvey was an extremely powerful piece; she even admitted that as inappropriate as his behaviour seemed to her, she still invited him to her performance in school— because of who he was clearly, and what his support for her could mean for her career. And she never pursued any legal actions. And that made her accusations that much more powerful, and lethally damning towards that man. This case is taking advantage of the witchburning frenzy of the moment, and purely motivated by monetary gains.
To read the absolute condemnation of Bruce in some of these posts is frighening: Because of Bruces's depiction of men— which some don’t like (which never crossed into degradation nor machismo level), he deserves to be taken out… I shoot men with similar sexually-charged sensibilities, and never have I treated anyone indecently with whom I’m working with: It’s all an illusion. If some here viewed my portfolio, then I must be a perv and abuse men… Of course unlike Bruce, I’m a nobody— but I would never be so unprofessional as to treat anyone in such a demeaning manner. Ever. It’s amazing how some condemn stereotypes with such fervor— but make exceptions when it suits their prejudices.
Dietprada has a few DMs on their story that recount a few people's experiences with Bruce.
Pretty shocked by the number of users here attempting to diminish the model's credibility. I certainly didn't see this happen with any of Weinstein's female accusers on here.
I styled test shoots exclusively for 3 years in NYC(some years ago) for all the big agencies and got really close to a few of the models and the stories I would hear from these tall boys and big grown men totally frightened me. The deeper I get into this industry the more seedy it appears. I witnessed a photographer who is mentioned in the comments on this thread pull in his p**** out on a dinner table at a restaurant during an after shoot dinner and point to a woman who worked on the shoot and said "I'm going to f*** you". In that moment I was so angry, my face was beat red, I had to leave and begged the mentioned woman to leave with me. No one said a WORD to the photographer and his assistant said "owe he does this all the time"
Me and the women shared a cab, she cried the entire ride, she told me it triggered her because she had abused by a photographer before.
THE AMOUNT OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT IN FASHION IS BEYOND.
I hope more victims come forward.
has there been any response from weber yet?
No, probably learned from the Kevin Spacey incident that putting out a statement will seal the deal unless well thought-out. As for the people in this thread attempting to delegitimize this young man's claim because he filed it in a proper lawsuit, look, he said he'd quit modeling because the male model industry being so small and the few photographers interested in it would undoubtedly have led him to work with Weber again, and he said he'd rather stop everything than ever go through anything similar with him ever again.
As far as a lawsuit is concerned, this is indeed a pretty logical course of action to sue for monetary losses: he gave up an entire career path avoid being in the clutches of a predator.
Reading some of the responses here is a good reminder that most people only sympathize if it's a situation they can envision themselves in. You're in some state of alert on the street, in public transportation.. it's rare to be caught off-guard and not respond accordingly, or at least try. Guard goes down dramatically in a familiar setting, surrounded by trustworthy-looking people, or when you feel scared and intimidated.. that's when you enter shock and "freeze", you only realise what really happened long after it's happened, years in some cases, and you feel grossed out both by the incident and your own.. cowardice, what feels like it anyway, for failing to react fast and brave enough, you replay over and over what you could've done differently. All these scenarios are incomparable and hard to judge based on personal experience.. ultimately it's an attack and attacks are assimilated according to complex things like background, personality, you name it. So the 'sorry this happened to him, but if it was me! I would toughen up and punch him in the guts!'... ok when it happens to you, report back. Reminds me of my friend's "I could handle being ran over by a car, because I would immediately jump ON the car and roll to the side!". He was serious (seriously stupid..), he discussed extensively the physics of it, which, much like in this case, only projected HIS actions- not the car driver's.
Maybe due to my own experiences, I find this a bit sad but not extremely surprising.. and I had Charlie Rose on a pedestal and I will continue to watch the amazing interviews he's conducted. The fact that he was intimidating other people, taking advantage, causing trauma.. and the fact that other respectable-looking men did the same (Matt Lauer, Bruce).. maybe I have to rewire my brain and understand men in the same way we're all educated to see women, never exclusively defined by their profession and accomplishments, but a duality of professional but mostly sexual beings.. but maybe what would work wonders for all genders, is to truly question how we raise men.. the men we know. If someone told me my male cousins do this, I would be upset but not really shocked.. because I've seen them, from way back when we were kids, get away with things that were unacceptable for women. This latitude enables all sorts of deviances, same for what we all see and enforce as "manhood", which to me is the root of the problem.. men don't have it that easy either... it's still socially rare for men to be allowed to have softness, to express vulnerabilities, emotions, to convey beauty.. they're still measured by strength, financial accomplishments, power, honor, penis.. and you will see men trying to live up to that on a daily basis, no matter the cost or how unnatural it feels for them.. and then bottling up (because it's not really masculine to talk about it) anger when they fail in one or all of these categories and feel emasculated. I can see how they repeatedly reach the conclusion that maybe power and strength might be able to do the trick when it comes to penis and honor, especially when it's validated with a yes in many cases.
I don't really think burning to the ground someone's career is the way to go or get even with what they've done anyway.. I believe a legal process (such as what this guy's doing), long-term rehabilitation, community service, financial penalty proportional to their income on behalf of the victim but mostly to the city (housing projects, infrastructure- you propagated through force and power a vicious dynamic and generated long-term costs to the victims and the community), plus regulation in business within fashion, opening investigations on agencies and subjecting them to transparency.. they're all more effective ways for the victim to have some kind of peace over the incident and for society as a whole. When we try to expel these people from society like they've done something horrific and foreign to our morals, we're just vilifying a face, which is easier because we just get to say 'ew gross' 'horrible man, never want to see his pictures again!' and point fingers, without any accountability as a society.
Finally, because profession and sexuality can often manage without each other, so can the contributions or disasters or odd combinations or strict lines we've made with both. It would be stupid for a library to say they're going to condemn the legacy of, I don't know, William Burroughs. Patriarchy has allowed men to think of, bring into action and get away with f*cked up things and the further you go back in time, the worse it gets; much of the documented human existence in arts was founded on abuse. The biggest reward would be not to dissect and disapprove every fragment of someone's work, but making sure the revaluation of patriarchy goes into our education programs and is not just a viral hashtag.
wrote a book, sorry (but not really).
There’s no "diminishing" his allegations. There’s a reasonable— and perfectly prudent suggestion of an inquiry to Jason's motives with a lawsuit at this time in an extremely sensitive climate regarding all sexual assault allegations. Please don’t get it twisted.
And it’s exactly this type of unquestionable “support” for those coming forward as sexual assault plaintiffs, with absolutely no interest in hearing from the defendants (but rather, instant condemnation), that instantly destroys lives and careers. It’s no difference than not too long ago, gay men were instantly condemned as deviants, mentally-ill and pedophiles that will come for your little boys because they they’re "those" disgusting homosexuals (and many around the world still feel that way today).
Sometimes, just sometimes, people are willing compliances to behaviours and activities that may be against their personal— and better moral judgement because of social pressure and/or opportunistic context. The fashion industry, being a sexually liberal world, can and will bring out the best— and worst in some people… And only after the fact, some may regret their actions as a wiling participant. I have that experience— both as a participant, and as an initiator. I sympathize with both sides. And I also take responsibility as an adult. If your agency is treating you like an escort, and the photographer is violating your space and body, do something about it then. Not over 3 years later through a lawsuit.
There was a case here in Toronto just a couple of years ago in which Jian Ghomeshi, a high profile personality was accused of these horrendous sexual violations and assaults by a woman he dated. Others eventually spoke out against him and it became a witchhunt resulting in his dismissal form his employment. When the details of the case were finally revealed in court, he was acquitted of all charges. (He kept emails from 12 years ago of him and the plaintiff detailing their mutual flirtatious attitudes--- and not at all the abusive one she accused him of towards her.) But the damage was already done to his persona and professional reputation. What goes on between consenting adults, as chauvinistic and unacceptable as it may be to some, is exactly a private matter between consenting adults, and the women that don’t mind men like Jian. And I’m sure some people don’t care that his professional reputation has been damaged, since they don’t care for his “perversity” and “macho” attitude. I understand there’s a fine line between consent and manipulation/exploitation: It’s just scary how some can and have blurred/confused the lines between what is morally-unexceptable with what can be eventually be a new age in puritanical witchhunts and witchburnings.
Yikes. That sounds very much like this story.
I don't think anyone is saying that Bruce Weber or any other accused shouldn't be given their dues, to defend themselves against what they're being accused of. Also, the idea that this guy shouldn't have sued for monetary gain is absurd. He gave up his career, he felt violated. Unless you've been there, and until recently, I hadn't been, you truly can't know what that feels like. Do people in here believe that the women coming forward with allegations of sexual assault against all these men in Hollywood, politics, media, and other industries, aren't going to sue for monetary gain? Think again! Someone mentioned Lupita's written piece earlier and while yes, she isn't suing for financial gain, she's in a totally different category from all these other people. Her career has flourished and she's financially secure. She doesn't need to sue anyone for money.
For those who say the guy is being opportunistic because of the current climate, well of course he is! What better time than now to come forward with what he experienced? The women who came forward provided that pathway for him and other men to also come forward because everyone is listening. Not to sound like I'm begging for pity for men, but it hasn't been easy for men either. We also experience things, but can't come forward because society judges us by different standards. "Oh, poor you, a woman wanted to f*ck you?" "You p*ssy, you wimp, you're a girl." All used to describe men who come forward when things happen to them. No guy, especially one who identifies as heterosexual will admit to being assaulted by another man. What if the one who assaulted him claims that he was ok with it, enjoyed it even?
I remember years ago, there was a case where one man raped another. When the victim reported him to the authorities, the rapist claimed that the victim enjoyed it because he got an erection during the act. Apparently he was never taught how the body works.
Anyway, I'm saying this, I do not think it's fair to judge Jason (the plaintiff) because he chose to sue for financial gain or because he chose to do it "now," because the media is saturated with these stories. Just think about what it must have taken for him to come forward with this story, especially as a man who "appears to be heterosexual" based on his Instagram feed and as a man who is trying to build a career in Hollywood.
However, legally speaking, this is bound to be an uphill battle for the model. The availability of evidence is close to none. His statements are merely self-serving. They’re impeachable. He really needs to find some way to establish his claim. A video perhaps? A photo? Witnesses?
Bruce Weber was the first person I thought of after the "news" from Terry came out. Although his photographs were always beautiful it really made me think of what happened behind the scenes for all those shoots. Especially because he is 3 times the age of the models. This obsession with the young athletic type body he's into sort of makes you think what goes through his mind when he shoots those guys. Now I feel awful every time I saw an ed by him with high school boys in them... They could of been victims too!